AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Mike Brooks on July 10, 2014, 04:07:51 PM
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I need a 3 1/2" long 8x32 lock bolt with a 1/2" head. Can anybody make me one?
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Go to Loew's and buy some threaded rod. :D
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How much money ya' got?
Can you use a 10-32 that size? I may have some of those right here.
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you could try running a die over a piece of drill rod and then tig weld the head on seperately
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Mike,
I've made some before, they are fake but work well.
I cut a 3/16 wafer off a piece of 1/2" bar stock drilled and tapped an 8/32 in the center and brazed the backside. Then ground the head to final thickness (about 5/32") Slightly rounded the edges and filed the slot. It's been in service for over 15 years.
Kevin
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I'll make you one Mike. I just sent two special order screws to elkiller. Send me your mailing address via email dtaylorsapergia@gmail.com
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What kind of head does this odd screw need? I turned one just to see if I still could.
I used a support bearing in the tailstock chuck and a piece of 12L14 left over from a lead screw
that I made for this machine I just made the screw on.
Bob Roller
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Thanks all, I got a wacky machinist lined up to make it now.
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You could take a bar of 1 1/2" steel and turn it down to diameter, then weld the head on it.
What a great forum. Everyone jumps over backwards to help out.
T
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...and send me your mailing address....
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oops, you said you were looking for a wacky machinist, not a sane one. :D
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oops, you said you were looking for a wacky machinist, not a sane one. :D
....I think you qualify... :D
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oops, you said you were looking for a wacky machinist, not a sane one. :D
....I think you qualify... :D
Tom was the first name that came to my mind. ::)
David
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I've been making my sidenails by forge welding heads on rod and then turning the heads and filing to shape.
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Mike, what is this screw for???. I'll make it, if I know the specks, length of thread, ect. If made out of hot rolled, cold rolled or wrought iron. If made out of wrought iron, I have to charge you. Mail me of line, no charge for the other.
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Why in the world would you weld on a head, or turn a screw from huge piece of rod? You make a lock nail just like you make a nail. You forge out a slightly tapered rod, stick it in a header (a flat steel plate with a hole a little bigger than you want your nail and screw to be) until it stops; note the position; cut your rod just above that point (almost but not all the way through); put the nail/screw blank back in the hole, break off the rod by bending, then hammer out your head. This is all done in one heat after the bulk of the nail or screw has been forged. It all takes about 30 seconds. Then you can file the blank or put it in your lathe at that point with a lot of work saved. It doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough to hold the lock in the stock. Look at some of the originals. It only has to be roughly round at the threaded part. Most of these are pretty crude, not even straight. ;)
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Not a machinist, don't have a forge
I go to hardware and buy stove bolts.
File off the square under the head, file off the zinc coating. If bolt is a bit too large in diameter, file FILE it down a bit & thread it with a die & die stock. Use a drop of cutting oil
Definitely does not match the CNC precision of contemporary rifles.
Comparable to many of the original Pennsylvania long rifles, I'd say
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I agree with Mr. Kelly, I use stove bolts for much of my lock work.
The round head is more than large enough for most lock bolts.
And to turn the shank down to appropriate size is easy work.
Garage sales often have old un-plated bolts. I grab as many as I can, whenever I find them.
Removing the zinc plating is a bit of a challenge to get all the plating off, so that they blue well.
It is doable, but I prefer the un-plated bolts when I find them.
Fred
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"File the SQUARE off under the head"?. That is a carriage bolt. Stove bolts have a rounded head with a slot that looks like the Grand Canyon and are frequently all thread.Someone recommended 5/32 drill rod for an 8x32 screw. That is a proper diameter but it seldom threads well(not that it has to). I made some 8x32 all thread recently from 12L14 recently and it looked fine and I am assuming it worked.
I made a 4" long 8x32 yesterday and turned the first 3/8"to .139 and used a small insert with a .140 hole in the tail stock chuck as a support and the easily turned the long shank and then ran a die over it and it's ready to go. Just WHAT on a muzzle loader needs a screw that long?Sounds like a throttle link screw on an old car.
