AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Bluesmoke on June 27, 2016, 02:29:33 PM
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Pillow ticking at one time was available by the yard or maybe half yard as sheets from folks like Ox Yoke.
Now days all I can find in Australia is pre cut pillow ticking patches. I have tried the local fabric suppliers but I fear all that is available is stock of ever declining quality stock made in Asia.There is no thickness measurement consistency between bolts.
I take it that the availability of only pre cut patches is just a profit maximization ploy.
I have given up on pillow ticking and now use seeded homespun fabric about .015" thick.
Was the reason for using pillow ticking that the pattern made it easy to cut strips or is there more than that?
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Bluesmoke,
I know a lot of shooters in this area (USA, Florida) that used pillow ticking for patching were finding difficulty getting it in 100% cotton. And as most of it now comes from China, the quality varies greatly between batches. I've used denim, drill and even light canvas, all available in 100% cotton, for years. I usually buy a few yards at a time and stash it away because it doesn't go bad and I don't have to worry about locating it for sale for some time. I don't know what the fabric stores in Australia carry, but you might think about trying some of that if available.
Mole Eyes
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I have given up on "ticking" especially the Chinese stuff and went to Army Duck from BigDuckCanvas.com I don't know if they would ship over seas but it might be worth a try as they are very accommodating people. I've never had consistent results from denim. The army duck is thicker than ticking but shoots very well in all my rifles and is very consistent from batch to batch as I have ordered it several times.
RB
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RH
Do you have an idea of the thickness of the army duck or the other cotton ducks sold by Big Duck? Thanks. Tim
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Everybody seems to measure differently but I use a micrometer and crunch it some the old pillow ticking that I have measures about .016 to .017 the Army Duck measures about .018 to .020 depending on how hard you crunch it. The Duck that I am talking about is the 10.10 oz Army Duck and is a very tight weave and very tough. They do have a thicker duck that is 12 oz I believe but is a more open weave and measure .022 to .024.
Good Luck!
RB
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Thanks for the reply I'll give it a try. Tim
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The 10 ounce denim I get measures .021" to .0225" depending on the maker. Those measurements are taken using my 'middle' dial calipers, squeezed as hard as I can using my index finger and thumb on the jaws.
This material works in all my rifles using balls .005" smaller than the bore. In the one deep groove Getz barrel I have, a ball .010" smaller than the bore will not give a seal with 10 ounce denim. The .010" to .012" deep rifling will seal with the 10 ounce denim - accuracy improves, however, with the larger .005" under ball.
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Pillow ticking, mattress ticking, pocket drill and denim are used because the weave is very tight.
It is very difficult to find good material for patching. I wish you luck.
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RB, A couple of hours ago I was in a Joannes. I saw a bolt of a tight weave material called a 100% cotton Duck. Another bolt stated that it was 100% cotton Duck Canvas. I have no idea as to the thickness as this was an unplanned stop and I didn't have my mic. It was fairly stiff. Is this the stuff you're referring to ? Does it make a patch? Thanks.
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Nope! Pick up a piece from Jo Anns and hold it up to the light bet that you can see through it if not then it might be OK? The stuff that I am talking about is from www.bigduckcanvas.com. Army Duck 10.10 oz.
RB
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Thanks for the tip.Im going to order some I looked at the sight They have all different weights 100 percent cotton and its made in the U.S.A.
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Back when our Wallyworld carried fabrics I got some pretty good pillow ticking that measured from .015" to .017" and it worked. Later when they stopped carrying fabrics I started going to JoAnns. There I ran across mattress ticking that measured .024" with me squeezing the caliper jaws with my thumb and forefinger as hard as I could, as described by Daryl. But I measure slightly differently. The squeezed thickness - .028" just using the closing wheel of the caliper - actually measured about .022". My method was to squeeze the jaws several times and use the number it moved back to which was .024". Just by holding it in my hands it's obvious the material is much thicker than pillow ticking. It made for a tighter load, higher velocities and less fouling. I shoot mostly ball that's .010" under bore dia; will be going to .005" ball in some calibers.
Just thought I'd mention this FWIW.
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I always wash and dry my patching material before using it. Put it through a hot water cycle with some borax and/or super washing soda, never detergent. Then put it on a hot setting in the dryer, NO fabric softener.
