AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: James Wilson Everett on November 17, 2014, 11:37:40 PM
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Guys,
Here is another How Did They Do That? This will show the tools and technique for threading the breech of a gun barrel using 18th C style tooling. This is a two step process, similar to what modern M/L gunsmiths use. The barrel is a forged wrought iron rifled barrel, 0.515 caliber.
First the breech end of the barrel is opened to the proper hole diameter and depth using a tool called a grinder. It only opens the existing breech bore hole a bit to the proper diameter for the threading. The grinder is used as it is one of the rare 18th C tools that would actually cut a controlled diameter hole. The "fish tail" drill bits and tapered reamers could not accomplish this task. Here is a photo of the grinder and tap set used.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech3_zpsc6ea22b4.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech3_zpsc6ea22b4.jpg.html)
The grinder is used with a hand brace to cut the hole as shown. The breech end of the barrel has a significant lead-in or funnel shape to help start the rifling cutter, it would be difficult to start the rifling cutter on a square edge hole. So as the grinder cuts deeper into the bore, it also begins to take a bigger cut as the grinder works its way through the funnel section.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech4_zps33d7bd9c.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech4_zps33d7bd9c.jpg.html)
The breech is cut to a depth of 0.53 inches.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech5_zpsa15f752b.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech5_zpsa15f752b.jpg.html)
Here is what the resulting finished hole looks like, 0.53 depth and 0.58 diameter.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech6_zpsdf75d7ce.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech6_zpsdf75d7ce.jpg.html)
Now to form the threads. Here is a photo of an original 18th C set of breech plug taps alongside of the set I use.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech2_zps59e76414.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech2_zps59e76414.jpg.html)
The first tap has a long lead-in guide to keep it on center, it only forms about the first 4 or 5 threads. This is a very easy tool to use, the tool stays properly centered and it forms or swages the threads, it does not cut.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech7_zps4233150e.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech7_zps4233150e.jpg.html)
The tools are turned using an original tap wrench. The rectangular drive sections of the new set of taps were made to fit the old wrench.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech8_zps13a54f2b.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech8_zps13a54f2b.jpg.html)
Next the tapered tap and the bottom tap are used to finish the thread. Again, the threads are not cut, they are formed or swaged. The hole starts at 0.58 diameter and ends at 0.55 diameter as the threads are formed. The finished thread size is 0.614 diameter, 20 threads per inch.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech9_zpsebdf3c4d.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech9_zpsebdf3c4d.jpg.html)
This tooling may not work well on modern steel barrels as the steel we use today is significantly less ductile than wrought iron.
Jim
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That is awesome, James, thank you.
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This is great. Thanks for posting it.
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Very good info and probably very true. The one thing that bothers me is, the grinder doesn't have a pilot on the end.
for the most part I think this was the process used but t here were probably some small variations. I have some original barrels that look like this was the procedure used to do the breech plug. Some of mine look like there is a slight taper to the plug about 1/2 the taper of a modern pipe thread.
This is the most informative type of post. We don't get enough of this type.
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to echo Jerry: Piloted tools are the 'cat's meow' when you are doing this kind of work without a lathe.
I add that a slight tapering of the threads is very practical from a tap's perspective. The thread forming tool will stay aligned better with a little taper. If it were a straight forming tool, you'd have a very difficult time getting it started, and the first thread of the tool would take all the punishment of forming the thread.
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Guys,
Right! I guess I should show some more detail of how the tools work. The breech grinder certainly does have a pilot, in fact it is a removable pilot, although most probably this is a more modern adaptation of an 18th c grinder.
Here is a photo of a breech grinder with a replaceable pilot, just a tad smaller than the barrel bore.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Grinder/100_4896a.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Grinder/100_4896a.jpg.html)
The grinder teeth look like this on the working end. Since all of the chips are captured when opening the bore diameter, the grinder must be removed frequently to clear the chips away from the teeth.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Grinder/100_4897a.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Grinder/100_4897a.jpg.html)
Here is a photo of the two sizes of breech grinders that I use along with some brass pilots.
