AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Bill Raby on April 07, 2017, 09:16:32 AM
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Time to get a band saw. Right now I go to my dad's house and use his. Its a 35 mile drive and I have to go through Minneapolis to get there. Ideal one would be something that I can clamp down to the workbench, then put on a shelf when I am not using it. I don't have a whole lot of space so I would prefer to avoid a big, permanent set up one. Thickest piece of wood I would ever be likely to cut is a rifle blank. It would be nice if I could find something that could do some light metal cutting also.
I looked at some cheap 9 inch band saws. I like the size and weight, but they look to be pretty light duty machines. Am I looking for something that does not exist? Is a full size band saw my only option? Does anyone know of a good high quality bench top band saw? Don't really care about price. I would rather save up and get a good one than go out and buy one that is not going to do the job tomorrow.
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It depends on how many builds you intend to make....if you build 2-4 per year , I'd drive through Minneapolis and use your dad's. If more than the above number of builds and you intend to continue building, possibly having your own bandsaw would be an advantage.
If you can find a bench mounted bandsaw that meets your requirements, buy it...but access to your dad's sure does sound good due to your limited space.....Fred
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A bench top band saw isn't going to have the guts to cut a stock blank.
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Don't buy a 3 wheel bandsaw. I had one called a "14 in. commercial bandsaw". It was junk. 2 of my neighbors have bought small bandsaws lately for decoys. They both still have to come use my bandsaw because there's are not up to the task.
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I bought my latest band saw at a farm auction for $10. I wore out the previous two..... band saws need to be built out of steel and aluminum, not plastic.
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Mike Brooks is correct on all points! Either continue to make the drive to see your Dad or locate a shop in your area. You will not be happy with a "bench top".
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I would rather buy a decent used saw than buy a new one. Search Craigslist, it may take a while but they are out there.
Dale H
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Hi Bill,
IMO a 14" bandsaw is about the smallest I would want to use for stock blanks. The 14" refers to the depth of the throat of the saw and you need much of that space to maneuver around the curves of the stock. Also, saws smaller than 14" tend to have anemic motors without the power to drive through 3" of wood. Also, bench top band saws have shorter blades, often 62" compared with full height saws that usually have blades >100". The short blade means that every tooth passes through the wood more often than teeth on longer blades. The result is they dull faster. A bench top saw will spit saw dust over your bench even if you have dust capture, so you will have to clean up your bench top after every sawing and if the bench is butted against a wall, you will have limited options how you can maneuver a long blank around to get it cut.
dave
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I went through two of the stand up Delta saws they sell at Lowes. They lasted about 15 years combined. I found a Rockwell on Craigslist. I put new tires on it from Woodcraft. It has a cast iron frame . It will be my bandsaw from now on . If anything on it goes out it is worth fixing . A lot of the stuff being sold today is throw away , if something breaks , it`s not worth fixing . One of the most important things on any bandsaw is the type of guides it has . Most of the better ones will have roller guides . The cheap ones not. JMHO
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My bandsaw was purchased from Grizzly Tools, about 20 years ago, 14 inch job, still going strong.
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Mike Brooks is correct on all points! Either continue to make the drive to see your Dad or locate a shop in your area. You will not be happy with a "bench top".
Mike is right about bandsaws. These little bench top types are OK if you're making model planes
but will NOT handle a gun stock with any degree of satisfaction. Metal cutting bandsaws are a
thing unto themselves.I have a 12" model,probably Atlas from 1940 and it has a speed reducer
thru belts and a gear box and it has an 80" blade. Today I will put a "tire" on the lower wheel
so the blade will not be running directly on the wheel.
50 years ago I drove to Bill Large's shop to use his milling machine and then bought a new one of
my own and still use it nearly every day. It's only 14 miles to where Bill's shop was and he liked
the way I left his mill,cleaned off and the vise parallel with the "T" slots in the bed.
Bob Roller
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I started out with an American made 12" Sears Craftsman, only 1/2hp but would rip up a thick osage bow stave if I had a good sharp 1/2" 3tpi blade on it.
Next I bought a friend's 3/4hp, 14" Rigid when he was down on his luck and needed money, it was a nightmare. It was so poorly constructed the wheels wouldn't align. I had it at warranty repair twice, they said they worked on it but when I took it apart to check their work I found they had done nothing. Rigid (lifetime warranty) sent me a supposedly new saw that was missing 1/3 of the parts. I swore off Rigid saws.