Seems to tighten the weave even more and the patching becomes more absorbent as well as it washes out any sizing that was added at the mill.
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I run my denim through the washer twice - once with the "greennie" soap (not green soap nor detergent), then once without any soap.
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The fabric (seeded Homespun-thats what its called) I am currently using is close enough( in thickness and thread count) to the original ox yoke pillow ticking I took with me to the fabric store. The lady in the shop is getting used to a man rocking up and measuring cotton cloths with a micrometer.
I wash the fabric and am lucky enough to have come up with a good combo of .535 ball and .015" patch over 55gns of German Wano in a Pedersoli Tryon. I don't hunt at all but the combo works really well out to 100 meters for killing paper and knocking down steel and ringing gongs.
I purchased Dutch Schultz's sytem many years ago and its has worked wonders for me. I subbed Ballistol for soluble oil though.
As an aside, is Dutch still with us? I liked the old fella, but lost track of him after 2008.
Cheers
Thanks for the responses
Cheers
Bluesmoke - off to a week long Rendezvous tomorrow
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Bluesmoke,
Dutch is still with us and pops up from time to time around the net.
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I only wash mine once but it does, indeed, tighten the weave.
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As was already stated washing removes the sizing that was applied to the fabric at the mill. When you measure the material at the store it has the sizing in it and the fibers will not compress much but after washing the sizing is removed and the material "fluffs up" the fabric will compress more than originally measured at the store. So -- try to get a little thicker fabric than what you are looking to end up with when shopping for fabric. For me MOST of my rifles that are .50 cal and above will shoot well with 0.018" - 0.022" close weave fabric and my calibers under .50 (.45, .40, .36) shoot well with 0.015" to 0.018" close weave fabric. I mostly shoot paper so I use either spit or windshield wiper solvent for lube.
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If you are having trouble finding pillow ticking at the fabric stores Down Under, there are some other patching materials you might try to find at the local resale shop:
Cotton Levi's or denim pants: Leg portions, except around the front of the knee, are usually of a uniform thickness in pants from the same manufacturer. These make thick patches.
100% cotton T-shirts: Thickness and tightness of weave varies, but tends to be uniform among shirts from the same manufacturer. These make thinner patches.
100% cotton sheets: The higher the thread count the better. You can judge by feel: the thicker and softer, the better. These may make the thinnest patches.
The above can also be used for cleaning patches.
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Linen table cloths and napkins at the second hand store work well also.
Restaurants and hotels are a good source too.
One table cloth makes a lot of patches!
Cheers,
Smoketown
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Is 100% truly 100% cotton? My reasoning is if it isn't you could bugger up a barrel
pretty quick. Years ago I was taught that if it burns to char you are good to go. If small beads show up you got something other than pure cotton. Using this burn test in Joanne's Fabric store wears out your welcome real quick so I do this when I get home. Have never had a problem. A fellow at the club years ago showed up with blue striped pillow ticking and proceeded to shoot with it. Unfortunately, it was not pure cotton. He had an awful time clearing his barrel.
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Is 100% truly 100% cotton?
The cloth should be, or it would open a legal can of worms. Some people are allergic to synthetics, wool, etc. And then, there is the entire issue of Shatness. However, the stitching might be different, and that is why I cut around the seams, and don't try to open them.
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We tried some of that 10oz. cotton duck today. It was washed twice. It got so thick that both a .490 and a .530 ball with mink oil was a tight hammer fit in a Rice barrel. No telling how deformed the ball was. I am going to order some .526 balls from Track to try with it. It is tough stuff. Too tight for a hunting load. You would break a ramrod trying to reload in the woods. Went back to a .020" patch, and the balls loaded properly.
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Pillow ticking at one time was available by the yard or maybe half yard as sheets from folks like Ox Yoke.
Now days all I can find in Australia is pre cut pillow ticking patches. I have tried the local fabric suppliers but I fear all that is available is stock of ever declining quality stock made in Asia.There is no thickness measurement consistency between bolts.
I take it that the availability of only pre cut patches is just a profit maximization ploy.
I have given up on pillow ticking and now use seeded homespun fabric about .015" thick.
Was the reason for using pillow ticking that the pattern made it easy to cut strips or is there more than that?
