AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: lhill on July 16, 2008, 12:12:22 AM
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does anyone on the board know the origins of the double ended oval patchbox that can be seen on contemporary longrifles? I guess the one that stands out most notably is the one on Hershel Houses' rifle on the cover of the book of buckskinning 3. I am still working on a Va. inspired rifle but had read somewhere this box was attributed to a North Carolina maker,didn't know if it would be appropriate or not. thanks,Lonny
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Are you referring to the "double box" rifle as shown in this link?
http://www.americanhistoricservices.com/html/ky_longrifles.html
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Yes! thats the one.
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If I remember correctly, John Bivins claimed in his book on North Carlina rifles that the rifle came from there. Hershel House and Wallace [ I think] believe it comes from Va.
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In Bivins notes on the second edition, he added a brief note that acknowledges a possible Virginia origin on the assumption that Thomas Cellars was the maker. I believe the rifle actually came out of the Cellars family in Ohio a long time ago, and has traditionally been associated with Thomas Cellars. I am not extremely familiar with Cellars, but believe he came from Maryland and then perhaps worked in Virginia(?) and the family eventually ended up in Ohio. The gun is a brass mounted gun. So with regard to your project, I guess it would depend on your goal - I do not know if this gun is definitively attributed to Virginia, North Carolina or some other location at this point. Mel notes that it looks to be by the same hand as another early piece in Shumway as well. It is a great gun regardless of where it was made.
The box design is a great example of how Hershel developed his own spin on documented elements that he incorporates and morphs into his own artistic interpretation. He has built a number of rifles with variations on that patchbox - the ones I have seen he made up in iron, but always varied the shape and scale of the box to fit the gun.
There is a commercially available version of that patchbox but I feel it is a bit mis-shapen and much too big. It can be used for a nice look, but recommend cutting off a whole hinge knuckle on each side on both sets of hinges, reshape it a bit, and I like the look of the original with 4 screws better than the 2 screws that come with it.
Best regards
Guy
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My 2 cents worth- I don't think we will ever know for certain, as with most all Historic items there is alot of guess work at best- a good ole fashioned time machine would help - just as today everybody copies every body else and then move around- no differents in the 18th-and 19th centuries. There is a comparrison I will make- for years even in Kindigs Book the fine Rifles of Willy Higgins from Georgia were all thought to be Northern rifles because peopel up Nawth thought all the peoples down South were Hill Billies and made simple iron mounted rifles now- Higgins built the most elaborate of all- so we are all guessing alot and the experts as kindig were wrong on different rifles- but at least he said there was room for more research- so everybody get to researching.
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Thank you all for the input.Since the rifle I am currently building isn't truly PC to an early Virginia as I have made the lock plate and some of the mounts out of damascus, I might do a variation of this box. I really like it because as stated by others, it is smaller and does not cover up so much wood. thanks,Lonny