AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Stuartg on July 11, 2014, 10:55:21 PM
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After slimming the lock panels down, I'm at the point of whiskering/scraping and notice that when I apply water there are areas with a slight "blackish" tint to them - even after scraping and sanding...here is a pic of the stock wet. You have to look really close to see it, but at least I notice it a bit. Is this normal? Does it get covered up when I stain or exaggerate it?(doing a reddish brown Danlger stain). I've spent a couple days whiskering and scraping. When it's dry, it looks perfect. How do your stocks look before staining? Thanks!
Here it is wet:
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2F68b50b46-5b90-4610-832b-d78b36ab4215_zps5ed2aa11.jpg&hash=7db7e33f4712844dc1a8b7763d3bdcfdd582dc7d) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/68b50b46-5b90-4610-832b-d78b36ab4215_zps5ed2aa11.jpg.html)
Here it is dry:
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2Fimage4_zps81f487b4.jpeg&hash=78e70c36900e83e7fc9e8a3fa8c059f226ad1120) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/image4_zps81f487b4.jpeg.html)
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From the pics that looks to be a nice, NORMAL, piece of Maple to me. Nothing I can see would worry me before applying stain.
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Awesome, thanks Graham!
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looks normal to me I use dangler red a lot youll be happy when finished
good luck
paul
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You mentioned you sanded the stock, it could be the little dirt film that was on the surface, sanding dust collected in the corners, like around the beavertails and lock panels.
It won't matter at all.
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I like to give my stocks a wipe down with lacquer thinner while they are still in the white. I do this periodically during the build to keep things clean. Just make sure when you wipe down the stock that the rag you use will not bleed.
David
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Cotton won't dissolve. Use a faded light-colored old holey 100% cotton T shirt.
I use acetone to wash the stock just before AF stain. I want to make sure there are no oils on the surface that will prevent the stain from taking. Like Dave R sez, a solvent wash also takes off dirt.
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I sure do appreciate the advice gents! I was starting to get a bit frustrated with the spots, but glad to know it's normal. I'll grab some of my wife's acetone and give her a go!
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Check the wifes acetone for mineral oil. Some fingernail polish removers contain oil.
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Hey Stuart,
I’m just guessing here, based on a similar experience of my own, but I can’t help but to notice the piece of black sandpaper in your photo. I also can’t help but to notice that those pieces of paper have some bare spots showing.
I don’t mean to insult you, but is it possible that you used a black sandpaper that LOOKED like wet-or-dry paper, but which was really not suited for wet work? I only ask because I did the same thing some years back, and made a mess that took a while to clean up.
3M (and maybe some other companies as well) makes a black paper, that looks like wet-or-dry paper, but it’s really only for dry sanding. If you sand wood wet with that kind of sandpaper, it will leave a residue of black glue and grit on the wood. It can also leave tiny little pieces of grit embedded in the wood.
A mild blackish residue in the low spots is probably no big deal. As the other guys said, it will probably disappear under the stain. If you wanted a mildly aged finish, then that gets you headed in that direction anyway. (Maybe the acetone will help.)
BUT if the paper left little pieces of grit in the wood, that can become a big deal. If the light hits the stock just right, they will sparkle just like a piece of glitter on a high school cheerleader’s face. The only way I know to get them out is to put on a magnification visor or at least a strong pair of reading glasses, turn off the lights, then go over the stock closely and very carefully with a flashlight held at an angle (so as to reflect the light). If you do that and can see grit sparkling back at you, then you can pick it out, one grain at a time, with a very sharp needle.
I would also recommend you lay the stock down (on the kitchen counter for example), so that you can look at it very closely without holding it. Even the slight movement of your hands is enough to keep you from seeing the sparkle easily, but if you lay it down so that it is still, and then move the light over it, those little guys sparkle and shine like they are proud of themselves.
Might I also, while I’m at it, suggest that you do this while the wife and kids, and maybe dog as well, are either out of the house or at least well out of the way? Maybe some calming music in the background? ;)
Would grit like this show up in a stock out in the bright sun? I don’t know. But I would think that if you want it out, you have to get it out before you apply any varnish, etc. You cannot pick it out once you have glued it in! In my experience, I noticed it after I had applied stain. The contrast against the dark stain made it easy to see the sparkle, but it was a real bear to get it out and I basically had to rework the entire piece with scrapers so as to deal with the little picked marks in the wood, etc.
