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General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Stophel on April 23, 2009, 03:34:58 AM

Title: Just completed lock
Post by: Stophel on April 23, 2009, 03:34:58 AM
Here's a lock I just completed that is going on a Lehigh rifle I'm working on.

(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv326%2FFatdutchman%2FFlintlocks%2Flock1jpg.jpg&hash=2598952cb971d8e48d6946e06a0a1c9e6a06db2c)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv326%2FFatdutchman%2FFlintlocks%2Flock2jpg.jpg&hash=bb6095488c1f5d908646f26b1e97d4f36142ca5f)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv326%2FFatdutchman%2FFlintlocks%2Flock3jpg.jpg&hash=ded03b9f16de131be46514181b56c08b8617a798)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv326%2FFatdutchman%2FFlintlocks%2Flock4jpg.jpg&hash=1f5477a842a90758d44acfb19287eb3f1d6153a7)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv326%2FFatdutchman%2FFlintlocks%2Flock5jpg.jpg&hash=f6269f6d3474862ccea6b323636bb006f92f37d0)

Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on April 23, 2009, 04:06:48 AM
You've done a nice job finishing that lock up Chris.  I don't as yet own one of those, but I can see now that one is in my future.  Was the lock a kit, or did you just reharden and temper the frizzen just because.
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Longarm on April 23, 2009, 05:01:56 AM
Very nice job, that frizzen color looks perfect to me.
    Larry
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Madcaster on April 23, 2009, 06:21:01 AM
 Great workmanship!
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: t.caster on April 23, 2009, 05:18:54 PM
Was it a Siler kit or....looks like a Deluxe Siler?

Are you really finished with it? Inside of the plate looks mighty rough! I'd spend more time polishing the inside than the outside. Mechanical functionality trumps good looks every time! ;D
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: t.caster on April 23, 2009, 06:02:38 PM
Stophel, I apologize if that sounded critical! It was meant more in the spirit of mentoring and teaching. I know....who am I to teach you? My Master would have told me "you're not done yet", and leave me to figure out why not. I try to be a little more helpful with the apprentices than he was.
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: rich pierce on April 23, 2009, 06:13:01 PM
I think the RE Davis Jack Haugh lock is the basis for your re-work.  Nicely done.  Excellent re-shaping of the cock and tail of the lock, plus the top jaw screw looks great.   Nice job on the pan bridle too.

(I edited this post once I figured out which lock you started with).
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Mike Brooks on April 23, 2009, 06:15:24 PM
Looks like a re-worked Davis lock to me.  Nicely done.  Excellent re-shaping of the cock and tail of the lock, plus the top jaw screw looks great.  Did you add the pan bridle too?  If the lock I'm thinking of is the basis, then you did and did a fine job of it.
That would be my guess as well.
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Stophel on April 23, 2009, 08:59:43 PM
While I do need to do final filing on the bolster to fit to the barrel, the rest of the inside of the plate is fine.  Absolute flatness or smoothness is not required.  The only places that have to be smooth is where moving parts touch. If moving parts don't touch, filing it any smoother is pointless.  It's already considerably nicer than the average late 18th century German import lock!

The lock started out as.....a Siler kit.  I think the WORST thing I could possibly do is send out a gun with a lock that is easily recognizeable as a standard factory lock.  Especially a Siler.  I can spot a Siler a mile away. :-[

The plate was reshaped some, and the tail refiled.  The cock is one of the "blank" cocks from Track of the Wolf (which I use often).  The immediately-recognizeable Siler pan was reshaped to something more attractive.  The tail of the frizzen was forged around to curl it up and it was reshaped and refiled.  The double-screw solid bridle was made by me.  Sawn out of 3/8" mild steel.  The spring was an old one I found in my parts box that I had put on something in the past (don't remember what), that was filed thinner to help clear the barrel (It's a skinny 1" barrel, so I need all the help I can get).  Yeah, I can notch the barrel, but I'd prefer to not do that if I don't have to...mostly I just don't like the wood breaking through.
I leaned the frizzen back a bit to make a smoother strike of the flint.