I bought a 1 3/4hp, 14" commercial Griz with all the bells and whistles about 15 years ago and haven't looked back.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv181%2Fekrewson%2Fbow%2520making%2F100_0524.jpg&hash=862e73ab9b5fd3838f50705a96286548e4004d44) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ekrewson/media/bow%20making/100_0524.jpg.html)
There are some incredible bandsaw deals on Craig's list from time to time. I still recommend one of the old Craftsman 12" saws to fledgling bow makers if they can pick it up for less than $100.
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I second the Craftsman 12". I bought a used one almost 20 years ago, for $75, and still use it nearly every day to cut out 2" thick laminated bow handles. I have cut out curly maple stock blanks with it in the past. it's just big enough to do that job if the motor is good, and the blade is new and correct for the wood thickness.
The saw is made of cast iron, and the blade guides are robust and can adjust to many sizes of blades.
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Bill,
From the posts you already have you can see that those who are in need of a bandsaw routinely opt for the bigger, more powerful machines. I am a hobby builder, not a pro! I build one gun a year, if I am lucky. Some years I'm not lucky. I have had a little Delta 8" bench-top unit for a decade or so. I use it about once a month for small jobs and once a year to profile-out a rifle stock. It is not as powerful (fast) as the bigger units. the blade tracking is not all that good, so I have to cut "out-side the line" to make sure I am left with enough wood. But, at this stage of my life, its not worth getting rid of because I don't have the physical space to put a larger unit.
You have to weigh your options and find the solution that makes the most sense for you.
Best Regards
John Cholin
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Don't waste your money on the toy ones. Listen to the pros.
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I had one of those little bench tops. I finally threw it in the trash after ruining a lot of wood with it.
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I have two bench top Delta Homecraft 10" bandsaws that I have cut a bunch of stocks with. One has a narrow blade with ten teeth per inch for cutting tight curves. The othe has a wider blade for doing long rips. There are times I could use more than than 10" of depth, but not often enough to buy a new saw.
Hungry Horse
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I bought a 250 dollar Harbour Freight 14 incher,.....I haven't found anything it won't do as good as any other 14inch saw, yet..... and I build a fair amount of furniture with thick Maple. the only upgrade I made was to install ball bearing blade guides because they come with some type of plastic guide that really doesn't work very well. that's the only thing I found that is outwardly lacking about the saw. I ran hard maple guides that I made for a while and when I wanted more precision tracking from the saw for building a wooden clock movement, I installed the BB guides. what you have to consider is that all of the 14 inch saws (including Delta) use pretty much the same frame from the same couple of Chinese foundries. if you want best 14 incher made, look for an old Rockwell or Porter Cable. same design, but completely built here...... better castings and better guides and upper wheel adjuster, most likely better motor too. you'll pay as much for an old worn out Rockwell or Porter Cable as for a newer Chinese made saw. I will say that if you plan on putting a throat extension on it and resawing wider than 6 inch stuff, it pays to go through the expense of finding and rebuilding one of the older P-C's or Rockwells....... by "older" I mean pre-1970 +/-.
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I second the Harbor Freight saw. Nothing fancy; it just works.
Roger B.
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I got a Shopsmith bandsaw at a garage sale. I made a stand and added a motor to make complete bandsaw. The tyres were bad so I go new ones. I do like that it is self ajusting for blade tracking. I don't like the odd ball blade length. Given a choice I'd get another saw that uses a readily available blade and chuck this one.
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Spend sometime on your local Craigslist. Buy at least a 12" bandsaw, that has a motor using a belt. Spend some time learning how to "tune" your bandsaw for the optimum performance, Google "tune your bandsaw". Like mentioned, the HF bandsaw is a good one after it is "fixed". But I bet in your area you will be able to find a Delta that is old school iron that will outlast your lifetime. It may not be there today or next month, but one will show up on your Craigslist.
Until then, use your dads bandsaw, most of old !@#$% enjoy it when you youngster come back and visit.
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I did not have to "fix" anything on my Harbor Freight saw. the ball bearing guides are simple retrofit that only the very best band saws come with as standard equipment, there is no "fix" involved there. guides something that everybody that uses a band saw will have different preferences and differing opinions about I don't think there is any 14 inch saw that comes standard with ball bearing guides...(Grizzly has them as an option on their 14 inch saws). my saw holds perfect alignment and holds it's tune as long and as well as the blade being used allows the tune to be held. I have had absolutely no problem with my HF saw what-so-ever.
