AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: George Roberts on October 18, 2014, 06:29:04 PM
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A friend inherited this pistol from his father, a very knowledgeable collector. The pommel has quite delicate and sophisticated engraving, but the rest of the engraving does not seem as good. The trigger guard is nailed on, the ramrod is part of the stock carving, and the frizzen does not appear to have ever been struck by a flint. The chiseled barrel is quite dramatic. This looks to me like it was made for the tourist trade, but where? India, Pakistan, Persia? It has been in the owner's possession for more than 40 years.
Thanks, George
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FP0PFTt8.jpg%3F1&hash=fcf80ba91e6e2b4a59a234677a6fb62778514afb)
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If that was made for the tourist trade, it must of been one heck of an important tourist :o. It is many notches above any tourist pistol I seen pictures of.
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George, the faux ramrod is the giveaway. These are referred to as Turkish pistols (Turkey had different borders in those days and it was often a generic term) Made in the style of western European military pistols. The 'Turks' preferred to carry separate ramrods but retained the appearance on the pistol. Usually, as here, well decorated but of lower build quality. However, they should still function well. Not sure about proof.
Hope that helps.
Peter.
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Avirc, Perhaps "tourist trade" was a little strong, but my impression was that whoever made the pistol seemed to be more concerned with appearance than with function.
Peter, Thank you for the information. It fits very well with the style of the pistol. I thought the metal work on the barrel was remarkably well done, but just a little unusual looking.
George
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I agree with Hammer - he beat me to saying Turkish. It's not a tourist gun in that it is still fully functional and was made to be used, much earlier than tourist guns as well. The tourist guns have pipes for barrels, lots of wire everywhere, and a mechanism that won't actually function. I'd love to see a close up of the lock. Occasionally they used high end European locks, but most the time they copied earlier European styles instead.
-Eric
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Make sure its not loaded! :o
Robby
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Okay. Well, now I am confused. The part that seems to fit better with the Turkish origin, is that the trigger guard is nailed on. There are two nails, one in the extension ahead of the bow, and one behind. I'm not saying the Germans couldn't have done that, but it seems more likely in the India, Persia, Turkey area. On the other hand, I'm not an expert on these things, and that's why I'm asking. The lock does have a bridled frizzen. Wish I had taken more pictures.
George
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Once again, we see a piece made in Germany for what they called the "Eastern Trade." There is some deviation, in various components, as we've seen in a previous piece, viewed here (!760-ish- mid. west museum) but stylistically the same. Nice to see one as well cared for and as complete as this one.
Collector - do you have any documentation or original sources that say many of these were made in Germany? I've seen so many more contemporary sources that call these "Turkish" pistols (or general Eastern Mediterranean), but I'd like to see evidence one way or another for where they were actually built. I'd like to call them for what they are and would like to know if they were indeed cheaply made in Europe for export.
-Eric
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Eric, I don't have, in hand, the proofs that you ask for, but had come across, some years back, a book on antique pistols that showed pages of these F/L pistols which referenced them as German export pistols for their 'Eastern Trade' markets. I own one of these pistols, but I didn't buy the book as I have no sustained interest in these pieces and I will gladly withdraw this and any further comment and yield to the many and more contemporary sources. Perhaps, someone, someday, will happen upon a verified source.
Collector
Collector - do you have any documentation or original sources that say many of these were made in Germany? I've seen so many more contemporary sources that call these "Turkish" pistols (or general Eastern Mediterranean), but I'd like to see evidence one way or another for where they were actually built. I'd like to call them for what they are and would like to know if they were indeed cheaply made in Europe for export.
-Eric
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Collector - I hope my post did not come across the wrong way - I was in no way suggesting that you shouldn't share your opinions or what you had read. I don't have much interest in these pistols either, but find it interesting to think they may have been made in Europe - some of them are certainly of better quality than others. Given the engraving found on some of the pistols (including the one posted here), it's quite possible it was made somewhere other than the eastern Med.
-Eric
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Eric, Not the case, at all. If there is anything that can be said about these pistols, with at least some certainty, it is that they are fairly plentiful in number. I'll have to dig mine out, take a few photos for comparison of shape and features and post them to this thread at a later date.
Heck, they were using them in the "Pirates Of The Caribbean" film series. I'm pretty sure pirate lord, Captain Barbossa carries at least one.