AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Dennis Glazener on December 01, 2015, 09:45:52 PM
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I am working on prepping hardware to be browned and I just dread polishing the lock >:( I hear others say they hate to inlet buttplates but I don't mind them at all, in fact I normally look forward to it. Others hate to inlet entry pipes but other than making the darn things I don't mind in-letting them. I dislike finishing iron/steel parts, I much prefer to finish brass but iron/steel is another thing.
Would love to hear how some of you polish your locks maybe I am doing it all wrong i.e. file/220 grit then 320/380 grit then brown (all by hand). If leaving it in the white I usually finish with 400 then use something to lightly age it.
Dennis
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Here's a question about the process Dennis. When you brown, do you produce a very smooth brown finish?
I like browning, but my browning is generally a somewhat rough texture, produced by letting the rusting to go on longer than needed and applying a lot of coats and restrained carding using a worn soft brass brush. Not everyone would like the finish that I produce, but it makes going beyond 220 grit polish a waste of effort. You could do a test piece to see the results if this sounds interesting.
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When you brown, do you produce a very smooth brown finish?
It depends. I build more mountain rifles than anything else and if I am trying to "antique" it I do the same as you. If to be otherwise I use maroon Scotch Guard pad or 0000 steel wool between coats of browning.
Its not the browning I hate so much as the filing/sanding/polishing etc
Dennis
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I'd gladly pay another $100, $200 to have a lock come all polished. Hahahaha.
You're not alone, Dennis. There is, BTW, a discussion of polishing materials and techniques in the Tutorials. They left out one ingredient: elbow grease. >:(
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=2585.0
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I follow your procedure Dennis. If something needs 60 minutes of polishing, it gets 60 minutes of polishing.
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elbow grease
Tom, I didn't really want to say it but that's what I think bothers me so much. Just no way to speed it up.
If something needs 60 minutes of polishing, it gets 60 minutes of polishing
Its all the little crooks/curves/crannies that bother me.
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I hate polishing trigger guards and all brass mounts. I also hate filing out Colerain barrels...... >:(
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I hate not knowing what the heck I'm doing! :-[
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I HATE filing dovetails in barrels, would much rather do anything else
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I just spent my whole day working on the trigger group in the picture below. The guard needed filing to even up the casting mould lines, then polishing first with 80 grit and then 120 grit abrasive cloth. The triggers from L & R also needed some alterations. The front trigger in this set has a nice wide shoe but the curve was wrong, and they needed polishing as well. The plate gets drilled and tapped 1/4" x 28 tpi and the lug on the guard gets a die run down it, and I made a 6 x 40 screw for the back end. Apart from breaking for lunch, and answering the phone once, this has consumed my whole day. Is it worth it...of course! But tedious. I guess I have to learn to work faster. Once it's inlet, I can go back and finish polishing to ~ 320.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy58%2FDTaylorSapergia%2FTaylorMadeGuns%2FHawken%2F100_5716_zpskw7ejrje.jpg&hash=b98054b3be2213500326d0157332f7697d323dc7) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/TaylorMadeGuns/Hawken/100_5716_zpskw7ejrje.jpg.html)
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Draw filing barrels is probably one of my least favourite tasks. [ Depending on the maker, it can be a real chore ]
I don't use the wax cast "bronze" mounts anymore, so don't have to contend with filing /polishing them. That was another pain in the *** job. Making most of the parts from scratch is what I like the best.
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Acer,
Where can I get some of that elbow grease and how much does it cost? Does TOW carry it?
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I file with a #1 Grobet Habilis set, then #2 swiss needle files, then abrasives (cloth or stones) 120/320/600 grit. I do all that and engrave before I inlet. Usually there is a little touchup at the end using the same procedure but not nearly as much work. I have a special jig to hold the lock plate in a vise for filing the face. I spent 24 hours filing and polishing my current lock. At least half the time spent building a rifle for me is filing and polishing mounts.
