AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Skychief on June 24, 2018, 05:59:38 AM
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Can any of you, which shoot one of Jim's 40 calibers with the Rice barrel, tell me what kind of accuracy they are capable of with squirrel-friendly loads of 15-25 grains?
Thanks for any insight you can provide.
Best regards, Skychief
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I have not built/shot a 40 but my Kibler 36, 25 grains 3 F, would shoot 1 jagged hole at 30 yards from a rest. I had a (not a Kibler) 32 with 25 grains of 3F, that would do the same thing and both of these were Rice barrels.
Dennis
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Others may have some experience with that light of a load in a .40 . I have always shot at least 40 grains 3f in .40s. Most of the 40s that I have had shot best with 45 to 60 gr. Recoil is still pretty much non existent . If I was going to hunt squirrel or anything else , for that matter , I would work the rifle up as accurate of a load as possible , whatever it turned out to be , I would get it shooting touching holes at 25 yds. before attempting to shoot squirrels , as I want to make head shots. JMHO Nate
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Most rifles will, at 25 yards, put 5 shots into a ragged hole at 25 yards, with almost any reasonable load.
By reasonable, I am talking 20gr. is a .32, 25gr. in a .36, 30gr. in a .40, that sort of thing.
It's when you get out to 50yards, that actual load development must happen to get tight groups with multiple shots.
If all your shooting is up into tree tops or inside 30yards - you should find good accuracy with light loads, that is, assuming
you are capable of shooting very tiny groups. Your groups size will grow exponentially when shooting from field positions,
thus it is best to 'take a rest' whenever possible. Now, that might mean different things to different folks. ;D
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Whew that post plum tuckered me out Daryl, I'm gonna take my nap now lol
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I've found that 40 grains of 3F is so accurate and develops around 1700 fps that I load that as my "all around" load. But for a truly mild and accurate load, I haven't found anything so far that beats 30 grains of 3F. 30 grains also gives mild speeds.
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Thanks for all the replies. Still would like to hear from anyone shooting a Rice barrelled Kibler.
Thanks, Skychief
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Seems to me, we got tiny hole-groups when we shot Taylor's Kibler .40. Pretty sure it has a Rice bl. I expect we were shooting 40 to 50gr. 3F and a .395" ball with .022"
denim patching - ya know - normal go-to recipe stuff with WWWF+oil for lube.
(https://image.ibb.co/bFsfkT/100_7478.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bzRjC8)
(https://image.ibb.co/ejswQT/100_7477.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iEweeo)
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Any more pictures like that Daryl, and I may take you as an enabler! Nice rifle.
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I don't have a Kibler with a Rice barrel but I do have one of my builds with a Rice .40 caliber barrel. I don't think the wood it's sitting in matters a whole lot.
(https://preview.ibb.co/f1DyN8/10_shot_target_40_caliber.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jthsh8)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ctPSFT/Turkey_head.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nR7Q28)
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Those shots will put meat on the table for sure.
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Thank you Darkhorse.
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However, 60gr. is an accuracy and/or hunting charge in a .40. 60gr.3F is not what this thread was about, but does show what is 'generally'
needed to produce excellent accuracy.
My Goodoien 48" twist .40 barrel preferred 65gr. 3F and 75gr. 2F (both with slippery lubes) gave the same 2,240 to 2,260fps, same accuracy
and same poi - along with the same clean shooting, not needing wiping for a day's shooting.
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Daryl, your right of course. I included the 50 yard turkey target because Skychief is a Turkey hunter and thought he might relate it to a Rice barrel's accuracy. In keeping with the question of the OP I've added another target shot with 30 grains.
To really test the accuracy of a barrel one would need to mount a scope and have mastered the art of benchrest shooting. But here we are using open sights and with open sights the shooters vision must be contended with. Poor vision or technique can make a good barrel shoot poor groups.
(https://image.ibb.co/jYoi9o/CCI03062017_0001_514x800.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f3j1vT)
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You are right Darkhorse. That's the kind of information I'm looking for. Looks like the .40 will shoot minute of squirrel to 25 yards and more with a lightish load of 30 grains.
I've killed enough squirrel with a .45 to know unless head shot, makes a mess real quick. Thinking of a 40 caliber squirrel rig, I made the request for light load accuracy.
I've had 36, and still have 32 caliber rifles but prefer working with a .40. I have an old Royland Southgate 40 caliber. It's a caplock. Wanting a flinter in that caliber. Looking hard at Mr. Kibler's kit guns. It'll take some saving up, but right now, that's the direction I'm looking to go.
I appreciate your time and effort to post these pictures. Thanks.
Best regards, Skychief.
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Indeed it will, to at least 50 yards from my testing. Here's one from 30 yards, not as tight as I'd hoped for at this distance and beyond but finding the correct aiming point on follow up shots begins to be a problem. All 5 shots were covered by a quarter. I've found that after a couple of shots your aiming point is gone and your just doing the best you can, which tends to open up the groups and cause a flyer or 2. But I expect things like that to affect my shooting now, I'm past 65 and don't use glasses when I shoot, the eyes aren't what they used to be.
I like the .40 caliber and what really decided the issue was the presence of so many wild hogs in my area. It does practically no damage to a wild turkey as the balls seem hardly to expand but it still puts them down quick.
I use 2 different patch thicknesses, .018 Pillow Ticking for heavier loads and when hunting Turkeys, and a .015 Cotton material for easier loading. I've worked up loads for both that shoot tight groups.
(https://preview.ibb.co/iPKU0T/Squirrel_New.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d8y078)
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Much obliged Darkhorse. You're quite the enabler! :)
All the best, Skychief.
