AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: E.vonAschwege on March 02, 2015, 09:05:10 PM
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Hey Folks,
I built this rifle a few months ago and wanted to share it here for some feedback. I've never built an East Tennessee rifle, but picked up this stock as a project from another gunsmith after it was discovered the buttstock and toe had severe open stress cracks. The blank had already been inlet for a 3/4" 42" barrel, 5/16" rr, and a Ketland lock (with the tail). While I was inspecting the work, Stan Hollenbough came over and said jokingly "what are you doing with that piece of firewood??", to which I replied "Challenge Accepted" ;D!
Instead of scrapping the project, the cracks were stabilized and the rifle was built as a "fake", in an attempt to mimic the look and patina found on original walnut stocks of the period. With that combination of tiny barrel and the large earlier style lock, this isn't an exact copy, and is instead built "in the style" of those from Eastern Tennessee with a few smaller western North Carolina traits thrown in for fun - perhaps a gunsmith that was trained in East Tennessee but had seen the work of NC mountain gunsmiths as well - or the other way around. I stabilized the cracks in the buttstock prior to shaping by tipping the stock on its muzzle, wrapping the buttstock in tape, and pouring hot-stuff CA glue into the cracks. The last inch of toe was like swiss cheese, and has several patches in it that were hidden when the stock was darkened. The first bandsaw blade met an untimely demise when it encountered unseen pebbles in the toe and under the buttplate.
The biggest challenge has been (and still is) to create a believable texture to the wood and steel. The photos of original Southern iron mounted riles in the ALR library were very helpful as I developed the patina. I'm happy with the rifle but I think the patina is still a work in progress. Thoughts or critique are welcome.
-Eric
Larger resolution photos on my website:
http://www.neahkahnieflintlocks.com/appalachian-rifle.html (http://www.neahkahnieflintlocks.com/appalachian-rifle.html)
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Beautiful rifle. It has almost all the items I would want in an E. Tennessee rifle: Simple (in appearance, not in execution) clean lines, browned iron fittings, double set trigger, crescent butt, flint lock.
I have found that wiping the surfaces with a used cleaning patch will hasten the patina.
If it is not too indelicate to ask: What would such a rifle run for in .34 cal?
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Really cool gun, Eric! Not sure what draws me to this style but I loves dem! No flash, no googaws, just great architecture. Looks like you nailed it!
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Very nice. I like it a lot.
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AH HA!...a in-the-barrel front sight ;D ;D ;D aren't the cool!!?
I like that rifle.....I think YOU won the bet, he owes you a donut.
marc n tomtom
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Wow! I'm a newbie and major greenhorn, but that is beautiful!! To me, it looks like a well loved and cared for OLD rifle. I'm with kaintuck, it looks like you won the bet. Did I say WOW already???
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Nice job. I'll bet you are a heck of a poker player too! ;D
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OUTSTANDING rifle.Definetley my kind of long rifle.
Bob Roller
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Only thing I see is you missed blowing out a barrel pin hole! Nice...
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Great job I just love this type of rifle but I do have a question? Would that type of fore end cap have been found on a rifle of tis type? Just curious?
Richard
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Good gracious! My kind of rifle!
J.B.
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Nailed. That architecture is fine as frogs hair Eric. She's a slim lil gal, and looks like a mean shooter.
dave
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Very nicely done!!!I love it when someone throws down the gauntlett on projects such as this.I have several long rifles made in sucha challenge,came out well considering the stock boo boos that needed attention.I have,oops-had- a nice SMR I built from a curly stock that had been sorta preshaped,and inlet.Came out to a nice flint 40 cal ,one of my shootin buddies took it home with him.Really like your work.Best regards,Dave F
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Okay, come clean and tell us the truth. You bought a fine old SMR, and now you're trying to convince us that you made it. Yeah, right! ;)
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That turned out nice Eric. Glad I got to see it finished. I remember it well when it was in the white. The nice flat profile underneath the lock panel looks super. Nice little detail on the front trigger. Nice job of not overkilling the distressing. I know when I do one I lay out the books and try to duplicate original wear and tear and damage. I always have to take a big breath before making that first mark on the stock.
David
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Eric,
Very nice, looks great. The metal needs some aging to go with the wood but I am sure you will get that worked out.
Dennis
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What is the caliber.....?
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Great job Eric! My kind of rifle.