Blue smoke, I just got a yard of mattress ticking form australianfabrictraders.com.au, for about $30 Au posted, mikes in at .015, is pure cotton and seems the same material I have had and used for years from Green River in Adelaide. I will see if I can get swatches of all their ticking to mike up. I have just washed it to get rid of the sizing, but have not tried it yet. I am going to whistle up a fox and give it a go this weekend.
Cheers
Heeler
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Cut up an old pair of Dickie's denim work jeans tonight. The denim in the legs measures .024 - .026. I was looking for a thicker patch than ticking I have been getting .018. This should work well, and will test this weekend.
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Hey RB, thanks for the info about Big Duck. Looked at their site and seems they have just what I'm looking for. Wouldn't have thought of them or Joanne's. You said you liked the 10.10 oz, and the 12 oz they sell seems to have a looser weeve. Others above have posted that they wash the fabric, sometimes twice, and it seems to tighten the weeve. Have you tried that with the 12oz. I'm not a clothes expert but every time I buy new shirts and was them in warm or hot water they shrink. I guess at the price of a yard of material I could experiment, but figured I'd ask.
Also, I used to have a set of punches for cutting cards for BP rifle cartridges and shotgun waddings etc. I made several out of black iron pipes of different diameters to cut patches for rifles, but they ware out quickly. Who makes tool steel punches for patch cutting? Thanks, Mike
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I have used the 12 oz some it is thicker and the weave is not as tight as the Army Duck 10.10 oz. I do wash my patching at least once but I never have really seen any advantage to washing twice? I use the Army 10.10 in most of my rifles and the only thing that gives me a slight edge (a very slight I might add) in accuracy over the Army Duck is Teflon treated patching but your mileage might vary.
Good Luck.
RB
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That 10.10 oz army duck looks like great patch material.
Anyone ever measured it's thickness..???
Thanks
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In my experience most yardage shops, and all the big box stores, don't have a clue what the material they sell is actually comprised of. Pillow ticking in the past had to be tightly woven to keep feathers from escaping, there is absolutely no reason to weave this material this tight anymore, so they don't. I find that high quality linen used in tablecloths, and napkins, are for the most part still woven quite tightly. Also since these products aren't worn as clothing, they don't suffer the wear clothing does, so the thickness stays uniform. Linen does't lose its strength from normal exposure to sunlight like cotton does either.
Hungry Horse
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I don't know how cost affective it would be, but there's always Egyptian cotton linen at 300 threads per inch. Sheets, pillow cases, etc. sold at higher end stores like Macys and Belks. I'm not sure of the thickness but I doubt you could find a tighter weave.
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MR. Steele, I have a micrometer on a piece of the 10.10 army duck. Just using the ratchet, on the end of the thimble, I get .023, if I really crank down on it, I get about .016. As RB stated though your results may vary. RB talked me into getting some, I'm very satisfied.
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Thank you. That's enough information to get some on the way, and give it a try.
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You bet, hope it helped.
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With a .530 ball and the 10.1oz. patching I just about had to climb the ramrod to get it down a .54cal. Getz barrel. It is tough and thick if that is what you are looking for. Way more work than I want to do to just shoot some. May end up trying .520s.
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Pillow ticking at one time was available by the yard or maybe half yard as sheets from folks like Ox Yoke.
Now days all I can find in Australia is pre cut pillow ticking patches. I have tried the local fabric suppliers but I fear all that is available is stock of ever declining quality stock made in Asia.There is no thickness measurement consistency between bolts.
I take it that the availability of only pre cut patches is just a profit maximization ploy.
I have given up on pillow ticking and now use seeded homespun fabric about .015" thick.
Was the reason for using pillow ticking that the pattern made it easy to cut strips or is there more than that?
Most of the ticking in America now is made in a large Communist country is asia and is so weak its useless. I switched to Linen.
Dan
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I buy my patch material, denim, duck (I think), and pillow ticking from Jo-Ann fabrics and have no idea of their origin, although China seems plausible. However, I've never had a problem of a "blown" or torn patch that could be attributed to shoddy materials (no pun intended). A sharp land [and cut patches] yes, but that problem has been addressed.
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I get my patching material from Jo-ann's, too, and so far it has been quite good. After washing it always measures from about .022" to .024" which loads rather easily and keeps the bore clean.