[UR(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Grinder/100_4895a.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Grinder/100_4895a.jpg.html)
As far as using a tapered thread tap. Yes, this makes keeping the thread aligned and on center a very easy job. But note, this is an actual tapered thread, not a tapered lead in of a straight thread like a modern plug tap- quite different. I seem to find it rather difficult to keep modern taps aligned and on center while cutting breech threads with just a tap wrench. Thanks for the comments.
Jim
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I find cutting breech threads straight with a modern tap impossible. A drill press fixture or, better yet, a lathe is a big help.
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Guys,
Just a bit more research on this topic. Here is a photo of three original breech grinders. These were used with the tap wrench type of tool and not with the drill brace as I use mine. I cannot see if there is any indication of a pilot, but I suspect that these do use a pilot. But, you can see that this type of tool was used to open up the larger diameter hole for the breech plug threads instead of any kind of drill bit or reamer tool.
Jim
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Grinder/OriginalBreechGrinder_zps54ffc910.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Grinder/OriginalBreechGrinder_zps54ffc910.jpg.html)
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Really cool tutorial James....thanks so much for the enlightenment! When I made some pistol barrels up a few years ago, I cut the breech pin recess with a modern piloted counterbore...same concept I see...the taps are the most revealing to me of the process
John
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Guys,
Now to make the breech plug! I start with some wrought iron bar, 1.1 inches diameter. The thread is 0.614 inch dia, 20 T.P.I. First I scribe a line around the bar, next cut & file the iron down to an octagon of about 0.610 inches.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2010_zps7mo4mntt.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2010_zps7mo4mntt.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2011_zpsp9ri2gdi.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2011_zpsp9ri2gdi.jpg.html)
Next I file the octagon to a 16 a-gon? And to a somewhat tapered round. Notice that this round is a good bit longer that the final threaded section.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2012_zpsaqgcmm9j.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2012_zpsaqgcmm9j.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2013_zpsburtibmq.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2013_zpsburtibmq.jpg.html)
Making the threads is a whole lot easier if you use an old style tool (modern dies are so frustrating). Here is the tool I use, late 19th or early 20th c, but it operates in the same way as an 18th c tool. You close the jaws on the base of the round section (Yes - the base). Tighten the tool and rotate the tool towards the free end. This is completely backwards from a modern die. However, the old tool is very easy to keep the thread centered, square and aligned. It takes several passes with this tool to form the threads for a good fit.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2014_zpsxzwystoc.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2014_zpsxzwystoc.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2015_zpswqitllvt.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2015_zpswqitllvt.jpg.html)
Using the old style tool the thread can be formed to give a really tight fit into the barrel breech threads. In this case I like to make a slightly tapered thread to help in the final thread fit-up. Try that one with a modern die!
Measure the depth of the barrel breech threads to the shoulder, then cut the breech plug threads a little longer.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2016_zpsov6n5bzf.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2016_zpsov6n5bzf.jpg.html)
Now install the thread and begin that careful file & fit process to bring the simultaneous firm contact at both the internal barrel shoulder and the barrel breech end. Notice with this method you do not worry at all about aligning the breech plug with a barrel flat.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2017_zpstmuzem6g.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2017_zpstmuzem6g.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2018_zpsbzckmde6.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2018_zpsbzckmde6.jpg.html)
Now shape the breech plug & tang correctly. Next posting as this one is so picture heavy.
Jim
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This is just great! Thank you for sharing.
Keith
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Interesting post James. I will be following it as you progress.
dave
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Very interesting James! Keep it coming.
Curtis
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Guys,
Here is a picture of an adjustable screw stock with the split die for making a large screw thread. It is taken from the mid-18th c Wyke tool catalog. As with the one that I used in this topic, the smith can make threads with a variety of diameters all having the same pitch. Or, he can make a tapered thread. In this case the thread is 0.614 - 20. It could just as easily be a 0.585 - 20.