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Atta Boy!
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Thanks for the kind words everyone. I really had fun with this one. This has a .36 cal straight Green Mountain barrel.
Richard, I'm not sure how correct the chevron and jagged pewter muzzlecap is - there's definitely some fantasy in this rifle. I have seen chevrons, vertical stripes, and solid pewter nosecaps with the jagged edge - I just decided to combine them. Dave, That first mark on the stock is the most difficult! Same with the first dents, dings, and vise marks on the barrel and hardware. After the initial distressing, adding some walnut dye, soot, oil, finish, rubbing back, and burnishing, then adding more dents, it all starts to come together and look pleasing. It's tough marring the steel barrel and parts because they're a lot tougher than wrought iron.
I think on the next fake I'll play with a heat gun and steam to try to keep the stock from becoming so smooth. If I had a fireplace I'd hang the completed rifle from the top of the chimney and let it smoke for a day.
-Eric
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That is sweet !! Love the steel furniture and the perfect patina you put to it .
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That is a beautiful rifle with sleek architecture. I really like it!
Working with that stock reminds me of a horn Ron Hess made. He was told a certain raw horn was useless, and he made a silk purse out of it.
Your work with that stock is to be commended. I dare say someone will buy it off of you in no time.
God Bless, Marc
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Now that i've had time to look it over-and over, I do very much like the gun. I'm with Dennis on the metal though, bbl aging is great, but the screws are too perfect. I really interested to see what you can do with the heat gun.
Oh and I have a chimney, just ship that thing over and i'll take care of your smoking it. ;D
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Good looking gun, but I would have cut the muzzle back past that radius at the flats, re-crowned it, and finished out like an original gun of that period. Looks like a Green Mountain Barrel? Thanks for posting the pictures.
Bart
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Dave, That first mark on the stock is the most difficult! Same with the first dents, dings, and vise marks on the barrel and hardware. After the initial distressing, adding some walnut dye, soot, oil, finish, rubbing back, and burnishing, then adding more dents, it all starts to come together and look pleasing. It's tough marring the steel barrel and parts because they're a lot tougher than wrought iron.
I think on the next fake I'll play with a heat gun and steam to try to keep the stock from becoming so smooth. If I had a fireplace I'd hang the completed rifle from the top of the chimney and let it smoke for a day.
-Eric
My next fake is going to get hung in my chicken house! A couple of weeks as a roost for a dozen birds ought to do the trick!
David
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Bart, I agree that for the next GM barrel I use I'll cut the muzzle back slightly and recrown it. The muzzle and the non-buggered screw heads are the biggest tells in my opinion. I finished a Lehigh barn gun lately, even though photos are up on my site, I'm still playing with the aging. I'll share more of that one in a few weeks.
David - The chicken house would antique it wonderfully! In the 60s, there was a furniture maker contracted to build an exact set of an 18th century French chairs. In order to make the wood have the same appearance as 200 year old pieces, he rough cut all the parts, then buried them in wet horse manure for several months. The acids and other bits in in the manure permeated the wood so that when he did final shaping, the wood had the right color and patina!
-Eric
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Eric-
....'believable texture in wood and steel', for sure!!
The proportion and grace in the profile of this rifle are candy for the eyes. As for the finish; it reflects just how dangerous your skill-set has become.
Salute!
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It is excellent. You really have "the touch".
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What's not to like? Excellent work.
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A really really nice rifle! But like I think has been said, the tip-off to me was the lack of screw damage and the too crisp appearance of the bore at the muzzle--even a well cared for MLer would have wear around the crown area if shot a lot [not that I would want a new one to have it!]...but nice job. Erosion around the touchhole is another thing that I would look for...
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On Kettenburg's rifles, the crispness of the rifling is the sure give-away. Great job, Eric. Your photography is excellent, too.
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David - The chicken house would antique it wonderfully! In the 60s, there was a furniture maker contracted to build an exact set of an 18th century French chairs. In order to make the wood have the same appearance as 200 year old pieces, he rough cut all the parts, then buried them in wet horse manure for several months. The acids and other bits in in the manure permeated the wood so that when he did final shaping, the wood had the right color and patina!
-Eric
I got a pile of horse manure as well. I can see it now, rough hewn a curly maple blank, bury it in the manure pile for a month or two, pull the stock out, hose it off and inlet all the parts that have been hanging in the chicken house. This madness gives a whole new meaning to the term "Barn Gun". ;D But I digress, sorta.