If, after this experience, you still like finishing by sanding and want to try wet sanding some more, then you might want to try 3M Wetordry ™ paper. It is available at auto supply stores, where it is sold for working on autobody repair. It is available in grits from 220 or so up through 1200. I use it quite a lot on metal, and it’s great stuff.
By the way, just before posting this I ran some tests with some old scraps of cheap black paper that I had from back when, and compared it to a test with some of the Wetordry ™ stuff in 220 and 400 grits. I tested both kinds of paper, first dry and then wet, on a scraps of curly red maple. It was just as I remembered. Black smudges and grit in the wood with the cheap stuff. No residue and no grit with the Wetordry ™ stuff.
Whet
PS: nice work on the beavertails!
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Good advice, Whetrock. Also thank you for doing a test with the different papers. Whet's warning about nail polish remover containing oil is worth taking note.
You can buy quarts of acetone in hardware stores. No issue with oils in it. Denatured Alcohol in quarts, too.
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Whet, thanks so much for the heads up on the sandpaper! Luckily I only used it when the stock was dry. When I wet the stock I used little scrapers and it seemed to remove most of the black stuff. I think it was dirt from my bench, etc. But now I'm starting to think that even with dry sanding small flakes of sand can be seen as a kind of dust...it could be a bit of that as well. Anyway, I'm going to take your advice and have a super close look for the glitter effect. Good catch, even if it's just dirt, you probably saved a future bonehead move. Very glad you chimed in.
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Yeah, you may not have much trouble then. That's good. I'd also recommend that you brush it well with a good stiff, natural bristle brush. I'd do that before checking it for glitter, anyway. Might as well knock off all you can first. And I find that it really helps to brush things I have sanded, anyway. Gets the dust out of the way so that I can see what's really there. Sometimes the dust acts kind of like wood filler, and hides the real surface. That might be okay, I guess, depending on how a guy plans to finish the piece. But especially with carving surfaces I think it's better to get it clean as you can. David Finck, who wrote an outstanding book on Wood Planes, also recommends vacuuming sanded surfaces. I haven't tried it yet, but it sounds like a worthwhile use of 10 minutes, esp when considering all else that has gone into getting it to that point!
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If you have a shop vac, use that with the soft brush attachment. That should get rid of the (specks) as well as any sanding dust.
MikeH
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Thanks everyone's input, I was able to get the dirty stuff out of there and applied my Danglers reddish brown last night and here she is:
Very happy with my first build. It's certainly not perfect, but at least it didn't end up as firewood!
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2Fimagejpg1_zps68dc869c.jpg&hash=966f317e291371af5a8c0c72abfb565d146a0ffe) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/imagejpg1_zps68dc869c.jpg.html)
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Once you get the varnish on... Watch it pop!!
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After a bath in tru-oil, here she is. I'll be hand rubbing in tru-oil for the next couple days. I'm leaving her in the white and letting it patina over time. Thanks for everyone's help!
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2Fimagejpg1_zps27f03ee9.jpg&hash=463e78c22cef92ba1e59b4264ff25a4b0693b21f) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/imagejpg1_zps27f03ee9.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2Fimagejpg2_zps6737b361.jpg&hash=c2850b6e0972df27d4393d339c61333a83cc0b98) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/imagejpg2_zps6737b361.jpg.html)
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Here's a few more. She ain't perfect, but for my first I'll taker her.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2F4A633467-9718-4E23-B6B8-F665AFA10A55_zpsyp155khk.jpg&hash=845c568dbfe99f132c73dd7d9138e72cc5737284) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/4A633467-9718-4E23-B6B8-F665AFA10A55_zpsyp155khk.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2F8933B823-F4EB-4455-88A1-A9F23EB1DE76_zpsj5rlp0ry.jpg&hash=040c065ae626e1d3409c821f5545008a4d749743) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/8933B823-F4EB-4455-88A1-A9F23EB1DE76_zpsj5rlp0ry.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2FC738D80E-55B1-4FBC-9BEA-2121C12464BC_zpsqbprjsbv.jpg&hash=6b0bb220ce7832448c3a6db1f1d80e7d71a9058e) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/C738D80E-55B1-4FBC-9BEA-2121C12464BC_zpsqbprjsbv.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2FCF45CB79-54E1-4842-95CF-7BE0D765F976_zpsruy1x3vk.jpg&hash=036ea7881efba94083b520e7fe3bd7f9252c0aa7) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/CF45CB79-54E1-4842-95CF-7BE0D765F976_zpsruy1x3vk.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2FAB22CB97-5013-47C0-BC21-C2798D7B577D_zpsjob6cpa2.jpg&hash=44e3f1609b2ac9ed70dcf842a149ad4c2a284301) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/AB22CB97-5013-47C0-BC21-C2798D7B577D_zpsjob6cpa2.jpg.html)
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Other than the lock being on the wrong side there's nothing wrong with that build Stuart! You done good!