If any of you guys ever see a tool like this large screw stock, grab it up and let me know! Donations are accepted!
Jim
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Wyke/wyketool1a.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Wyke/wyketool1a.jpg.html)
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Hi James,
Thank you very much for a most interesting post.
I have been in machining all my life and never gave threading much thought.
Just used the old taps & dies and went about my job.
The next time, I will give the masters of old much credit and thought.
And I will keep my eyes peeled for some old tools to add to your collection.
Best regards!
Fred
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You can still buy split dies like shown in the catalog cut above, and I have some really old ones with a Little Giant die stock and dies that looks a lot like item #349. MSC still has them in its catalog the last time I looked. Is this the same thing or not?
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Guys,
Now to finish the breech plug. I pick what will be the top flat of the barrel, the flat with the least amount of mistakes. I then file the breech plug metal block down to match the selected top flat. This way it is easier to get a nice alignment.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2019_zpsgbkidmju.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2019_zpsgbkidmju.jpg.html)
The rest is just cutting away all the remaining metal to leave the breech plug shape the way I like it. A lot of hacksaw work here.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2020_zpss6qt7sp8.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2020_zpss6qt7sp8.jpg.html)
The tang I want is the slightly flared shape (flare with a flair). The punch mark shows the centerline location. The tang is a bit longer than I will use, but it will be cut shorter later. So, now it is finished and ready for a proof test.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2021_zpshijo05ks.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2021_zpshijo05ks.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2022_zpscspfbkl8.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%2022_zpscspfbkl8.jpg.html)
Jim
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Remarkable post!
I have limited understanding of metal/machine work so pardon the stupid question...
You mention that this was a tapered thread (not like you'd get from a taper or plug tap). Should have quoted it ???
Is it tapered like an NPT tap would give you?
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Guys,
Not a stupid question at all. Often, the 18th c methods of metal working are so very much different from our modern methods, that our machinists of today are quite surprised. For instance, how to make a cylindrical metal part without a metal lathe?
For the large breech plug threads, it is certain that an 18th c tool using a split die was used. With this tool the smith can make quite a range of thread diameters with the same thread form and pitch. The question is - How to make the proper diameter male thread for the existing female threaded hole? The method I use is to start with a slightly tapered round pin that is significantly too long for the finished piece. The threads are formed on the tapered pin (not cut - they are swaged) until the tip or thinnest section will engage well with the breech threads. From then on the remaining threads are progressive worked or swaged to a proper diameter until the breech plug can be threaded to the barrel interior shoulder. Now the threads are the proper diameter. Next the over long male thread is cut back, I cut it back until it is only about 1 thread too long.
The thread is not tapered full length like a NPT pipe thread. Also, the threads are not just partially formed as with a modern taper or plug tap. On the example above, probably only the last 1/4 inch or so is tapered.
Now begins that tedious file n fit, file n fit, file n fit until the male thread bottoms on both the interior shoulder and the exterior barrel end simultaneously. This method of making the breech plug does eliminate the third requirement of also having the breech plug match up with the barrel top flat.
Jim
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Thanks for the clear explanation.
I really like the idea of the full round breechplug. Easy to hog off the non-tang part with a hacksaw.
The other advantage I can see (caution, long and perhaps convoluted)....
Parts like breech plugs and drums are what I'd call "safety critical fasteners"
On my motorcycles, everything but the license plate bolts are safety critical. I would never install a fastener without a torque wrench.
But the gunsmith art is to "tighten it pretty good". Breech plugs are probably robust enough to withstand a bit of over tightening to make it to the next flat. Drums not so much. In either case, I think you can way over stress (preload) the threaded bits by over tightening.
On my next build, I'm going to try the round stock breechplug method and grind some wrench flats on it so I can use my torque wrench on it. Figure the torque specs are for a Grade 1-2 bolt with lubed threads.
I've put wrench flats on my drum for the current project & I'll post what I find out.
