AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Mark Elliott on February 28, 2015, 06:26:30 AM
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I was wondering if I could get a quick show of hands as to whether you use a "v" gouge for doing incised carving or use a skew(knife) and/or curve matching gouges?
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I use a Parting tool that's about a 60* angle, comes down to a fine point. It's a small Japanese tool. I also have a 60* Pfeil parting tool as well but it has a larger heel and isn't as good for tight work, but better for straight lines. I do all my incised and outlining for relief carving with these two tools.
-Eric
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Eric,
You are the reason I asked. I recently saw some of your work and thought it was very nice; and probably done with a parting tool. Where did you get that particular parting tool? I have a couple Pfeil's but they are too thick for what I would consider acceptable results.
Best,
Mark
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Mark,
Good questions and thank you for asking them. I've wanted to try incised carving and wondered what to use; it may have taken me awhile to ask. Looking forward to the answers.
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I can't recall where I got the Japanese tool, I've seen similar carving tools for sale on a website that I also can't find at the moment. I like it because it can do tight work, though it took some getting used to how nimble it was after working with the Pfeil. The Pfeil is their "D 12/8" size (8mm tall). The Japanese tool is about 4mm tall by comparison, and the blade thickness is maybe .025" vs the .05" on the Pfeil. The Pfeil is a great tool and the V comes to a tight point, which is more than I can say about the Henry Taylor parting tool I have that doesn't come to a point at all and never gets used. The Pfeil is a little easier to control the depth with than the Japanese tool, but is still just a bit too big for most work. I chase with a small wooden hammer I made, maybe weighs 3 or 4 ounces. Let me know if you have any other questions about it, I took photos of the carving process and have been meaning to do a tutorial on how I carve with a parting tool (we've all got our own techniques :) ).
-Eric
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy98%2FHelmsDown%2Fchisel2.jpg&hash=c4312adf18fea6076bf7a29f8b34e14b4da975bc)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy98%2FHelmsDown%2Fchisel1.jpeg&hash=e4d1d12c528d37079515513c7d8d3ed2af59369a)
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I hesitate to respond as I'm still on a steep learning curve with respect to carving. But I did want to comment on the relatively thick heels on Pfeil parting tools. I use a Pfeil D 12/2 - 2mm & 60 degrees. At first, I had trouble controlling depth and tight curved incised carving. No doubt due to my inexperience, but also, as it turns out, to the relatively thick heel on the Pfeil. Page 36 of the link below addresses this issue and how to correct it by slimming the heel.
http://www.bob-easton.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/SelectingAndSharpeningYourVtool.pdf
Having thinned the heel on my v-tool, I'm better able to control it in straight and curved carving. Of course, now it's just my level of proficiency that's holding me back. ;D
Bill
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I also , for a very long time used a Pfeil V . but a couple years ago I went to using a checkering veiner which really is nothing more then a 1/8th V tool . They are Small and light and if kept sharp cuts much like a push graver .
I now have 3 different ones .2 straits and are 90 deg those are Dem-bart the one I use the most is an older one . Not sure who made it as there is no makings . But its 60 deg or close to it and has more of a sweep to it , which allows the handle to be a little higher
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Mark, I use a Pfiel 15/3 V tool which is 60 degrees. There was a post here several years ago about improving this tool by removing exess metal which keeps the heel narrow and a consistant width. I did alter mine and with proper sharpening works very well.
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I use a 60 degree parting tool that I got from Woodcrafters. My thick 90 degree parting tool from Pfiel is pretty much useless to me.
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I have a Pfiel 60 degree parting tool x 1 mm wide, which I adore for incised.
Of course this is good, hard maple, but this tool cuts like a dream.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa246%2FTom45-70%2FLehigh-Neihart%2FDSC_0356.jpg&hash=b724f2062ac24652500052d097b9248e504e8955) (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/Tom45-70/media/Lehigh-Neihart/DSC_0356.jpg.html)
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oops, I'm supposed to be doing my taxes. I drifted over here by mistake.