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Darkhorse, I am curious as to what lube #1 is?
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There is honest controversy over what distance rifles should be sighted in. But when it comes to calibers for squirrel hunting, I normally settle for 25 to 30 yards. Small critters are difficult, at least for me, to see well much beyond that in the woods. As long as my .32 & .36 work at that distance I'm satisfied. But my plinking experience shows me my load is accurate up to 80 yards.
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Darkhorse, I am curious as to what lube #1 is?
I was/am testing different lubes and blends. My favorite plinking and shooting lube is LeHigh Valley, however it's not a hunting lube as it dries out and will cause a rust ring. But for heavy fouling in a smallbore and cleaning it has no peer as far as I'm concerned. So I wanted a lube that would not dry out yet still retained the cleaning properties and easy loading I wanted for squirrel and turkey hunting. Lube #1 is simply LeHigh Valley and Canola oil mixed 60% Canola oil and 40% Lehigh valley. It worked well enough but I keep tweaking stuff.
When I shot the turkey last spring my lube was 100% Canola oil. I need to do a lot more testing of this lube but I knew it wouldn't dry out or rust the barrel. So shot a few to determine where it hit at POI, it hit center of my previous groups so it was good to go in that respect. And over a few days I determined a cold clean barrel shot the first shot to the center of my test group. So I decided to hunt with it. Will I use it for deer hunting? That depends on the results of further testing in my .54.
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Thanks for the reply. I was stumped because I saw most of your targets list LVL as the lube. I also think that it is an exceptional lube for the range but use MCM Minie lube for hunting with a small ball of tow under the patched ball so the lube does not touch the powder.
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It's a FORTY!...40 to 50 grns. of 3F Goex, 50 to sixty grns. of 2F Goex. My "light" loads clock over 1700 fps. Does the ball clear the said barrel with 15 grains? Sorry, I don't get why anyone would shoot a "squib" load....maybe for cleaning? ps What Nate said.
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It's a FORTY!...40 to 50 grns. of 3F Goex, 50 to sixty grns. of 2F Goex. My "light" loads clock over 1700 fps. Does the ball clear the said barrel with 15 grains? Sorry, I don't get why anyone would shoot a "squib" load....maybe for cleaning? ps What Nate said.
Yes Leatherbelly, for cleaning. Not the rifle, but, the squirrel killed with a shot that doesn't strike the head. Been there and done that more than I care to remember, but, will own up to it though.
And yes, 15 grains will cause a ball to clear a barrel and then some.
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It doesn't have to be a .40 non-headshot to make a mess. A .32 pushed along with 30 or so grains of FFFG will make a sufficient mess if it lands some place other than the head. At 15 grains, not so much a problem, but still not the most desirable outcome. Been there --
J.B.
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FWIW I have tried those squib loads in my .40 and they didn't work out so well. In my case I got inconsistent ignition due to the patch itself partially blocking the touch hole. Add some fouling from a few shots and the TH was completely blocked. I didn't put a lot of effort into working things out, just moved on to a heavier charge to get the patch and ball farther up the barrel.
I find the 30 grain 3fg load about ideal for shooting headshots on our little gray squirrels and for punching paper. In a pinch I've shot a couple just behind the ribcage broadside. This leaves the front shoulders, back and rear quarters intact for cooking.
My rifle is sighted dead on at 25 yards with 30 grains 3f, this makes those head shots easier. I load 60 grains 3f for turkeys and this hits 2" high at 50 yards and delivers killing hits about as far as I can see in my environment and terrain.
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Daryl finally ventured the closest to any kind of answer to this question, when he mentioned the twist rate. If it’s 1in 48” or faster, it should shoot light loads well. But I got a barrel off of this site that is .40 cal. With a slower twist. If you have one of these, the likelihood of it shoot light squirrel loads accurately are not as good.
Hungry Horse
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True indeed. A faster twist would benefit a slower ball.
Anyone know the twist rate for the forty caliber barrel in Kibler's kit rifle by chance?
Best regards, Skychief
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I'm pretty sure the twist rate of the .40 cal Kilbler rifle is 1:48". Mine likes 65 gr. FFFg GOEX, .395" pure lead ball and .020" denim patch. I have a friend who shots a Getz barrelled .40 of 1:48" twist with 40 gr. FFg GOEX and does very well out to 100 yards. My .40's don't like that load.
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My .40 doesn't like 40 grains either. This barrel has always been very picky about what it likes to shoot well. After a few thousand rounds I've got it nailed down pretty well. It likes 30 grains Goex 3fg, lube and patch doesn't seem to make much difference. 40 and 50 grains the groups open up. At 60 grains it shoots real good at 50 yards, but here it requires at least a .018 dense weave patch or the patch disentegrates.
Its' been awhile since I shot 25 grains 3f but if memory serves it shot about like the 30 grain load. Both the 30 and 60 grain loads do exactly what I require from the .40 so I'm satisfied.
All the standard Rice .40 caliber barrels are 1/48, but other twist rates are available at extra cost.
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Use what YOUR rifles tells YOU to use. You are hunting so using some sort of oil or grease.
I have found oils and greases usually require MORE powder than will shoot well with a water
based lube - virtually every time, the only exception being my .69. That rifle has a bit of a large
bore for such small game, however it does shoot 30gr. 2F well enough for breaking bunny heads with those
492gr. balls to about 30yards. So - if 20gr. 3F or 2f shoots well for you - Eureka!!!!!!!!!! If not, use more until
you get the accuracy you need. There is no short cut and you need the experience with that rifle anyway.