If this post suggests I suffer from over-analysis and OCD----guilty as charged ::)
Thanks, again
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Interesting how it was done years ago. Nice file work. I don't think 'Swiss Mills' will ever become obsolete.
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James
Once again you have given us priceless information. Your work is amazing. I just wish someone would start making reproductions of the tools like you are using. I would certainly buy them.
Thanks again
Ben
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If any of you guys ever see a tool like this large screw stock, grab it up and let me know!
I have a set of those manufactured early in the last century, called the Greenfield Little Giant. They were my stepdad's. I think they go from 7/16ths" to 1".
They might be for sale (after I return from Friendship).
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Very interesting post, Thank you. I always wondered how the early split dies worked. The Little Giant split dies are only adjustable in a small range and they must cut from the nose of the screw to the shoulder as opposed to starting at the shoulder and backing it off the nose of the thread as James explained for the early split die. Little Giant dies also cut threads instead of swaging them.
Mark
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James, Thank you very much. This thread should serve to make us all very dissatisfied with modern 'close enough' thread forms!
Seeing your pictures of screw stocks has made me painfully aware that I have left a few in junk store buckets of rust not knowing exactly what they were :'(
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Let me add a few comments here. First being, and I'm sure Jim knows, that the old boys never threaded a breech with threads as fine as 20 per inch. I'd think most were closer to 12 or 14, maybe 15 per inch. Plus, none that I've taken apart were all that tightly fitted. Most breech plugs can be hand turned into the barrel up until the last half turn or so, then you'll need a wrench.
The same pertains to percussion drums, course threads and loosely fitted until the last bit.
I'm sure things tightened up during the industrial revolution, but before that, 'tight' meant something other than it does today.
John
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I'm a bit late to this party, but Jim's thesis on threading is first rate.
As the post is about period tradesman practice, it should be part of the record that the stock removal approach to making a breechplug would have seemed very odd 200 years ago. There is no doubt in my mind that a breechplug was forged to shape and the files and saws used in the finishing not the fundamental shaping. Forging is not only faster, but if approached with professional level skills will result in a stronger product with a more refined grain.
Jim's stuff about thread forming compares very well with my own experience making wrought iron nuts and bolts over the years at Colonial Williamsburg. Full marks from me on that one! And kudos for taking the time to record your practice.
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Thanks again James for sharing.
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Guys,
Just finished a reproduction period breech plug screw plate. I gave up on finding an original outside of the Smithsonian (do they even have one?) Anyway, the tool is adapted from the large screw plate from the 18th c Wyke tool catalog. Not an exact reproduction of the Wyke screw plate, but close in style. This tool will cut the male threads that match the breech plug taps already shown in this topic. Remember, longrifles are just a byproduct of really neat tools!
Jim
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%20Screw%20Plate%201_zpsucbqkwyf.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%20Screw%20Plate%201_zpsucbqkwyf.jpg.html)
[(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%20Screw%20Plate%202_zpslg8bco4p.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Breech%20Plug/Breech%20Screw%20Plate%202_zpslg8bco4p.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Wyke/wyketool1a.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Wyke/wyketool1a.jpg.html)
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Wow! That's phenomenal work Jim. Have you tried it out yet?..How's it perform?
John
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Guys,
I just found an 18th c threading tool very much like the one pictured in the Wyke catalog. The jaws included with the tool appear to make about a 3/8-14 thread. These jaws are replaceable so other sizes can be made. Here are photos of the tool.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0078a_zpsz41yapar.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0078a_zpsz41yapar.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0077a_zpsejc6h5zs.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0077a_zpsejc6h5zs.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0079a_zpskv2gp6a5.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0079a_zpskv2gp6a5.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0080a_zpslhn4kum7.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0080a_zpslhn4kum7.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0081a_zpsw0bo3xcn.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0081a_zpsw0bo3xcn.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0082a_zpsuaxrxuog.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0082a_zpsuaxrxuog.jpg.html)
Notice the punch marks on the tool to ensure that it is assembled correctly. This one is very much like the number 349 tool in the Wyke catalog. I am convinced that this one was owned by Jacob Dickert!!!