Bob Roller
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I have a lathe, and it's much easier for me to turn out a screw on the lathe than it is to turn on the forge, unpset a head, reduce the shank, size and thread. And I'm sure it's easier for an accomplished smith to bang out a screw, but I lack proficiency at the forge. I'm all burns and bandaids when it comes to that. So I'll stick with the my lathe. :D
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Just WHAT on a muzzle loader needs a screw that long?Sounds like a throttle link screw on an old car.
Actually, once I really measured, the bolt only needed to be 2 1/2" long. It's going on a rather large Hudson Valley gun that I have been working on for 16 years.
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Wow! It will be an antique when you finish it!!!
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Tim, it takes one to make one.
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Yeah, yeah - CARRIAGE bolt
frequently on this site someone gives the email address for a source of un-plated screws & I ass-u-me bolts.
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www.blacksmithbolt.com
Carry pretty well everything unplated.
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I have a lathe, and it's much easier for me to turn out a screw on the lathe than it is to turn on the forge, unpset a head, reduce the shank, size and thread. And I'm sure it's easier for an accomplished smith to bang out a screw, but I lack proficiency at the forge. I'm all burns and bandaids when it comes to that. So I'll stick with the my lathe. :D
I totally agree with this!
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I have a lathe, and it's much easier for me to turn out a screw on the lathe than it is to turn on the forge, unpset a head, reduce the shank, size and thread. And I'm sure it's easier for an accomplished smith to bang out a screw, but I lack proficiency at the forge. I'm all burns and bandaids when it comes to that. So I'll stick with the my lathe. :D
Tom, I suspect that you have a better lathe than I do. ;) If you don't have a substantial metal lathe or milling machine, then forging becomes an essential part of machining a part or tool. Also, I have a gas forge. It is push-button start and only takes about fifteen minutes for it to come up to temperature. Just about anything I need to heat to red-hot goes in the forge. It is usually a waste of time to try to use a propane or MAPP torch to heat a part compared to the forge. Actually, I just got a nice little propane/oxy torch for soldering and brazing. The old propane and MAPP torches are going in the next yard sale. I will either use the forge or the little torch. I use the forge for brazing large objects like butt pieces. I just relined my forge and added an combination tool rest and anvil for welding light weight items close to the front opening of the forge. The only problem with a forge is that it can be very hot work. ;) Forging that anvil/tool rest out of 9"x 6" x1/4" plate, hurt.
Mark
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TOW has these listed but only 2.375" long.
MBS has them at 2" long but since they claim to make them in house they might make a few of longer length for you.
Dave Dolliver
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I do have a decent lathe. That, plus 12 L 14, and I can make that screw in 1/2 hour, less time if I make multiples.
A lathe for gunsmithing must have a 1 3/8 thru spindle hole. You don't need a long bed, 20" between centers is plenty, as for most barrel work, the barrel will go thru the spindle and the part you're working on will be near the chuck face. In cutting breech threads, the whole barrel will go thru the spindle hole, with just 1" or so of barrel sticking out of the chuck. If you are going to turn barrels, you need a long bed.
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I do have a decent lathe. That, plus 12 L 14, and I can make that screw in 1/2 hour, less time if I make multiples.
Sounds like we need to synchronize our watches men and put the machinist's in one corner and the blacksmith's in the opposite corner and see who can reign supreme in the great ALR lock bolt making contest. :D
David
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I could forge the bolt in reasonable enough time. Just don't make me take photos of it and get them posted on here. That's where it starts getting really slow! ;D
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Thanks for the tip Bob on turning a long skinny bolt. One of those "I should have thought of that!"
J.B.
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Wow! It will be an antique when you finish it!!!
