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General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Rolf on July 10, 2016, 07:01:19 PM

Title: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: Rolf on July 10, 2016, 07:01:19 PM
A double barrel pistol was never really on my wish list until my visit at Dyson. He was rebuilding an original wogden double pistol. The Stock was to bad to salvage, so he was restocking at the original parts. I fell in love with the pistol and ended up buying two 10" long, damacus barrel blanks, suitable for making a copy of the gun. I also order a casting of the standing breech. Dyson also had casting of the Locks, but these come without the guts and springs. Blackley can supply complet lockkits for an almost identical wodgen pistol and I 've sent him an email asking about their availablity.

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi73.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi202%2Frolfkt%2FDouble%2520barrel%2520wogden%2520pistol%2FWP_20160704_10_01_32_Pro_zpsge0tdsyj.jpg&hash=76e19c449221ef79fae4a16d45ae1f0d4c64c270) (http://s73.photobucket.com/user/rolfkt/media/Double%20barrel%20wogden%20pistol/WP_20160704_10_01_32_Pro_zpsge0tdsyj.jpg.html)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi73.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi202%2Frolfkt%2FDouble%2520barrel%2520wogden%2520pistol%2FWP_20160704_10_01_41_Pro_zpseldybmux.jpg&hash=00aa528956c3c5b47ac6319b0fda524b07df2dc4) (http://s73.photobucket.com/user/rolfkt/media/Double%20barrel%20wogden%20pistol/WP_20160704_10_01_41_Pro_zpseldybmux.jpg.html)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi73.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi202%2Frolfkt%2FDouble%2520barrel%2520wogden%2520pistol%2FWP_20160704_10_02_09_Pro_zpslyk2so0g.jpg&hash=6fba2a6826481a336eff9579de5262a8a5938c67) (http://s73.photobucket.com/user/rolfkt/media/Double%20barrel%20wogden%20pistol/WP_20160704_10_02_09_Pro_zpslyk2so0g.jpg.html)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi73.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi202%2Frolfkt%2FDouble%2520barrel%2520wogden%2520pistol%2FWP_20160704_10_01_55_Pro_zpslbwjlmir.jpg&hash=d17a3020218c4635f21752a9441846d12224492a) (http://s73.photobucket.com/user/rolfkt/media/Double%20barrel%20wogden%20pistol/WP_20160704_10_01_55_Pro_zpslbwjlmir.jpg.html)

The barrel dimensions on this pistol:
Caliber 0.54, smooth bore.
Length 9". 
Breech 0.827"(21mm) across the flats.
Waist 0.650"(16.5mm) across the flats. The waist is 3"from the muzzel.
Muzzel 0.708"(18mm) across the flats.
Wall thickness at waist  0.055"(1,39mm)

The bores in the blanks I've bougth will clean up to 0.54-0.58. I hope to avoid lining these barrels, because I fear lining will make it hard to get close to the original barrel profile.(Not enough left of the damascus tube to profil). If I have to line them, I'll be making the liners from a 22 Caliber rifle barrel.

Best regards
Rolf
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi73.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi202%2Frolfkt%2FDouble%2520barrel%2520wogden%2520pistol%2FWP_20160710_15_52_34_Pro_zps7vrxvgcb.jpg&hash=40f86cd1d3ef01f667318d5898649d9e10eb2247) (http://s73.photobucket.com/user/rolfkt/media/Double%20barrel%20wogden%20pistol/WP_20160710_15_52_34_Pro_zps7vrxvgcb.jpg.html)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi73.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi202%2Frolfkt%2FDouble%2520barrel%2520wogden%2520pistol%2FWP_20160710_13_50_43_Pro_zpswztlklex.jpg&hash=a3d4e79c5c381903098b7d2c7aeaec0aedb815c8) (http://s73.photobucket.com/user/rolfkt/media/Double%20barrel%20wogden%20pistol/WP_20160710_13_50_43_Pro_zpswztlklex.jpg.html)

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi73.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi202%2Frolfkt%2FDouble%2520barrel%2520wogden%2520pistol%2FWP_20160710_13_50_19_Pro_zps5d7byn8a.jpg&hash=891dc3ae6f0492522637248c188d5aa384d4a2c6) (http://s73.photobucket.com/user/rolfkt/media/Double%20barrel%20wogden%20pistol/WP_20160710_13_50_19_Pro_zps5d7byn8a.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on July 10, 2016, 07:32:33 PM
Rolf:  I have a copy of Johnson's "English Pistol Pictorial".  In it are many pistols with barrels much thinner than yours are without the liners.  If you ream them and end up with .58 cal bores, you will still have almost 1/8" barrel walls at the breeches....827" - .580 = .247 divided by two = .1235".  If this was my build, I would proof them as they are.  Use a shotgun style barrel tenon...rod passes through a thimble integral with the tenon, soldered to the barrels...no dovetail.
Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: Bob Roller on July 10, 2016, 08:00:29 PM

The "Guts and springs" ARE the lock.The other parts are just a chassis.I preferred the L&R externals and think
they are better castings.The same goes for the Chambers late Ketland. These are what I'm familiar with so can
say from experience that they work.