David
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I like it, Eric. Real nice job.
Jim
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Oh very nice Eric. I like it and look forward to seeing it again when you finish the aging!
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Have always had a soft spot for smr's, and for any long, slim rifle with great lines. Very few of the old ones live up to the look and feel of this one. Ambrose Lawing and a few others come to mind.
There should be a giveaway or two, and a name and year placed proudly on the barrel, or we cross that line from warm with a story to fake and fraud - someday.
I think it was Wallace who suggested that a rifle look good from 6 feet, but at 6" honesty should set in. Thanks for sharing another fine rifle with us.
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Bart, I agree that for the next GM barrel I use I'll cut the muzzle back slightly and recrown it. The muzzle and the non-buggered screw heads are the biggest tells in my opinion. I finished a Lehigh barn gun lately, even though photos are up on my site, I'm still playing with the aging. I'll share more of that one in a few weeks.
-Eric
Eric, here are some pictures of a barrel I aged along with some other details
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It helps to have some old original barrels on hand to get a feel for old barrels. The screw heads on the rifle are the same, but I turned one down, toolk any sharp edges off the head, crunched the side with a pair of pliers, hammerd on them with a hammer. Both started as trhe same in profile, but each one ended up looking different. The barrel is a Colrain and I trimmed off three and a half inches, filed the end as best I could and used a nail set to put in the circles around the face of the barrel.
The barrel was aged in this fashion: I draw filed the barrel, then I filed the edges of the flats, then I used a palm sander and sanded down the barrel. Sometimes I use a small hammer to dent the edges of the flats, I then applied cold blue, hung the barrel upside down on a fence (not sure if the fence adds anything, but I have one so I use it) and in about four days it was rusty. I ioled the barrel and caarded (gently) with 0000 steel wool. I made sure that any engraving (my name) was installed befor I started the aging process. As time goes on the barrel will take on a better patina.
I'm not sure oif this is the 'correct' way to do this, but it's what I do, as I have not had anybody teach or show me the 'correct' way to do this (if there is such a thing as a correct way)
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Very nice! Beautiful work!
~Tony
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I get my chops busted for not buggering screw slots too. But,in my opinion if you're actually going to use the gun there is nothing more aggravating than a buggered lock screw slot when you're trying to take off the lock to clean the gun. Just one of my little annoying things in my life. Now, If a customer wanted buggered slots it's not a big deal. I guess I assume if they will be shot they ought to have functional screw heads. Some compromise has to be made....or maybe not?
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I get my chops busted for not buggering screw slots too. But,in my opinion if you're actually going to use the gun there is nothing more aggravating than a buggered lock screw slot when you're trying to take off the lock to clean the gun. Just one of my little annoying things in my life. Now, If a customer wanted buggered slots it's not a big deal. I guess I assume if they will be shot they ought to have functional screw heads. Some compromise has to be made....or maybe not?
I wouldn't wallow 'em out much, just can't leave 'em perfect.
See, what a fella ought do is make special bugger-headed screws-drivers! Or include them with the buggerheaded guns. :P
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Next one, maybe I'll hang it up between two posts in my chicken house and let the things roost on it for a week .
It would pick up patina and scratches :) Instead of the Woodbury School, and clorox, we could start a Barn School
;D ;D
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Next one, maybe I'll hang it up between two posts in my chicken house and let the things roost on it for a week .
It would pick up patina and scratches :) Instead of the Woodbury School, and clorox, we could start a Barn School
;D ;D
Would be the "coop" school.....much different than barn guns. Imagine cheeking your gun with the ever present aroma of chicken shitzen. :P Not that the smell of chicken shitzen is anything unusual for me. ;D
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:D Don't make me laff so much guys, my guts ain't over their bout with c. diff yet! OW!
Durn purty gun there, Eric, but since it's imperfectly perfect in a couple spots, you can send it up here for a couple weeks. Hey, just trying to help out ;D
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That's a fine rifle and I like it; wouldn't mind owning it, one bit! Ever thought about rolling the stock and barrel around in gravel? That is sure to give patterns of random gentle abuse.
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Oh boy - the "coop school", we've all got cabin fever!