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Don't mind polishing,butt plates. Mine is inletting the lock. An trying to keep my chisels scary sharp. If it wasn't for my pet woodchuck wouldn't ever get it done.
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Polishing locks and possibly surprisingly, shaping lock panels.
Turtle
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Hi Dennis!
I use this a lot, learned it from a old toolmaker years ago, take a old butterknife? file a point and the rest you see on photo ;)
Bytheway, I hate finish the wood >:( dustalergy
Runar
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1131.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm556%2Frunastav%2FSAM_5069_zpsk2f3skg8.jpg&hash=5d1c1117f63d9d07360580d7d124635b7ad5568c) (http://s1131.photobucket.com/user/runastav/media/SAM_5069_zpsk2f3skg8.jpg.html)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1131.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm556%2Frunastav%2FSAM_5070_zps6h2t5eux.jpg&hash=47613ab0378613640e17bc57a91629127e54b5da) (http://s1131.photobucket.com/user/runastav/media/SAM_5070_zps6h2t5eux.jpg.html)
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Yeah, lock filing. Obviously I've done far fewer than most here but polishing locks is becoming more tedious each time I face the task. As others state there isn't anyway to speed the process, one just has to get at it knowing it is going to be slow going if done right. You examine your new lock with its even gray coating knowing that as soon as you touch it with a file you will discover all those casting pits hidden under the gray and some of them are the devil to file out. Plus they always seem to be at the most difficult place to reach with your files and smoothing media.
The last one I did went fairly quickly however. It was for a SMR and I decided right off to take it down as little as possible then brown it. I filed out the larger pitting and casting marks, hit it with course, medium and fine emery paper backed with wood and plastic blocks, taking care to remove all prior sanding marks. I then browned it carding with a fine wire wheel from Brownells. Came out looking fine for the rifle type, a workmanlike job.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FITf3LmFl.jpg&hash=96d896825919714fa1fdbb1adef026a7afecf78f)
dave
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runastav,
That's a neat idea, I have a few pieces of wood that I keep for similiar use but have to use a small nail in one end and that doesn't last very long. Maybe I can raid my wife's supply of stainless steel knives and come up with one.
Dennis
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I hated polishing the lock on this - got tired only 1/2 way through and said it was done. It isn't. The picture is deceiving.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv638%2FDarylS%2F1e090fc8.jpg&hash=d0bc81189876b3fd9777c5858c38fb1fa0a12260) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/DarylS/media/1e090fc8.jpg.html)
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I can't think of anything about any of it that I 'hate'. Though sometimes I do have to keep my eye on the prize, and drive on!
Robby
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Well I don't hate any of it or I would do something else. I admit some of it is more fun than others. I have been leaning toward forging mounts out of wrought iron. The last triggergaurd I filed, then went over it with a superfine half round file and burnished it with hardened steel. I think I like the look. It is not perfect, but looks good. The file is marked with three or four xs and "superfine" or extra fine" I think. This file is so fine you can hardly see the grooves in it. Do they still make these?
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Well I don't hate any of it or I would do something else. I admit some of it is more fun than others. I have been leaning toward forging mounts out of wrought iron. The last triggergaurd I filed, then went over it with a superfine half round file and burnished it with hardened steel. I think I like the look. It is not perfect, but looks good. The file is marked with three or four xs and "superfine" or extra fine" I think. This file is so fine you can hardly see the grooves in it. Do they still make these?
Maybe one of the Swiss file companies can help. I have a Baiter pillar file with a #8 cut which is said to be 233 teeth per inch.
Bob Roller
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I'll polish your locks for $150. ;D For Dennis or Acer, $50 will do. But just one special deal per lifetime. ::)
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Thanks for the promotional plug, Rich. I can't imagine polishing anyone else's locks, I can't stand to do my own. And I'm good at it, polished plastic molds for years. Ugh.
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Worked in a machine shop for years. Polishing metal, steel was just a daily thing. Rather do that than inlet.