Lockplate is case hardened (though I only really worried about hardening the area around the tumbler hole).  The bridle is case hardened.  The frizzen is case hardened and tempered down.  Those pretty colors will be gone soon.  Tumbler and bridle are oil hardened normally and tempered.

That's not a real pretty frizzen spring, but I had it, so I used it.  It works well.  I think it's off a Davis something or other.  Something I had in my parts box.
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Dphariss on April 23, 2009, 09:27:33 PM
Nicely done.

Dan
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Benedict on April 23, 2009, 09:32:03 PM
I was really taken by the top jaw screw.  Is that one you made or did it come with the "blank"cock?

Good job!

Bruce
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Z. Buck on April 23, 2009, 10:27:14 PM
very nice, i too liked the top jaw screw, looks great all around, thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: t.caster on April 23, 2009, 10:47:45 PM
The lock started out as.....a Siler kit.  I think the WORST thing I could possibly do is send out a gun with a lock that is easily recognizeable as a standard factory lock.  Especially a Siler.  I can spot a Siler a mile away. :-[

eH YEP...seen it right off!
I spotted the different cockscrew and bridle...homemade I figured! And something diff. about the frizzen besides the color. Reshaping plate is something I always try to do too, depending on the original. The original Bucks Co. rifle rendition I am working on now has a lock that is a dead ringer for a Siler, so only a little change to the plate slope above the bridle & sear spring.

Nice work on all the other modifications!
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Stophel on April 23, 2009, 11:21:05 PM
The Siler plate shape ain't bad.  SOOO many old locks have virtually identical plate shapes, but the Siler cock and pan are like flashing neon signs screaming "Look at me, I'm a Siler lock!".

The top jaw screw I think is going to be one of my new "trademarks".  I've done a couple this way now and like the shape.  I "turned" it out (in a drill press with a file) of some ugly screw with a huge round head.  I don't know what it came from.

Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on April 24, 2009, 05:31:46 AM
Chris I love ya and you can call me a prick.  I like the lock - hate the jaw screw.  It just doesn't look 'old American.'  Look like something that ought to be on a German rifle in the Met.  I'm sorry I'm sorry!  Just being cranky.
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Brian Jordan on April 24, 2009, 01:46:20 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Stophel on April 24, 2009, 07:43:22 PM
I believe I copied that screw off a German rifle I have in a book somewhere...
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Acer Saccharum on April 25, 2009, 05:38:06 AM
I copied that screw off

Are you talking about me? Can we talk about this over a Yeungling in July?
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: tg on April 27, 2009, 01:34:00 AM
That looks good Chris, if more builders could do work like that there could be a lot more "correct" locks on many of todays guns, I assume the step is to make up an ample supply of lead flintholders of various thickness ;)
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: msblacksmith on May 08, 2009, 06:27:25 AM
looks good. :)
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: T*O*F on May 08, 2009, 07:15:42 AM
Quote
looks good. 


msblacksmith,
It is proper etiquette to introduce yourself before you start posting.  In fact, your introduction should be your first post.  Instead, you have worked your way back thru old postings which have already run their course and responded with "me too" and one-liner postings that add no value to the topic being discussed.

It's rapidly becoming irritating and you will find that many will not share their advice with a stranger.  Instead of hiding behind an anonymous handle, tell us who you are, where you are, and your interests and level of expertise.  You will then be welcomed and you can start participating by adding meaningful content to current threads, instead of wasting our reading time on your minimal exclamatory responses.
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Stophel on May 08, 2009, 08:03:53 PM
I, on the other hand, don't really mind much at all.   ;D

Welcome, msblacksmith!