Bob Roller
Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: jerrywh on July 10, 2016, 10:15:22 PM
 If you don't use Wogdon lock externals you will not have a Wogdon pistol.  I have built some of these wogdon locks and will tell you that L&R internals as delivered do not work.  For one thing they are not for a safety type lock. Even then the main spring will not work because it is too long.  Also the sear on a Wogdon lock has a strange configuration. You will have to be a master lock maker to replicate this gun accurately. My advise is don't give up and don't give in to the easy way. Do it right. Learn what you have to learn. That is the fun of all this.
Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: Bob Roller on July 10, 2016, 10:40:45 PM
If you don't use Wogdon lock externals you will not have a Wogdon pistol.  I have built some of these wogdon locks and will tell you that L&R internals as delivered do not work.  For one thing they are not for a safety type lock. Even then the main spring will not work because it is too long.  Also the sear on a Wogdon lock has a strange configuration. You will have to be a master lock maker to replicate this gun accurately. My advise is don't give up and don't give in to the easy way. Do it right. Learn what you have to learn. That is the fun of all this.

Let's see this special Wogdon mechanism. It won't be a "Wogdon"no matter how close the parts are copied
and the same goes for "Hawken" rifles.They mostly came from St.Louis and none of them had a really high quality
lock.Useable,yes but that was all.

Bob Roller
Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: jerrywh on July 11, 2016, 12:03:20 AM
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjwh-flintlocks.net%2Fwogdon3.jpg&hash=da6ff46f13d93ad58743e29d709498ee6eb4137c)

  This is a Wogdon lock I had a few years ago. I have some castings for a right hand but no left hand, If Dyson has Both I would buy them and make the internals for the left one. I am now making a double Russian tula flint pistol.  I have converted a L&R bails to a safety lock before with the same internals.
Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: jerrywh on July 11, 2016, 12:12:34 AM
 Great mews.
  Blackley and son in England now has both lock sets in full with all internals.v Tell Kevin I sent you.

http://www.blackleyandson.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=wogdon&PN=Lock_Sets_English_Flat_Faced%2ehtml#aLS
Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: Bob Roller on July 11, 2016, 01:48:52 AM
Great mews.
  Blackley and son in England now has both lock sets in full with all internals.v Tell Kevin I sent you.

http://www.blackleyandson.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=wogdon&PN=Lock_Sets_English_Flat_Faced%2ehtml#aLS

How much in US$ is 110 pounds sterling??

Bob Roller
Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: Bob Roller on July 11, 2016, 01:53:10 AM
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjwh-flintlocks.net%2Fwogdon3.jpg&hash=da6ff46f13d93ad58743e29d709498ee6eb4137c)

  This is a Wogdon lock I had a few years ago. I have some castings for a right hand but no left hand, If Dyson has Both I would buy them and make the internals for the left one. I am now making a double Russian tula flint pistol.  I have converted a L&R bails to a safety lock before with the same internals.


You're right about that sear.It's an odd one for sure.

Bob Roller
Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: Chowmi on July 11, 2016, 02:05:26 AM
110 GBP is $142 at the current rate.  If you are going to do it, buy them now.  The Pound is at a historical low.  I've never seen it so low since before I lived there in 2002.
Normally, 110 GBP would be about 170-200$.

Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: Bob Roller on July 11, 2016, 02:15:40 AM
110 GBP is $142 at the current rate.  If you are going to do it, buy them now.  The Pound is at a historical low.  I've never seen it so low since before I lived there in 2002.
Normally, 110 GBP would be about 170-200$.



Thank you. I am not planning to buy any of these parts but was curious as to cost.

Bob Roller
Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: Rolf on July 14, 2016, 07:16:51 PM
Great mews.
  Blackley and son in England now has both lock sets in full with all internals.v Tell Kevin I sent you.

http://www.blackleyandson.com/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=wogdon&PN=Lock_Sets_English_Flat_Faced%2ehtml#aLS
Thanks Jerry, I've placed an order for a pair of Lock kits.

Best regards
Rolf
Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: jerrywh on July 14, 2016, 08:16:01 PM
 I have purchased several locks and other parts from Blackley. They are the best castings I have ever seen equal to chambers. Kevin is a great guy to deal with and they are totally honest.
Title: Re: Wogden double pistol build
Post by: Bob Roller on July 14, 2016, 11:46:22 PM
I have purchased several locks and other parts from Blackley. They are the best castings I have ever seen equal to chambers. Kevin is a great guy to deal with and they are totally honest.
4


They must have retooled the lock moulds because all I have seen that came from
the foggy isle looked like they were cast in a play dough mould and to me were unusable.

Bob Roller