AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Marcruger on May 12, 2018, 08:36:06 PM
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Here is one for the experts. A fellow down in Conway, SC has this old gun. Heavily worn and modified. Does anyone know anything more about it and its origins? My apologies for the poor photos. Bob Hill graciously arranged for me to be able to take photographs. It appears to have a castle shaped stamp on the trigger guard, and a broad arrow on the barrel (but nowhere else). Perhaps built from old English parts, or at one time was associated with the English military? Have at it folks! God Bless, Marc
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More images.....
(https://preview.ibb.co/cLciiy/Rifle_Hill_9280.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kvrXbJ)
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About all I can say is I see a lot of Spanish influences in your long gun. Wonder if it has some Florida background. The percussion conversion is interesting and quite unique in itself.
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That mark on the TG looks an awful lot lIke a Spanish maker's mark seen on barrels.
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Note that the comb edge of the butt is thinner than the toe. That buttplate only goes down 1/2 the length of the butt, and is inlet that way. Presumably it is original. Bob notes the gun was found in the Charleston area.
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Hi,
It is probably Spanish from the late 18th or early 19th century. The lock clearly had a frizzen and was converted to percussion. The barrel tang and the tang screw entering from the bottom was common in guns made in the Ripoll region of Spain but the stock is very much Madrid in style. I am surprised there are no makers marks on the barrel. Perhaps corrosion from the percussion conversion has obscured them.
dave
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Did you happen to get pictures of the forestock? There was a fellow looking for pictures of Spanish forends a some months ago, and there wasn't much available.
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The foreshock was missing just above where the entry pipe should have been. Couldn’t see signs of other pipes or barrel lugs. Where the entry pipe should have been , there was a piece of brass bent around the stock. I don’t know if this was originally part of a set of bands taking the place of barrel lugs or not. I am not at all familiar with this type of gun. I knew someone on here would know something about it.
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Hi,
Brass barrel bands are likely if it is a Spanish gun.
dave
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Stock Spanish, trigger guard makers mark , lock Baltic miquelet .
Feltwad
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Hi,
Feltwad, I disagree. That is no Baltic lock. The shape and construction are Spanish but the main spring was replaced. You can see the slot in front of the spring where the original was longer and shaped differently to also provide spring tension for the frizzen.
dave
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I believe you are right Dave, all Spanish.
The punzon may clean up a bit and still be readable.
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Hi,
Feltwad, I disagree. That is no Baltic lock. The shape and construction are Spanish but the main spring was replaced. You can see the slot in front of the spring where the original was longer and shaped differently to also provide spring tension for the frizzen.
dave
Dave you are correct it is more Spanish my mistake will go through my references of miquelet locks
Feltwad
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It's been rode mighty hard.....and put up wet!! :o :-\
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This looks like a classic spanish musket with miquelet lock. It has been converted to percussion which a lot of them have been. That style of musket was used for a loooong time but I would guess late 18th century. If your friend has any interest in selling it please contact me as it is right up my ally. I dont mind dancing with the ugly girls ;)
Z
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Z, I will pm you the owner’s email address. The gun is not mine. It was loaned to me to study. I have returned it to him.
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It looks Europein.
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Can't see the lock picture clearly but almost looks like a converted dog lock.
Mark
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Hi Mark,
The lock is Mediterranean, probably Spanish. It was never a doglock. The main spring was replaced and either the original spring extended forward more to cover the slot you see in front of it or there was a separate frizzen spring. Some Spanish locks had 2 springs others used the mainspring to power the lock and activate the frizzen. The stock is the Madrid style but that does not prove it was made in Madrid.
dave
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It's been rode mighty hard.....and put up wet!! :o :-\
I hope I look that good when I'm that old!
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I have been browsing on this forum, and am delighted to see the wealth of talent and knowledge that you all have. To be able to look at a photo, and know all that you do is amazing.
Glad I am associating with all of you!
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100% Spanish, from the area around Castille based on the stock shape. Miquelets of Catalan origin have different stock shapes, with a skinny buttstock that has sort of an extended toe. Just google "miguelet musket pictures" or similar and you will see all the interesting variants of these types of guns. This was the preferred lock by the Spanish, especially in colonial areas as they are easier to maintain and have fewer parts than a standard box lock. Washington was supplied with thousands of these by the Spanish during the Revolution, and these were likely the type of guns carried by many of George Rogers Clark's men when he took Vincennes as he had been resupplied by the Spanish in St. Louis. They made these locks for their military pistols up until the advent of repeaters as percussions. Many of these pistols were brought to the states during our Civil War as European countries emptied out their armories of obsolete guns to less than knowledgeable arms buyers. Not impossible this gun came here that way, especially if it has Charleston provenance. As several have pointed out, it is obviously a percussion from flint conversion. Sadly, originals unless they are high end collectables, are in demand by "Pirate" reenactors (read drunken street partyers) because they tend to be cheap, most gun shops don't seem interested, they are not rare in Florida in pawn shops.