AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: gondoix on August 09, 2014, 10:03:27 PM
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hello gents . i have an American Fowler i buy ed from one of the guys in my shooting club . the gun was rusty . so i had to remove it form the barrel but the problem is by doing that i did damage some of the signature on the barrel it read Allen n york . so i had to re cut the signature. technically I'm restoring old guns to get them in shooting condition . and to keep them for future generations. but now it comes to this problem there is an rib under the gun that needs to be re attached .
and well i want some more help to find some information about this one there is engraving on the lock triggerguard and butplate .
BTW i had to re letter the lettering how much does that destroy the value .
il give u some photos of the gun
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2F2larepc.jpg&hash=0cff8d56dfac911218d34bb7d727b186e947d9ec)
text of the gun before it was restored
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2F21jrg1v.jpg&hash=5b35c51d468708fa2171c42e3b37744154bcb861)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi58.tinypic.com%2F2lic6df.jpg&hash=c4e9350470e61b871bb7d144b371c91178b3f226)
before the restoration (https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2F2iha1w1.jpg&hash=95c8a43ccc1dffbf0a4610b122edbd8f7c015335)
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Sorry but I can't help you with the Fowler question but I see you are a new member currently living in Sweden and I wanted to welcome you to our forum. Good to have you join Americanlongrifles forums (ALR). I am sure one of our collector members will be able to assist you with your questions.
We have several other Swedish ALR members its good to see one more Swede with an interests in American muzzleloaders. Welcome!
Dennis Glazener
ALR Admin
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Sorry but I can't help you with the Fowler question but I see you are a new member currently living in Sweden and I wanted to welcome you to our forum. Good to have you join Americanlongrifles forums (ALR). I am sure one of our collector members will be able to assist you with your questions.
We have several other Swedish ALR members its good to see one more Swede with an interests in American muzzleloaders. Welcome!
Dennis Glazener
ALR Admin
thanks :)
of course its always fun with these old guns :) espacialy to shoot them :D
cheers gondoix :)
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Allen is an awfully common name. Sellers (American Gunsmiths) lists two of them in New York, both in about the right period. I don't use Sellers much because his work appears to be just a compendium of all the previous lists, copied without much regard for verification. Thus, while lots of it is good, everyone's earlier mistakes have been incorporated as well.
That said, I don't think it was made here. It has all the look of a Birmingham export product, retailed in New York. It is, however, quite early for a percussion gun. Those hammers with the wide flat face seem to date in the mid to late 1820s, perhaps as late as 1830. Its quite unusual to be able to date guns like this in anything less than a 20 year bracket but I've seen a few now that can be given a terminal date (because someone died or went out of business) and they all seem to fall into this time frame.
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gondoix
I would say this gun is Birmingham made and began life has flinter and full stocked dated 1800-1820 ,sometime it was converted too percussion using the drum and nipple principle and altered to a half stock which could been through the full stock been broken which was quite common .Are there any proof marks which would help
Feltwad
Enclosed is a stand of mostly Flintlock conversions That were full stocked
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi79.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj152%2FRamrod_2006%2FP1010013_zps9c78b111.jpg&hash=f4c9076ed0f6414b755f9921a3f56751ae1d530f) (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/Ramrod_2006/media/P1010013_zps9c78b111.jpg.html)
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Allen is an awfully common name. Sellers (American Gunsmiths) lists two of them in New York, both in about the right period. I don't use Sellers much because his work appears to be just a compendium of all the previous lists, copied without much regard for verification. Thus, while lots of it is good, everyone's earlier mistakes have been incorporated as well.
That said, I don't think it was made here. It has all the look of a Birmingham export product, retailed in New York. It is, however, quite early for a percussion gun. Those hammers with the wide flat face seem to date in the mid to late 1820s, perhaps as late as 1830. Its quite unusual to be able to date guns like this in anything less than a 20 year bracket but I've seen a few now that can be given a terminal date (because someone died or went out of business) and they all seem to fall into this time frame.
it has birmingham proof marks :) and ketland ones under the barrel :)
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gondoix
I would say this gun is Birmingham made and began life has flinter and full stocked dated 1800-1820 ,sometime it was converted too percussion using the drum and nipple principle and altered to a half stock which could been through the full stock been broken which was quite common .Are there any proof marks which would help
Feltwad
Enclosed is a stand of mostly Flintlock conversions That were full stocked
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi79.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj152%2FRamrod_2006%2FP1010013_zps9c78b111.jpg&hash=f4c9076ed0f6414b755f9921a3f56751ae1d530f) (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/Ramrod_2006/media/P1010013_zps9c78b111.jpg.html)
yes hte proof marks are from birmingham and ketland i think :) i post picture of them :)
but i dont think this one has been full stocked tough :) its been made in halfstock :) because well weight and it has the same setup as an half stocked hawken rifle :)
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(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2Fjj22p0.jpg&hash=92e2785cfaef3e40a12ee0786d1f2047033cc0e3)
proof marks
btw technicaly there should be an gun case for this gun that disapered years ago becasue its an fowler/case gun :) i found out XD
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gondoix
I would say this gun is Birmingham made and began life has flinter and full stocked dated 1800-1820 ,sometime it was converted too percussion using the drum and nipple principle and altered to a half stock which could been through the full stock been broken which was quite common .Are there any proof marks which would help
Feltwad
Enclosed is a stand of mostly Flintlock conversions That were full stocked
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi79.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj152%2FRamrod_2006%2FP1010013_zps9c78b111.jpg&hash=f4c9076ed0f6414b755f9921a3f56751ae1d530f) (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/Ramrod_2006/media/P1010013_zps9c78b111.jpg.html)
[/quote Maybe three out of five, but guess that qualifies as "MOSTLY".
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Don
Definitely four out of the five the second one is a sxs patchlock.
Feltwad