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I use a very small 60 deg. parting tool sold by Dem Bart Chequering tools through Brownell's. It has a handle that perfectly fits my hand, a short blade and a bit of an upsweep to it. It allows me great control, takes a crazy sharp edge, and I use it to outline all my carving. I push it by hand. Here's the tool at work. You can see by the length of the chip that the tool offers great control. Another blessing is that I can cut some pretty short curves too. Always, as with any chisel, paying strict attention to grain direction is key.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2FJacob%2520Kuntz%2FDSCN4001.jpg&hash=02cb71f2a2cab0b881e6549860f1c0622ed21dae) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/Jacob%20Kuntz/DSCN4001.jpg.html)
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Just yesterday, I made a stabbing tool out of an old dental scaler. I used it, again yesterday, for the first time, and it makes your carving pop, by accentuating the outline. I don't know how I've got along without it til now. So, at this point in time, I use the parting tool for outlining, and the stabbing tool for clarification and definition.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2FTaylorMadeGuns%2FTammy%2520Jaeger%2F100_5171_zpstmdve82a.jpg&hash=d2863db7d3cb2ddb0a806cdb2ca56b272795352f) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/TaylorMadeGuns/Tammy%20Jaeger/100_5171_zpstmdve82a.jpg.html)
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The tool Acer recommends is one I have too, the 1mm V tool. It is a full sized tool, I use it to outline carvings, define inlays and do simple, shallow, incising. I use a 1lb wooden mallet to drive it. Works very well.
dp
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If not being concerned with historical correctness, I prefer to stab in with gouges and then come back with a skew chisel or knife to widen the cut. Many longrifles were incised cut with a v-tool, though the process of using gouges and a knife is sometimes seen. Especially on European work. In my view this method can produce a little more classy results as compared to a v-tool. This is the method promoted by Wallace and I learned it from him.
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Just yesterday, I made a stabbing tool out of an old dental scaler. I used it, again yesterday, for the first time, and it makes your carving pop, by accentuating the outline. I don't know how I've got along without it til now. So, at this point in time, I use the parting tool for outlining, and the stabbing tool for clarification and definition.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2FTaylorMadeGuns%2FTammy%2520Jaeger%2F100_5171_zpstmdve82a.jpg&hash=d2863db7d3cb2ddb0a806cdb2ca56b272795352f) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/TaylorMadeGuns/Tammy%20Jaeger/100_5171_zpstmdve82a.jpg.html)
Taylor, I would love to see your new tool in action. Wonderful carving!
John.
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I love reading these "how to" posts.
It is like learning to play guitar, and BB King and Eric Clapton post topics daily. :-)
Best wishes, Marc
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What an analogy!! But I too learn great gobbs of stuff here, and appreciate the remark.
John, I'll take a picture and post in a few minutes. This tool has been spoken of several times in past threads. It just took me a few years to get around to making one.
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Dang Taylor. That's so pretty it makes me mad.
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Very kind Jerry. Cheer up!! I'm down to the short strokes on this build, and I'll post a few images when I've finished. This is that little Jaeger I'm building for that young woman that was my guide two years in a row in moose camp.
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I wonder if your guide looks as good as that gun.
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Answer to John's inquiry about stabbing tool:
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2Fspecialty%2520tools%2F100_5174_zpsbpuvdbne.jpg&hash=0b9a2d08924ab121317406533ed16072d71126bb) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/specialty%20tools/100_5174_zpsbpuvdbne.jpg.html)
This a before and after shot. I heated the tip red, straightened it, and made a punch out of it. Yesterday, I ground it into a stabbing-in tool.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2Fspecialty%2520tools%2F100_5177_zpspykrajf8.jpg&hash=8652bb7d1e0ad9678d6c5ae36cd0b310fdfe15e7) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/specialty%20tools/100_5177_zpspykrajf8.jpg.html)
This is the tool at work. It is not a flat chisel, but has a lens (convex) shape. The tip too is rounded and polished. It is very sharp.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2Fspecialty%2520tools%2F100_5176_zpsuw7yhe9p.jpg&hash=e2231d243ea2695841892532361d99d63ae9d8ad) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/specialty%20tools/100_5176_zpsuw7yhe9p.jpg.html)
The tool on edge. It is about 5/64" wide. In use, I pressed it into the wood, rocking it along it's length a little. then I withdrew it, and placed half of the edge back into the cut previously made, and pressed down again. Repeat this, following the curved line.
I have some dental scalers with chubbier handles, and intend to make a few more of these. the tool I pictured is only about 1/4" in diameter in the handle part, and not easy to use. Also, I'll cut the new projects in half so get two from a scaler. I can also then add a button on the end of the handle to better aid in the stabbing process.
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(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2FTaylorMadeGuns%2FTammy%2520Jaeger%2F100_5171_zpstmdve82a.jpg&hash=d2863db7d3cb2ddb0a806cdb2ca56b272795352f) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/TaylorMadeGuns/Tammy%20Jaeger/100_5171_zpstmdve82a.jpg.html)
This is going to be a treat! Amazing.