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I've got a 14" Grizzly bandsaw and after the first blank was cut, bought ball bearing blade guides. The standard plastic guide blocks let the blade wander making it impossible to cut on the line. W/ the new blade guides have no complaints......Fred
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It looks like a small bench top saw is not going to work. The quality I have seen on the small ones just is not there. I was hoping that there was someone making saws built like the big ones, just smaller. I do have room for a big saw, but not by much. I just moved into the house a few months ago and I am trying not have it overflowing right away. After living in apartment for too many years I am all excited about finally being able to get the fun tools! But I can only fit so much. I won't be parking the car in the garage much longer.
Looking at the Woodcraft website. What do you think of this one? https://www.woodcraft.com/products/jet-15-bandsaw-3hp-model-jwbs-15-3?via=573621bd69702d0676000002%2C573621e069702d0676000f61%2C5764018e69702d3ae3000bf8
I have a Jet milling machine and its great. Would something like this work for light metal cutting? Best of all it is an inch bigger than my dad's saw. Ha!
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You don't need one that big but it would be nice to own, 2hp would be plenty enough.
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Ron W when I said went through I mean , wore out, tore up , etc. . One of them had the motor go out , on the other one the flimsy cast zinc or whatever it was made of top guide holder broke. Those saws just don`t hold up . Cutting one or two stocks is one thing , those two saws probably cut no more than 60 gunstock blanks apiece before being junk. Which really isn't that bad for as cheaply as they are made . My Rockwell has cut more than both of them and, still cuts very good..When it comes to bandsaws theres a lot of difference between cutting thin stuff and cutting a hard dense Maple board that`s 2 plus inches thick. If you plan on cutting many you better be prepared .I did add the roller guides , new tires and, a Baldor motor.As with any tool , you can buy cheap stuff over and over or you can buy the better stuff once.
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It looks like a small bench top saw is not going to work. The quality I have seen on the small ones just is not there. I was hoping that there was someone making saws built like the big ones, just smaller. I do have room for a big saw, but not by much. I just moved into the house a few months ago and I am trying not have it overflowing right away. After living in apartment for too many years I am all excited about finally being able to get the fun tools! But I can only fit so much. I won't be parking the car in the garage much longer.
Looking at the Woodcraft website. What do you think of this one? https://www.woodcraft.com/products/jet-15-bandsaw-3hp-model-jwbs-15-3?via=573621bd69702d0676000002%2C573621e069702d0676000f61%2C5764018e69702d3ae3000bf8
I have a Jet milling machine and its great. Would something like this work for light metal cutting? Best of all it is an inch bigger than my dad's saw. Ha!
Jet are decent tools. always have been since their introduction in the US. although you don't need to spend that much on bandsaw for general wood working, you will be happy with it. most Jet tools are copies of Rockwell or porter cable tools whose patents have expired. they are generally made with similar quality alloys as the Us made counter part,.... I have seen that many of the earlier Jet 14 in. bandsaw and 10 inch tablesaw part numbers are made up of a prefex Jet number, followed by a Rockwell number for the same part. I would recommend a typical (any brand) 14 inch band saw on it's own stand as the minimum saw for any shop handling any wood other than Balsa. I run 2 and 3 inch sugar and big leaf maple in my 14 incher all the time, building sleigh beds, and the only problems have to do with supporting the size of the pieces I am cutting, which would be an issue on any make of 14 inch band saw. to be honest the size of a band saw has more to do with the size of work piece than any other aspect......specifically, the size of the table, to support large and/or long pieces and the depth of the throat to get large pieces past the blade. anything a gunstock maker or average wood worker might run on a band saw, can easily be handled by any one of the typical 14 in. saws by any maker. sometimes we connect price with quality, in may cases an entry level 14 inch band saw will have a frame made by the same maker as a "professional quality" saw. the real difference in 14 inch saws comes in the time period that they are or were made in. beyond about 1970 +/-, all of them are pretty much the same,.....you simply end up paying for the name on your saw. pre-1970 +/- the Rockwells and /or Porter cables stand proud as the best you can get. if I were to look for a 14 inch saw today, I wood look for a machine of the fore-mentioned make and manufacture date. they are visually and of course mechanically better in all aspects. this holds true for just about any home shop or light commercial tool of the era.
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Ron W when I said went through I mean , wore out, tore up , etc. . One of them had the motor go out , on the other one the flimsy cast zinc or whatever it was made of top guide holder broke. Those saws just don`t hold up . Cutting one or two stocks is one thing , those two saws probably cut no more than 60 gunstock blanks apiece before being junk. Which really isn't that bad for as cheaply as they are made . My Rockwell has cut more than both of them and, still cuts very good. As far as running too much tension on my blades , I`ve used metal cutting Rockwell bandsaws that had coolant , autofeed , and bladewelders so I`m confident that I know as much about setting up my bandsaw , as you do .When it comes to bandsaws theres a lot of difference between cutting thin stuff and cutting a hard dense Maple board that`s 2 plus inches thick. If you plan on cutting many you better be prepared .I did add the roller guides , new tires and, a Baldor motor.As with any tool , you can buy cheap stuff over and over or you can buy the better stuff once.