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I hate the final sanding involved in the finishing of a project. I have PTSD from Junior high and being given only one piece of Sandpaper to finish the stool project for that quarter. No matter how much I sanded I couldnt get the scratches out of the pine boards. I had night mares about sanding and more sanding. AAAAGGGGGGaaaaaaaa Years Later I learned that you should throw out dull sandpaper only use it when it sharp like all our other wood working tools. It is not so bad now but the Scots in me finds me pulling that old paper back out of the garbage to put it in the used sandpaper shoe box.
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The thing I hate most about building a rifle or pistol is when I am not building one.
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There is very little about building a long rifle that does not take time or is tedious. I find the entry thimble to be the hardest part to inlet for me.
My problem is I am heavy handed and I always manage to get the skirt out of whack during the inletting process. I keep telling my self to slow down and be patient and just take a little more wood and it will fit. So I smoke the piece and put it in place and I tell my self to tap GENTLY. Trouble is after fifteen tries I get impatient and the next thing I know I am trying to straighten out the skirt.
Patience my son, patience :P
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I was a little slow getting to this, but here goes. Below are the stones and a sanding block I used for lock polishing. Together, they work well. All the stones are 1/8". My favorite are YL-Oils from Congress Tools in 120/320/600 grits. I use 120/320 1" emery cloth rolls and 600 grit silicon carbide sheets. The sanding block takes care of most areas.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/markelliottva/BBS+Stuff/polishingstuff1.jpg)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/markelliottva/BBS+Stuff/polishingstuff2.jpg)
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For me I still hate butt plates. After that, dealing with patchbox latches and push rods are still daunting for me. Runar, I love your simple polishing method. Now I have a use for those old butter knives.
Curt
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Ornate monster head pistol buttcap inletting... no comment, it got ugly
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Mark, that is an awesome sanding block!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
(this made my day!)
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Mark, that is an awesome sanding block!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
(this made my day!)
I an not quite sure how to take that, but I think I will choose to take it as a compliment. ;D
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Maybe a good explanation could be had for the "period correct" Phillips head screws, but I think it will be tough to explain the binder clips!!! :D :D :D
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Maybe a good explanation could be had for the "period correct" Phillips head screws, but I think it will be tough to explain the binder clips!!! :D :D :D
So, you don't like my creativity. :D The emery cloth isn't period correct either. Period correct would be just the block of wood with a leather or felt pad with loose abrasives. I have those. They are a pain to use. I just have to glue on some leather and remove the screws and binder clips. However, I have been using that sanding block the way it is a lot of years. I will modify it for the all handmade gun. Ok... ;D
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Mark, that is an awesome sanding block!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
(this made my day!)
I an not quite sure how to take that, but I think I will choose to take it as a compliment. ;D
I saved the picture. I'm going to make one!
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Mark, that is an awesome sanding block!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
(this made my day!)
I an not quite sure how to take that, but I think I will choose to take it as a compliment. ;D
I saved the picture. I'm going to make one!
Me, too!
BTW Mark, I believe it was a compliment.
-Ron
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That deep thin hole for a simple trigger, lots a chance for chip outs as the hole gets down around the sear hole..And wobble !!!! Tom
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Mark I like your sanding blocks. An that Sir is a compliment. Now if you could help me sharpen my chisels.
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Mark,
your sanding block is great, will make one tonight!!
Gus :)
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Don't enjoy installing patchbox release rods. Bob
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For Dennis or Acer, $50 will do. But just one special deal per lifetime.
Sounded good until I noticed that it was a one time special :D
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Final assembly is right up there. Its one of, if not THE least favorite thing. Its when things get dinged screw drivers slip, something decides to not fit anymore......
Dan
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Gotta admit that is a really nice sanding block. Kudos for sure....
Dan
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Boy Dan nails it for me. The final assembly never goes smooth for me either. It doesn't matter how many times I try it in the white the final is a test. Bob
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That is a nifty little gadget right there.