Bought a 72" barrel from Ben Coogle in 1998. It sat around for many years untill I found a Rifle Shoppe doglock for sale on this board. I had Fred Miller inlet the barrel into a very curly piece of maple. Then it sat around for a number of years again. Then in a spurt of inspiration I stocked it up and shaped the buttstock and left the forend square. I have just had another inspirational moment (bought a '51 Ford truck and have to get paid for) and have now shaped the forestock and have begun to cut the upper and lower fore stock moldings, that's 21' of molding if you add it up! :o
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...... Removing the zinc plating is a bit of a challenge to get all the plating off, so that they blue well. It is doable, but I prefer the un-plated bolts when I find them.
Fred
Outside or in a well ventilated area, put the plated screw in some Tidy-Bowl toilet cleaner for about 10 minutes, then rinse with water. Takes the plating right off. Other brands may work. There's some kind of acid in the toilet cleaner but I don't remember the type.
-Ron
-Ron
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There's some kind of acid in the toilet cleaner but I don't remember the type.
-Ron
Most toilet bowl cleaners have hydrochloric acid in them but I can't say what Tidy-Bowl has in it..
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I do have a decent lathe. That, plus 12 L 14, and I can make that screw in 1/2 hour, less time if I make multiples.
A lathe for gunsmithing must have a 1 3/8 thru spindle hole. You don't need a long bed, 20" between centers is plenty, as for most barrel work, the barrel will go thru the spindle and the part you're working on will be near the chuck face. In cutting breech threads, the whole barrel will go thru the spindle hole, with just 1" or so of barrel sticking out of the chuck. If you are going to turn barrels, you need a long bed.
Tom,
I know exactly what I need. Grizzly has several lathes they have made in China just for gunsmiths. I drool over them often. However, I just don't have the spare $5000 for one. Instead I am using one of their 7"x12" lathes. It is better than nothing, but it isn't going to take much of a cut off anything.
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Keep your eyes peeled for a South Bend 10". That machine has a 1 3/8" thru hole. They are around, but you have to be proactive. Most of the old iron has been melted down.
The 9" swing lathes have a 3/4" thru hole, which is not very handy, except for making screws.
Craftsman (Sears) made some decent lathes in the larger sizes, once upon a time.
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I have a 12"Craftsman lathe and it also has a 3/4" spindle bore.The 12" was made
only for Sears and never sold under the Atlas label.I also have an Atlas 10F lathe
and it also has the small bore spindle.This one is a real relic and still has babbit bearings
that I keep full of STP and bit of oil.It came with a bed turret and several really fine chucks.
I paid $50 for it in 1974,bought a new motor and reversing switch and have used it ever since.
I have thought of buying one of the modern lathes with a big bore but am thinking now it
would be of no real benefit to me and the idea of Chinese machines is a turn off to me and
a lot of the old American makes are harder to get parts for than a Duesenberg car so I think
I'll stay with my limited use relics and be content because I can still get repair parts even if
they are captive market at the highest possible prices like the $300 cross feed nut for my
Clausing 8520 milling machine.
Bob Roller
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Keep your eyes peeled for a South Bend 10". That machine has a 1 3/8" thru hole. They are around, but you have to be proactive. Most of the old iron has been melted down.
The 9" swing lathes have a 3/4" thru hole, which is not very handy, except for making screws.
Craftsman (Sears) made some decent lathes in the larger sizes, once upon a time.
I found an old 11 inch Logan lathe with a collet drawbar, its about 24-26 inches between centers. It has 1 3/8" hole through the spindle. Almost didn't buy it since I wanted to turn and thread barrels between centers. A friend talked me into it and showed me how to center the barrel through the head stock, am glad I didn't get one of the long bed lathes now. This one does anything I need to do on a lathe. Have never had to use the steady rest that came with the lathe.
Dennis
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Dennis,
Are spare parts still available for the Logan? I have heard they are good lathes but if no back up is to be had then it could be a problem.I used Bill Large's South Bend lathes but only on a very rare occasion for myself.
I did a very few barrel installations on breech loaders and they were Sharps and Rolling Blocks.
