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General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Dennis Glazener on May 04, 2014, 12:29:48 AM

Title: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: Dennis Glazener on May 04, 2014, 12:29:48 AM

A friend of mine ran across this family rifle and no one seems to know much about it other than its about 40 caliber. It appears to have been built as a half stock. I thought it unusual to have a full blown patchbox on a rifle that appears to be a fairly late build. Anyone see anything that might give clues to a maker or locale where it may have originated.
Dennis

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Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: Dennis Glazener on May 04, 2014, 02:10:48 AM

I meant to add that for a wild guess I would guess southwest VA with that trigger guard and cheekrest, but that's nothing but a guess.

Am going to throw in another thing I just noticed, the lock bolt going through from the cheek side, probably threaded into the breech plug bolster. I have a half stock with similiar lock and it done the same way. Gerald Neaves told me he had seen similiar treatment to rifles made up around Troutville VA
Dennis

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: Bob Roller on May 04, 2014, 02:32:50 AM

Very interesting rifle.I like the lock and bolster.
Speaking of locks,does anyone know Mark Loudenslager.
I am getting a J^S Hawken lock ready for him and my
E mail to him came back to me.Any help is muchly appreciated.

Bob Roller

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: Avlrc on May 04, 2014, 03:25:37 AM

The inlay on the cheek piece is very similar to one on an Alexander Applebay rifle pictured  on page 114 "Gunsmiths of West Virginia".
http://hampshirecountylongrifles.blogspot.com/search?q=applebay

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: galamb on May 04, 2014, 03:45:31 AM

This is a rather poor/fuzzy picture of a (Levy) Biddle rifle.

The Biddle family (father and at least a couple sons) started out in Chambersburg PA and relocated to Tuscarawus Co. Ohio at the start of the war of 1812.

The trigger guard looks very close and the sideplate is certainly similar. While the cheek piece is eastern style on this example I do have at least one other pic of a rifle by George Biddle (one of the sons) with a beavertail style.

However, the patchbox and cheek side inlays look nothing like any I have seen on any of the Biddle rifles.

But perhaps a clue -

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Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: Tanselman on May 04, 2014, 09:51:25 AM

The barrel band at the breech, animal inlay (horse) in rear butt, what appears to be a brass under-rib, along with a cherry appearing stock, seem to point toward a possible New York, or New England, origin. The side plate, while similar to some used in Ohio, also appears on some New York rifles. Can we get a better idea of what the stock wood is...is it cherry???   Shelby Gallien

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: MGillman on May 04, 2014, 05:19:01 PM

Looks similar to the Samuel Lafayette Click thread rifle.

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: Dennis Glazener on May 05, 2014, 01:18:55 AM

I checked with my friend and he said that his guess would be cherry.
Dennis

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: Nate McKenzie on May 05, 2014, 03:11:16 AM

The sway-bellied stock "sways"  me toward New York.

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: MGillman on May 05, 2014, 08:45:26 PM

Some later Southwest Virginia Blackstone and that ill sway to the stock. There is little known on most Southwest Virginia rifles from what I understand

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: MGillman on May 06, 2014, 01:14:05 AM

Halfstocks*

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: Habu on May 06, 2014, 02:50:55 AM

Quote from: Nate McKenzie on May 05, 2014, 03:11:16 AM

The sway-bellied stock "sways"  me toward New York.

That was my thought too, as soon as I saw the buttstock. 

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: Dennis Glazener on May 07, 2014, 04:31:08 PM

Quote from: Avlrc on May 04, 2014, 03:25:37 AM

The inlay on the cheek piece is very similar to one on an Alexander Applebay rifle pictured  on page 114 "Gunsmiths of West Virginia".
http://hampshirecountylongrifles.blogspot.com/search?q=applebay

I took a look at Alexander Applebay rifle pictured (page 114 in first edition, page 4 in the second edition) in Dr. Whisker's "Gunsmiths of West Virginia" book shown on the Hampshirecountylongrifles.blogspot here:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AmQMiQcOWzI/UwvJT29H48I/AAAAAAAAAjY/cPtjpcBT_gI/s1600/02-24-2014+05;33;01PM.JPG and the inlay is almost identical to the unknown rifle. Dr. Whisker's book lists Alexander Applebay and his two sons as being Ohio gunmaker's. The oldest son was born in 1863 and the other one in 1865 so its possible that the rifle, which appears to be a late percussion, may have been made by any one of the three Applebay's.

All this plus the Biddle Ohio rifle showing similarities makes Ohio the likely area of origin.

When I contacted my friend he said that makes sense, the family that owns it originally came from the Ohio area.

I think that pretty well ID's this rifle. Thanks for the help.

Dennis

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: galamb on May 08, 2014, 12:24:50 AM

Who needs CSI when you have ALR  ;D

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: Dennis Glazener on May 08, 2014, 01:45:36 AM

Quote from: galamb on May 08, 2014, 12:24:50 AM

Who needs CSI when you have ALR  ;D

Hey, I like that!
Dennis

Title: Re: Interesting rifle but very little known about it
Post by: GrampaJack on May 08, 2014, 11:41:17 PM

The Ohio books have the same picture as the W. Virginia book plus the advertisement.  There is a second picture of a rifle with a very different design patch box and inlays. He worked in Washington county so the W. Virginia connection is clear. In looking in the book I noticed a rifle made by Lemuel Brown that has a similar patch box.  Must have been a common one in that area. JacK