I was a little slow getting to this, but here goes. Below are the stones and a sanding block I used for lock polishing. Together, they work well. All the stones are 1/8". My favorite are YL-Oils from Congress Tools in 120/320/600 grits. I use 120/320 1" emery cloth rolls and 600 grit silicon carbide sheets. The sanding block takes care of most areas.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/markelliottva/BBS+Stuff/polishingstuff1.jpg)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/markelliottva/BBS+Stuff/polishingstuff2.jpg)
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The most hated task for me is the entry pipe. I don't think I have ever been happy with one. The hardest task is shaping lock panels, but I enjoy doing it.
Coryjoe
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Boy Dan nails it for me. The final assembly never goes smooth for me either. It doesn't matter how many times I try it in the white the final is a test. Bob
Then there are guns that don't want to leave .... and.... Well it can get "unpleasant" But I had more trouble with this when I was doing custom guns from Shiloh Sharps. Some were just REALLY bad. Had a Ballard do this too me once too. !@*%&@ triggers stopped working and could not be fixed. Time critical of course AARRGGHG! Gremlins it has to be gremlins. I don't do ANYTHING to a schedule anymore. Like Harry Pope said (might have been a sign in his shop) "Take your work when its well done or take it someplace else".
Dan
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Final assembly is right up there. Its one of, if not THE least favorite thing. Its when things get dinged screw drivers slip, something decides to not fit anymore......
Dan
That can be a test of patience. I can sometimes spend a whole day putting a gun together for the last time. Especially if there has been a change in the weather since it was last together. :P
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Thing I hate most is fixing my screwups!!
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Final assembly. That's when the "shop gremlins" show up for a visit and decide to make some of your parts not fit any more.
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Thing I hate most is fixing my screwups!!
Amen to that.
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Ditto!
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Okay, the entry thimble may boarder on hate! >:( ;D
Robby
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Thing I hate most is fixing my screwups!!
Me too and no matter how well a project has gone there will be some screw-up on my part.
In my younger days I worked as a finish carpenter. An old, very experienced trim carpenter told me that the difference in a good carpenter and a mediocre one is how well he disguises his mistakes. I suppose the same philosophy would apply to gun building. ;)
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I just hate that everything takes me soooooooooooooooooo @!*% long.
Rci
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It changes for me with each build. Making a trigger and nosecap on my last went smoothly and both turned out just right the first time. I was looking forward to them this time. After making three nosecaps before success and now working on the fourth trigger, they are about tied.... ;)
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To me the final assembly is the thing that I don't look forward to. If the gun is fitted tight and everything works in the white. After the coatings on the iron and wood are done, things change. Spent two days doing the final assembly on many rifle and pistols.
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I'm a new builder, so every task is met with trepidation and excitement, usually followed by frustration and disappointment....
There was a vote earlier for "fixing my mistakes." That would be my first vote, except that I find fixing my mistakes to be satisfying as well as a learning experience, and I think it is a necessary skill.
So, my vote is for cleaning up and polishing brass castings as well as locks. Seems to take forever, I have no technique or skill at it, and generally think I take 3 times as long as it should. Nothing is worse then knowing you must be doing it wrong...
Cheers,
Chowmi
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Chowmi...you are probably not doing it wrong at all. Some of the jobs in the making of a muzzle loader are tedious, seem to go on too long, and may become frustrating. Perseverance will get you there. It is not a race...enjoy the journey.
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Taylor you are so right. It is a journey with some interesting pot holes along the way.
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Chowmi...you are probably not doing it wrong at all. Some of the jobs in the making of a muzzle loader are tedious, seem to go on too long, and may become frustrating. Perseverance will get you there. It is not a race...enjoy the journey.
but I WANT it NOW!!!!...like a drive thru window!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D ::)
I work on them sometimes for days...then one is hung up waiting for me.....it's just sitting there..........waiting................waiting....................ahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!
marc n tomtom
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I hate selling them but doing so supports my gun building addiction. It's a vicious circle....
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I hate the time I have wasted over the years, crawling around on the floor looking for a fly. I now disassemble over a plastic container, and shed fewer tears.