 ;)
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: jerrywh on May 08, 2009, 08:29:26 PM
Nice job on the frizzen tempering. I think it should have been polished also.  You did a good job on the lock . I agree with Eric on the screw.   Friendly honest opinion.
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: fullcircle on May 08, 2009, 09:26:13 PM
god forbid any of us Noobies should try to tread on your hallowed ground here.Right TOF?  Let alone compliment someone. Where is the introduction forum?
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: jerrywh on May 08, 2009, 11:00:10 PM
I agree in theory with TOF. I think it is onlt good manners to introduce your self. A lot of u sdon't like to give advise to strangers. I would have suggested it in a kinder fashon.
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Stophel on May 08, 2009, 11:39:21 PM
Nice job on the frizzen tempering. I think it should have been polished also.  You did a good job on the lock . I agree with Eric on the screw.   Friendly honest opinion.

The colors will be buffed off.   ;)

And hey, go look at the jaw screw on the Jacob Georg gun on the antique board!!!   ;D   :D  ;D
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: jerrywh on May 09, 2009, 03:13:28 AM
Jacob Georg's is ugly also.  In my opinion, this is what is wrong with copying original stuff sometimes.
  Those guys made all the same mistakes we do. Besides---- That could be a replacement screw.
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Ky-Flinter on May 09, 2009, 04:50:31 AM
Good grief!  Not all of us are old and crotchety....  some of us are just old and some just crotchety. 

I'm glad I didn't let you guys run me off when I was a newby.  Maybe we do need an Intro forum.  Moderators?

Welcome, msblacksmith!

And Welcome, fullcircle!


Oh, yeah.....  Nice looking lock Stophel, but I'm with Eric on the topjaw screw.

-Ron
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: fullcircle on May 09, 2009, 05:37:44 AM
thanks for the welcome.Most forums have an intro thread/forum.
 I wouldn't be browsing around here and complimenting if I didn't have a strong interest and like for this stuff.I'm not nearly accomplished enough to give advice or post a tutorial. I'll try not to step on any old/crotchety toes.
   By the way ,that's a great looking lock .Nice work.If I may say so myself.
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Don Getz on May 09, 2009, 03:16:07 PM
Ron..when you talk about old and crotchetcy, now you're getting personal. ha.     When I first looked at this lock the first
thing that jumped out at me was the top jaw screw, personally, I don't care for it, but, that's me.  You also stated that
the frizzen was case hardened....why would you do that?  Why not heat treat it properly?  That is one of the problems
with a TC lock....the frizzen wears out after they have worn that hard shell away.  I realize that it's probably fun Stophel
to build your own lock, but, at my age I can live quite well with a siler, make a few modifications, and I can get on with
gun building.  The locals that I am building these barn guns for wouldn't know if I modified a siler or not, as long as it works well, why bother.  The one thing that really jumps out at me on a siler, and makes it easily recognizeable, is the
frizzen.   I wish someone would make a replacement that did not have that big radius cut in the corner.  Nuff said, I do
admire your ability to make something up from a variety of parts, not sure if it worth the time to do it just for change sake..........Don
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Leprechaun on May 09, 2009, 03:53:49 PM
  I realize that it's probably fun Stophel
to build your own lock, but, at my age I can live quite well with a siler, make a few modifications, and I can get on with
gun building.  The locals that I am building these barn guns for wouldn't know if I modified a siler or not, as long as it works well, why bother. .............I do
admire your ability to make something up from a variety of parts, not sure if it worth the time to do it just for change sake..........Don

Don, I'm not speaking for Chris as he's a big boy and can speak for himself but re-read the quote above then consider this statement and I think the point of building ones own lock becomes clear.

I realize that it's probably fun Don, to build your own gun, but, at my age I can live quite well with a Pedersoli, make a few modifications and get on with shooting. The locals that i shoot with wouldn't know if I modified a pedersoli or not, as long as it works well, why bother. I do admire your ability to make something up from a variety of parts, not sure if it's worth the time to do it for change sake.  ;)
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: Stophel on May 10, 2009, 06:40:25 PM
Is it "worth it", monetarily?  NO.  Not by a long shot.  I could never charge anywhere near what really goes into building a lock.  It's done for my own satisfaction.   ;)
Title: Re: Just completed lock
Post by: jerrywh on May 10, 2009, 08:00:09 PM
It's worth it for what you learn.