Bob Roller
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I use a 9" south bend for all kinds of jobs. I turned a new tumbler for an antique lock Al Martin used in a rifle, several screws, an 8" face plate for a disc sander, and other odd jobs. But For barrel work, nothing will surpass a headstock with a 1" plus through hole. I have a friend who makes smoothbore barrels with dom steel, and he uses a steady rest and a taper attachment. The work is super, and the barrels are real shooters. I also have an Atlas 10" lathe I am considering making riser blocks for the headstock and tail stock in order to make screw tip horns, unless I decide to sell the lathe first! My "big" girl is an old Fay and Eagan pattern makers lathe. It has 12" swing and 6' between centers, wood turning only. Made many windsor chairs with it, as well as some tilt top tables. Old iron is neat to find, restore, and use...They don't make em like they used to!...Dan
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I learned on a 9" South Bend. It was a very nice little machine. The South Bends in good shape don't come up that often and they go fast. Most of the ones I see come up on Craigslist are junk, not well cared for, usable machines. I keep looking now and then.
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Dennis,
Are spare parts still available for the Logan? I have heard they are good lathes but if no back up is to be had then it could be a problem.I used Bill Large's South Bend lathes but only on a very rare occasion for myself.
I did a very few barrel installations on breech loaders and they were Sharps and Rolling Blocks.
Bob Roller
Bob,
When I bought it probably 35 years ago there was a gear stripped, one of the back gears. The man that sold it to me told me he would buy/provide me a gear for it. I found it with no problems (I think from Powermatic) but the cost was so high the man (a mechanist) told me if I would send him the stripped gear and pay for a carbide cutting tool he would weld up and recut the gear. He did and I never had anything to replace since then but a main drive belt which most any supply house can make up. Watch it break something tomorrow!
Dennis
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There's some kind of acid in the toilet cleaner but I don't remember the type.
-Ron
-Ron
[/quote]
Phosphoric acid is common in toilet cleaners etc...
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Caustic soda (a..k.a. lye; sodium hydroxide; Draino) also dissolves zinc & is a practical way to remove galvanizing. Let the thing soak for a while, hours whilst you go do something else.
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Oh, Oh, I found a cleaver machinist!!!! Darn, never mind, he got away. He's pretty cleaver, but I'll keep an eye out :o!
Robby
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Posts: 15515
Re: Looking for a clever machinist
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2014, 08:21:11 AM »
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I have a lathe, and it's much easier for me to turn out a screw on the lathe than it is to turn on the forge, unpset a head, reduce the shank, size and thread. And I'm sure it's easier for an accomplished smith to bang out a screw, but I lack proficiency at the forge. I'm all burns and bandaids when it comes to that. So I'll stick with the my lathe.
I have a telephone (and a lathe and a bunch of other machines) so I call the apropriate person and order what I need, give them a credit card no. then carry on with my work. Makeing a bolt is maybe fun for some on here but it is so ineficient, so wasteful of time, so anal, just buy a bolt be done with it and move on to the important stuff like arcitecture, carving and engraving that isn't available commercially. The guy gets three pages of guys trying to tell him how to make a bolt, that he is nutz to buy one. He doesn't want to make one he is fishing for someone to make or sell him one. Do you have one to sell him,? yes or no.
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Inefficient is when wire is machined from bar stock.I make all my own screws for whatever application I need them for. Mostly locks and set triggers.The quality I want isn't available to me.Using 12L14 that is 3/8" in diameter and have an 8x32 cross bolt ready in about 7 minutes including the slot.
Bob Roller
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Brooks never asked how to make a bolt. He doesn't care to make one. By adding the word 'clever' to his request, four pages of 'clever' responses ensue.......
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Well, there's no doubt there's alot of folks here that are far more clever than I, and I'm glad for it. Thanks all for all of your help. ;D
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But........... did you get your bolt?????? ;D ;D
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...your bolt is in the mail....
Ya, SURE it is! :D
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Was a clever machinist ever located? After all this, I hope so.
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i got my 2 screws from Taylor yesterday
they are great.!!
thanks so much.!!
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Just another reason to appreciate this forum. Where else can someone ask about making a semi custom bolt and get four pages of offers to help, advise or just throw in their relevant opinion?
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But........... did you get your bolt?????? ;D ;D
Yes I did. It even works!