AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Topknot on July 11, 2014, 02:41:56 AM
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To all the experienced builders!!
Where can I purchase quality drillbits , (numbered) and counter sinks as related to gun building? What is the proper degree countersink that most of you use for steel and wood as pertains to gunbuilding, and what type and brand name do you find most useful?
As soon as I get my 2 air conditioners installed in my workshop, I plan on starting , after 2 or three years of studying and watching videos.
Thanks in advance,
topknot
administraters, if i posted in the wrong forum, feel free to move.
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I frequent a particular Ace Hardware store close to where I live and they stock all the drill sizes and even the long, 6-8 inch long drills in many sizes. What he doesnt have he has resources to get what I have asked him to get. Brownells also has many drill,tapps, and dies for gunmakers.
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Until now, I've used 82 deg countersinks to seat my tang screw(s). That's the angle that commercial screws come in. For the most part, this system has worked just fine, but every now and again, if the angle of the drilled hole through the wrist is off just a tad, the countersink head just fits badly. In my last build, a Hawken rifle, I used a counterbore - actually a centre drill for a lathe, and made my own screws to match. The angle is a little steeper (don't know the precise angle in degrees) but it made fitting the tang screws so much cleaner and more professional looking (thanks Jim Kibler for that!) The interesting thing about countersink and counterbores is they come by a number system of cataloguing...3, 4, 5, etc. rather than 5/16", 3/8", etc. As far as I can determine, there is no counterbore that measures 3/8" in the head size...sucks. At least this is my experience here in the Great White North.
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I have used MSC at work and personal needs and am satisfied. You can order on-line at http://www.mscdirect.com/?cid=ppc-google-Brand+--+E_scrIm3aUZ_msc%20tools_e_49409565904_c_S&mkwid=scrIm3aUZ|dc&pcrid=49409565904&002=2167139&004=8097513664&005=2467418802&006=49409565904&007=Search&008=&025=c&026=
I use both jobber and stub length drills. The stub are stiffer and do a good job starting holes. English countersink is 82 deg. Metric is 90. Not sure what comericial longrifle screws are made at. I recommend 2 flute gun taps for through holes and 2 flute bottoming for blind holes. They are much harder to break then 3 or 4 flute taps. It won't be cheap
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I use stone set burrs.
They come in many measurements. Just measure the screw head, and match the girdle of the burr to that. They are HSS, and I use beeswax for lube.
So far so good.
Ebay, Rio, STullers, lots of places for them.
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You only need a few specific numbered drill bits if you're building locks or set triggers. Same with taps and dies...all I use is 8-32 and 10-32. If I was building locks I'd have a few others. Don't waste your money buying an expensive set of bits only to use two, which you will break and have to replace. You can get them lots of places, listed above. For wood, use any drill bit at Ace Hardware. I don't worry with getting the perfect drill bit for tapping trigger plates and lock plates, I just choose one that looks about right and it always is. I use a an old hand filed countersink I got off ebay that has irregularly spaced teeth and it works amazingly well, far better than any modern professionally made countersink, for tang bolts and buttplate screws.
Don't overthink stuff. You can do great work with very simple tools, and fancy tools won't help.
My advice is for longrifle work only as that's all I do. I don't build steam engines or doll houses or other stuff, so my tool kit is very focused and frankly not terribly versatile.
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Oh man, Ryan is way off. You need two of have every tool made for wood and metal. Then you add onto the shop, twice. Then you build and furnish a Blacksmith shop buy a heat treat oven and on and on and on..... I'm a bit of a tool freak maybe???? ;D
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I have had great luck with 82 degree Weldon sountersinks - clean cuts and no chatter. However, be sure and buy WELDON countersinks as the cheap knockoffs from China are hopeless!
J.B.
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My advice to those who ask this question:
Go to "Harbor Freight" and by a complete set of numbered, lettered, and fraction drills; often cost less than $50. Sure they're not of high quality and will break.
Some you will never use but you will HAVE them should the need arise. Others you will use quite often and when they break, replace with higher quality drills that last longer and stay sharp longer.
Some time ago I found a couple of piloted counter sinks at MSC. They've been very useful especially for tang bolts. Haven't seen them lately.
Dave Dolliver
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I've not had good luck buying drill bits from local suppliers, and eventually I gave up on buying "new" drill bits qnd countersinks unless I just have-to-have-it right now. Instead, I buy surplus tooling (by the pound!) from a local factory. Sure, you get a strange assortment and have to figure out what to do with the insert tooling, but the drill bits and countersinks work well.
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I buy reamers, drills, etc from ENCO. Good quaily at reasonable prices.
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My advice to those who ask this question:
Go to "Harbor Freight" and by a complete set of numbered, lettered, and fraction drills; often cost less than $50. Sure they're not of high quality and will break.
Some you will never use but you will HAVE them should the need arise. Others you will use quite often and when they break, replace with higher quality drills that last longer and stay sharp longer.
Some time ago I found a couple of piloted counter sinks at MSC. They've been very useful especially for tang bolts. Haven't seen them lately.
Dave Dolliver
That's a smart way to do it...
This is the best kind of countersink to get.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mayhew-315-Rose-Countersink-Brace-Shank-5-8-NOS-USA-/231280637024?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d9667460 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mayhew-315-Rose-Countersink-Brace-Shank-5-8-NOS-USA-/231280637024?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d9667460)
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I buy all my drill bits, countersinks, couter-bores, reamers, taps, dies, etc... from MSC. They have warehouses all over and delivery is usually next day. I bought a complete set of drills (number, letter, fractional) from MSC. I also have lots of spares. The little drills come in packs of a dozen and I stock 1/16" and 5/64". As to countersinks, I mostly use 82 degree coutersinks, but I also have needed a 90 degree. I have a 82 degree countersink mounted in a file handle that my grandfather gave me many, many years ago. I use that the most. I also have a couple I can put in a drill.
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Guys, you have all been very helpful and I want to thank each and every one of you for your time and knowledge.
Most appreciative,
topknot