Gaeckle - I don't think there is a "correct" way to age anything - and every gun is different, its own unique process and experiment. I've found it is easy to beat up a new barrel and make it look old and rusty, but very difficult to get modern barrel steels to take rust and shine to have the same appearance as an old wrought barrel.
The rifle was built to sell, but then my dad saw photos of it and wouldn't stop asking me questions about it... It became his birthday gift this year. I'll definitely be building more along these lines, they're fun and very different from Pennsylvania guns! As soon as I get my dad out shooting it, the screw holes will get buggered up in their own time. Compromise on the aging must be made somewhere - for me it is the muzzle and the bore - they're meant to be shot, and a wallowed up muzzle isn't going to be accurate. Still, now that I'm looking at the photo of the muzzle I wish I'd cut off that lathe turned end, haha! I'll have plenty of restoration work in time where I can rust and destroy the muzzle end of a stretched barrel.
-Eric
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Clearly a cool rifle. The stress cracks add to the effect, not detract from it. As for un-buggered screws, you could sat that the heads were heavily case hardened. Which is a good idea today.
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I am glad your dad is getting it. Great placement for a fine rifle. It also ends the question of which of us was going to buy it. ;-)
Best wishes, Marc
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I get my chops busted for not buggering screw slots too. But,in my opinion if you're actually going to use the gun there is nothing more aggravating than a buggered lock screw slot when you're trying to take off the lock to clean the gun. Just one of my little annoying things in my life. Now, If a customer wanted buggered slots it's not a big deal. I guess I assume if they will be shot they ought to have functional screw heads. Some compromise has to be made....or maybe not?
Let me take the lock off once I'm sure to booger the screws up anyway
Very nice gun!
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You guys are behind a few years on the coop school, anyone who was in Ron Griffey's shop knows what I mean. But add cat urine, gotta have the added essence of cat urine. ;)
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Both cat urine and chicken schitzen are loaded with ammonia. Should neutralize any remaining acidity in you aqua fortis or browning formulas. ;)
Two birds, as they say. Enjoy, J.D.
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Hmm.......... I often wondered if attic guns turned so black because of all the ammonia etc. from roof rats living in the attic............. Some old ...or even new attics you better wear a gas mask when you enter!
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Hmm.......... I often wondered if attic guns turned so black because of all the ammonia etc. from roof rats living in the attic............. Some old ...or even new attics you better wear a gas mask when you enter!
Hmmmm. "Rat $#@*" school , has a certain ring to it. ;)
Seriously nice gun. I was talking to george potter last week end and he considers a gun a work in progress long after it's finished. He fiddles with the patina for quite some time. It's too bad so many of us have delivery deadlines, it would be great to continue to fiddle around untill the gun was "just right". With you're father being the owner of this one maybe you will have an extended period of fiddling.
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Eric- beautiful!
This sure beats the right or wrong debates about aging into submission.
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I love it Eric. You are a man of diversity.
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I am a big fan of the aging process. It is an art form and yours is a fine attempt. What you did with saving a stock that would be discarded by many is commendable. That is a skill the old gun makers fed their family with.
Ric
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Eric, I really like what you accomplished here! Great work!
Curtis
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Mike, I've been working on my aging process, pulled a lot hair out, put just the right amount of grey in the last remains hairs.....put wrinkles here and there, walk with more of a shuffle........oh, wait a minute, your talking about rifles......
Heck, I even have the old @$#% listening/understanding thing down better.........
Marc n tomtom
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Ok, I'll sell tomtom litter to any that want it......I change it once a week......it'll have to ship UPS as its classified as Hazmat.... ;D
Marc n tomtom
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Eric,
Very nice rifle, perfect in my opinion.
Was it difficult to proportion the rifle around the 3/4" barrel? I've never used a 3/4" but at times I find it tricky to keep things looking right with a 13/16" bbl.
Great job!
Ted
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Hey Ted,
If the barrel hadn't already been inlet into the stock, with no wiggle room with the way the profile was cut to allow me to inlet a larger barrel, I wouldn't have used a 3/4" barrel. The size of the lock next to such a small barrel is a bit ridiculous. The lock innards were almost touching the back of the breech plug, and I think the amount of wood removed for the lock weakens that area of the stock. It was also the main reason I used a single lock bolt - with the ramrod spacing as it was and the size of the lock, the bolt would have been smack in the middle of the ramrod ::). I love skinny guns, but will stick to swamped barrels and larger breeches if I can ;D.
-Eric