Jim
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Amazing find! Glad it found its way into your hands.
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Jim,
I’m not so sure about that being Jacob Dickert’s. It looks exactly like the one I watched Martin Myelin use for making the very first real honest-to-God genuine Kentucky rifle ever made.
Bill Paton
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Wow Jim, that's very cool! Just go ahead and send it to me and I'll check it against the bolt threads in my rifle... And yeah, sort of get it,,, more or less right back to you! ;D
John
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Every day something on this forum blows me away! I have no idea how i missed this thread before but shows the beauty of simplicity. Thanks!
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Does this not qualify as a "tutorial"? So much good information and "how too".
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I think this and the lock making thread should both be tutorials. I am treating them as such. Actually, that goes for just about everything Jim posts. He needs to write a big book on building a longrifle the hard way. If he doesn't, maybe I will if I live long enough. ;)
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I want the first autographed copy of that book if we can get Jim to right it.
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I want the first autographed copy of that book if we can get Jim to right it.
Absolutely! Put me down for 2
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Forging to shape rather than machining everything has been used by some companies in our (well, my) lifetime. Nicholson file used to forge the tangs on their files up to about 1980. At this time they began to simply blank them out & discard the scrap.
Mr. Wilson I sure do agree with you that these tools are meant to form threads in nice, soft wrought iron. The cold drawn 12L14 used today for barrels has much higher tensile strength but negligible ductility.
Would it be too cynical of me to suggest that someone here will try your tool design on a modern 12L14 barrel and then complain that they don't work?
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Guys,
Here is another 18th c tool that would make the larger threads for a breech plug. The tool overall length is about 16.5 inches. The three sizes of the threads are about 0.75-10, 0.62-12, 0.56-12. This one is unmarked except for some strange punch marks and lines of unknown meaning.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/Smith%20Made%202_zpszgcvdkfo.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/Smith%20Made%202_zpszgcvdkfo.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/Smith%20Made%201_zps4spjng8d.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/Smith%20Made%201_zps4spjng8d.jpg.html)
This tool is very similar to the reproduction tool used at the Colonial Williamsburg armory shop as seen in the photos, below.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Williamsburg/WoodScrew2_zps88d69ac7.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Williamsburg/WoodScrew2_zps88d69ac7.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/Williamsburg/WoodScrew1_zps5899b92c.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/Williamsburg/WoodScrew1_zps5899b92c.jpg.html)
Tools like this would not be too difficult to make as reproduction shop tools.
Jim
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Guys,
Here is another 18th c thread making tool. This one is large, about 18 inches long. The metal near the thread forming holes appears to be inset steel, while the majority of the tool is wrought iron. This is very similar to the construction of the Colonial Williamsburg reproduction. The wing nut is really neat and early looking, however the male threads on the tightening post are worn away until the threads no longer engage, a lot of use here. The three thread sizes are approximately 0.50 - 16TPI, 0.42 - 12TPI, 0.38 - 14TPI. That's right, the largest size appears to have the finest threads. The tool also has a vertical post at the end of one handle, I surmise that this was to make the rotation of the tool quicker and easier for the operator.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/Smith%20Made%20A%201_zpsha9vhlwz.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/Smith%20Made%20A%201_zpsha9vhlwz.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/Smith%20Made%20A%202_zps01i3ldnu.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/Smith%20Made%20A%202_zps01i3ldnu.jpg.html)
Since this tool is so very similar to the previous tool, it appears to be a common pattern in the 18th c tooling.
Jim
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Jim,
Where do you find these tools?
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Mark,
As they say, "when it rains, it pours". All three of these tools came from E-Bay. I have been looking for such 18th c tools for many years with little success, then suddenly they appear. The first two were very inexpensive, surely the seller had no idea of their rarity or value. The last one was sold at an appropriately higher price, as I am sure the seller knew what it was. However, searching for such tools on E-Bay is difficult as the sellers do not know what to call them. The first tool, the refined one, was listed as a "machinist die & handle", the second was listed as a "die pipe thread cutter" and the third as a "bolt threader". I am tempted to make an operating reproduction like I did for the Wyke tool earlier this year.