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Thanks acorn!
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Stuart, nice job on the rifle, especially if it is your first. Looks like you did a fine job with your inletting and filing up of your trigger guard and other furniture. Was it from a blank or a precarve?
Curtis
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Thanks Curtis! It was from a pre-carve that I bought from Tip Curtis. One of these days I'll build up the courage to build one from a blank.
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Here are a couple after the first hand rubbed application of tru-oil:
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2F769CDD6B-1566-4F1D-BAFB-DDB8451A929B_zps7ugnucyx.jpg&hash=07ce79fbc5715420222c16124fbf8e7320b8713e) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/769CDD6B-1566-4F1D-BAFB-DDB8451A929B_zps7ugnucyx.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2FC009F7B7-28C6-4D41-8905-674EF67664FA_zpsomzbquus.jpg&hash=0184ad995a130f59eec3c7c8ac6633843e90f43b) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/C009F7B7-28C6-4D41-8905-674EF67664FA_zpsomzbquus.jpg.html)
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Looks very nice. Those long 'beaver tails' remind me of Bedford rifles. Nice narrow lock panels too!!
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I appreciate the kind words! I can't tell you how many times I drew those beaver tails on there, but just really liked the longer, slimmer look. Seemed to give it a more sleek look.
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Here are a couple pics in the natural light:
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2FC5F720F5-2B7C-4DCA-9AEE-15343542FE58_zps8nyafa1x.jpg&hash=fc50d41184e192b1eb17f2457098cc14c89c1946) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/C5F720F5-2B7C-4DCA-9AEE-15343542FE58_zps8nyafa1x.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp193%2FStuartgholmes%2FTip%2520Curtis%2520Kit%2FF9B95412-BBAA-4B6F-86D2-D3CDD1D66402_zpsqlvlfzhi.jpg&hash=bc4aa710728f9991d5405299738f02815da26bee) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Stuartgholmes/media/Tip%20Curtis%20Kit/F9B95412-BBAA-4B6F-86D2-D3CDD1D66402_zpsqlvlfzhi.jpg.html)
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NICE! As we in the south say "ya done good."
dave
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Thank ya Dave! I'm takin her shooting this weekend.
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That came out great. Your tang screw looks too big the way it is sitting up above the tang. I would either increase the size of the countersink, or chuck the screw in the drillpress and "turn" the screw a little smaller with a file. (I use the file on the underside shoulder of the screw)
Your architecture looks great for a first gun!
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I actually countersunk the tang bolt completely last night. There was a few loose ends I had to finish...sights, ramrod, finishing the barrel (which included countersinking the tang bolt).
Thanks for the complements. I look to improve the lock panels a bit on my next build. Not sure if I over think too much, but they are tricky for me.
I've got all my parts for a lefty Isaac Haines from Dunlap - good looking piece of wood to boot!
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you KNOW your driving amakiller up the wall with these rifles!!!! ;D
marc
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Well, he IS partly liable for creating the monster!
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...
By the way, just before posting this I ran some tests with some old scraps of cheap black paper that I had from back when, and compared it to a test with some of the Wetordry ™ stuff in 220 and 400 grits. I tested both kinds of paper, first dry and then wet, on a scraps of curly red maple. It was just as I remembered. Black smudges and grit in the wood with the cheap stuff. No residue and no grit with the Wetordry ™ stuff.
Whet
Well, it looks like I may have posted that last comment about the Wetordry product too quickly. Been helping my daughter with a plaque for mounting some antlers from a deer she shot a few years ago. Today she sanded the end grain of a piece of pine--sanded it dry--with a piece of the Wetordry 220 grit, and had a lot of grey dust build up in the pores. Now I had not noticed any problem with this in sanding maple, but be warned anyway.
I guess what I'm saying is this: Test on a piece of scrap before you commit. And test on BOTH side grain and end grain. (Keep in mind that the curl in maple creates an "end grain" type effect as the grain structure winds in and out of the cut surface.)
Whetrock