I build mostly cabinets and furniture and have had my Harbor Freight saw for about 12 years now, it still cuts and works the same as it did when brand new. if you've ever seen a good quality sleigh bed, you will see that the sleigh shaped posts are made of thick lumber, on my beds they are made of 2-1/2" thick sugar or big leaf maple or walnut...... not exactly thin or soft lumber. as I've previously said,..... the key to keeping a band saw running right is in the knowledge of bandsaws in the operator.
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Sometimes the "key " to keeping anything going is starting out with a tool that is up to the task at hand.
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If you go to the Jet web site that saw you are looking at is for wood only and is way more saw than you will ever use. Save some money and get a very good saw at Grizzly Tools. They have many models for a GOOD price. I have an older 16" - 1 hp model that is a work-horse and does anything I ask of it. Bought it used for $200 fifteen years ago - no regrets! It does not have roller bearing guides it tracks & cuts just fine no issues. I started with my dad's 10" Atlas/Craftsman bandsaw in the 60's then went through two 14" Harbor Freight saws now I have this Grizzly and LOVE it. The blade you use is VERY IMPORTANT as to how the saw performs. A 14" saw with a 3/4 HP motor is a great combination for the average builder it will do all you ask of it with the right blade. Don't get sucked in buying all the "bells & whistles". Good luck :) NOTE: I got a Harbor Freight vertical/horizontal metal cutting band saw that I use for metal and it does OK - not the best but OK with a quality Bi-Metal blade. The blades Harbor Freight sells are garbage and will not cut metal (maybe aluminum foil).
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the harbor freight 14 in saw has the same frame as the delta, Rockwell, Powermatic, jet, shop fox, and any other 14 inch saw of the same cast C-frame design sold today. the foundries that make them sell them to anyone who produces a 14 inch saw and uses the same frame design. it has been this way about 1970 . have a look at the frames,....you will see all the bungs and flat spots in the castings for all the other manufacturers to put their preferred brand specific parts on. to be honest, from brand to brand, these 14 inch c-framed saws are all pretty much identical. it's just too expensive to differentiate designs and still compete against the other brands for the same few hundred bucks. it comes down to whether you like green, grey, white, orange, or gold paint and how much you want to pay for the color of paint you like.
if you are breaking guide brackets, you don't have the saw set up right or you are taking the edge off your blade by setting the guides too deep into the blade and then horsing a piece of stock into a dull blade with the set taken out because the teeth are dulled on the outside of the blade. this will make the blade not want to track around a curve, because the set is what gives the cut the clearance needed to cut around a curve, or you are using too wide a band for the radii you want to cut around and binding the blade which puts undue stress on the guide brackets. if you are wearing out bottom bearings, you have the blade tension set way too high, or the drive belt tension set way too high. the HF saw is perfectly capable of handling any job any that the other so-called "better brands" can handle. I have had one far too long to be convinced otherwise. it all boils down to what you know about setting up a band saw to do the job you want it to do and how tolerant you are to dull blades.
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If you go to the Jet web site that saw you are looking at is for wood only and is way more saw than you will ever use. Save some money and get a very good saw at Grizzly Tools. They have many models for a GOOD price. I have an older 16" - 1 hp model that is a work-horse and does anything I ask of it. Bought it used for $200 fifteen years ago - no regrets! It does not have roller bearing guides it tracks & cuts just fine no issues. I started with my dad's 10" Atlas/Craftsman bandsaw in the 60's then went through two 14" Harbor Freight saws now I have this Grizzly and LOVE it. The blade you use is VERY IMPORTANT as to how the saw performs. A 14" saw with a 3/4 HP motor is a great combination for the average builder it will do all you ask of it with the right blade. Don't get sucked in buying all the "bells & whistles". Good luck :) NOTE: I got a Harbor Freight vertical/horizontal metal cutting band saw that I use for metal and it does OK - not the best but OK with a quality Bi-Metal blade. The blades Harbor Freight sells are garbage and will not cut metal (maybe aluminum foil).
i'll agree,....you can't pay 10 bucks for a bandsaw blade an expect it to be a good blade.
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I think Bill has gotten what he needed to know, along with some he didn't. so I am locking this thread.
Tim C.