Mark, I KNOW you want to make one of these! Let me know if you want the detailed measurements.
Jim
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I have a thought or should I say a question. Concerning tightness of fit fore breach plugs. If the fit is slightly lose The face of the plug would better align with the face in the barrel when tightened down. In talking to a gentleman that at Friendship who built long range bullet rifles he preferred a slightly lose fit.
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Yes, I am going to want to make one eventually. You might as well send me the particulars to add to my list of tools to make. I have two guns to finish, then I can concentrate on getting all these tools made.
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Hudson,
Working with the original wrought iron is quite a bit different than working with modern materials. Wrought iron is so very much more ductile than modern steels, almost three time more ductile than the modern M.L. barrel material of 12L14. So it is really a whole lot easier to get a very tight seal between the breech plug face and the barrel bore shoulder. The two surfaces sort of "mush" or "squash" together and make a tight seal. (I believe these are the correct technical terms!) The modern stuff simply does not act this way, and is a lot more difficult to make a simultaneous, firm contact at both the barrel end and the bore end. Once you work with the correct material, you lose much admiration for modern steel. My opinion, of course.
Jim
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Guys,
Here are some photos of another of this type of threading tool or screw plate. The three original tools shown above in this topic were bought at reasonable prices. This last one went on E-Bay for well over $300, I bid on it but it was well above what this poor missionary was willing to pay. Although, it is worth this high price in my opinion. Anyway, here is another 18th century tool, certainly Jacob Dickert had a tool just like these.
Jim
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/s-l1600e_zpsxgt0p2ku.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/s-l1600e_zpsxgt0p2ku.jpg.html)
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/s-l1600_zps6wwptor4.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/s-l1600_zps6wwptor4.jpg.html)
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I cant resist, this is a great thread..... :D
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Jim - what type of metal are those tools made of - they can't be all wrought iron? How did they cut the threads into the tools in the first place, male & female? Were the tools case hardened? Were the tools made by the individual gunsmith or were they mass produced (?) as in a cottage industry? Great thread your did - I thoroughly enjoyed it. ;) ;)
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Guys,
Really great questions, I will do my best to give an answer. I think that the three rusty looking tools are blacksmith made, not made by a professional tool maker. They are fully functional, but rather crude with no embellishments. The clean tool with replaceable split dies seems to be made by a professional tool maker. Very similar to tools shown in the mid-18th century John Wyke tool catalog.
Such tools were not made from case hardened iron. The rather thin case hardened skin would be much too fragile for the heavy stress operation of swaging screw threads. But, it seems that the use of hardenable high carbon steel was limited to only the replaceable split die pieces, or to the section of the tool than would be in direct contact with the work piece during the swage operation. In this case there is a forge welded seam between the iron and the carbon steel.
Here is a magnified photo of the Colonial Williamsburg reproduction tool. You can see the slight difference in color between the two materials, about 1/2 inch on either side of the actual die section. The dark black line you see is just a slag string inclusion in the wrought iron, not a crack or flaw.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0044a_zpsyxkqhttg.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/SANY0044a_zpsyxkqhttg.jpg.html)
Here is a magnified photo of one of the original rusty tools. You can see the same interface here, but it is a bit more difficult to see due to the rust. A lot of original tools were made in such a fashion as carbon steel was so expensive.
(https://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n514/JamesEverett/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/Smith%20Made%20A%202a_zpsxfppsg2u.jpg) (http://s1137.photobucket.com/user/JamesEverett/media/Tools/18th%20c%20adjustable/Smith%20Made%20A%202a_zpsxfppsg2u.jpg.html)
The replaceable split die on the clean tool is all carbon steel while the rest of the tool is iron.
Jim