AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: MGillman on June 26, 2018, 02:49:09 AM
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I received the following information from Mr. Wallace Gusler, himself, asking me to post it for him. I developed it in my home shop in the 1950s. The finish is made from raw linseed oil and tar (asphaltum). I mix the two together and warm slightly in a tin vessel. I rub it into the stock as a stain and finish. I coat the stock from muzzle to butt plate by rubbing in with a cloth swab. Once it is completed to the butt plate, I use cotton cloths to wipe off the excess, starting at the muzzle cap and working back to the butt piece. This usually takes three to four passes of wiping. It is very important to wipe off all excess that has not soaked into the stock. It takes 6 to 10 coats over a period of 3 to 4 weeks. After a good depth and darkness of color are achieved, I use 3 to 5 coats of boiled linseed oil, following the same procedure, to seal the wood.
This finish is not very satisfactory for straight grain maple. It works best with the highly curled maple. Over time the stock continues to get more definition and depth. I’ve see pieces I did 50 years ago which look fantastic. This rifle in the pictures was finished last August, and seems to have improved month after month.
(https://preview.ibb.co/kP3Ch8/IMG_3953.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nxek28)
(https://preview.ibb.co/b4ipUo/IMG_3954.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m5Zw9o)
(https://preview.ibb.co/icTpUo/IMG_3955.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c6fQ28)
(https://preview.ibb.co/n5HG9o/IMG_3956_1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hgDpUo)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dJNzUo/IMG_3957.jpg) (https://ibb.co/frxYpo)
(https://preview.ibb.co/iQXYpo/IMG_3958.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e3CoN8)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ic58N8/IMG_3959.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nbHzUo)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jk4raT/IMG_3960.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eVR4vT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/d3KDpo/IMG_3961.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n3ScFT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kNaWaT/IMG_3963.jpg) (https://ibb.co/du4eUo)
(https://preview.ibb.co/k2mhh8/IMG_3966.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gn8v28)
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There is no reason that I can see to use raw linseed oil on any wood product, unless you are actively looking for a sticky surface to attract dirt. I grant you that this dirt attraction will highlight curl in maple over extended time, however I sincerely doubt *raw* linseed oil was used on any gunstock save perhaps those built in extreme backcountry areas. And frankly, even harder oil finishes will permit dirt infiltration, so raw oil has no benefit that I can see even in that respect.
Ditto for "tar." There were a huge variety of much harder and more refined resins available in pretty much any eastern area. Particularly various generic colophony resins which would have been even cheaper than tar, asphalt or Gilsonite based materials. All one has to do is go through store advertisements or inventories for Philly, Lancaster, Charlestown etc. Fully completed high quality vanishes were even available, let alone the very affordable primary components to make such varnishes or hard oil finishes. These were certainly not gunstock-only type materials so when you consider the large variety of woodworking and carpentry based trades using such materials, I personally find it a bit backward to consider the use of such primitive and unsuitable materials.
If one has access to "boiled" i.e. catalysed oil, why use a raw oil which is loaded with mucilage and other garbage that absolutely will not ever fully dry?
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Eric,
I'd have to leave the debate of the merits of this finish versus other finishes up to you and Mr. Gusler. To a lay person like myself, it looks pretty good. Your points are also well made and would prevent someone like me from possibly going out and buying raw linseed oil and tar and likely messing up my first finish job on a rifle. I think I'll stick with my plan of using Jim Kibler's approach of a tannic acid wash followed by his iron nitrate on my Kibler Colonial kit followed by either Permalyn sealer or Jim Chamber's traditional oil stock finish. I'll probably have plenty of opportunity to screw that up without resorting to a master's home brew finish.
Final finish not withstanding, I really appreciate MGillman posting these pictures. The carving and the engraving are beautiful on this rifle. Not overdone and obviously artfully executed, but there is an awful lot of detail to study when you zoom in. It looks like an outstanding rifle.
K.C.
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OK, dumb question. When Wallace Gusler builds a rifle like this, does he generally hand make every screw? I was zooming in on the pictures and it looks like every patch box screw, lock bolt, the tang bolt, etc. were hand made. Has anyone here ever gone to the trouble to take purchased screws and do file work on the heads to make them look hand made or is that just cheating? I also like the fire blued finish on the screws and the rear sight. Nice touch.
K.C.
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For sure, I don't mean in any way to denigrate the rifle! What a beautiful piece and certainly magnificent workmanship. I simply want to point out that in my own research into the subject as well as fairly ample experimentation, I can't see any reason on earth why someone would choose to use "raw" or non-catalyzed (with some form of drying agent or process) linseed oil for anything.
The final appearance illustrated here could have been just as easily obtained using some form of boiled or catalyzed oil as a finish base. Meanwhile the term "asphaltum" could mean many things and depending upon the exact composition of what is being used, it may mean (in the more modern interpretation) some form of coal tar which is pretty unsuitable to my mind for use upon wood products. It will take years and years to off gas enough volatile compounds to stabilize; it usually just remains sticky. It could also mean a naturally mined bituminous product (like Gilsonite from the American West, which Bill Knight introduced me to years ago) which would be more suitable as these are essentially fossilized products, however the availability of such products was vastly superseded (historically) by a huge catalog of tree resins which are much more suitable for use in the creation of a wood finish. Here again, there are dark-colored tree resins which would yield the same result without the negative side-effects **if** the "tar" being used is actually coal tar.
Anyway I want to reiterate how great the gun looks. :D I'm just being nitpicky which I usually do about pretty much everything, especially wood finishes within a historical context!
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Have no idea what Wallace does but as far as modifying modern commercial screws, if you want a believable look you can't simply go at the machined slot with a knife file and expect it to look appropriate. What you can do with a modern screw is to beat the head down into a swage block (basically a piece of hardened steel with different sized holes/countersinks) until you close up the modern slot, then reshape the head and file a new slot with an appropriate slot file or knife file depending upon how wide you want the slot.
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I believe these 3 videos will explain the "Linseed oil" finish better than I could ever try toto. As to the "tar", that was just added as a dye pigment, without a lot of time experimenting, with the mixes, but I will guess that it takes very little of the "tar" to blacken the mix.
https://youtu.be/MaHHGnvKXn0
https://youtu.be/VtETzSg4LcE
https://youtu.be/KvSvmOwmNV8
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Eric, I certainly didn't take your post as denigrating the rifle. I took it as a valid take on pros and cons of alternate finishes. Good info to have. Anyway, regarding the screws, you make sense once again. By the time you beat the screw heads down to close the slots and start filing, it might be just as smart to learn to make your own screws. I still might try it on a couple screws just to see what happens.
K.C.
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Absolutely beautiful rifle. As to finishes, I used raw linseed oil as a finish some 25+ years ago based on what I was told or read about at that time. One week of moose hunting [ cold, wet , canoeing and tenting ] and there wasn't much finish left on the gun. A while later I read an article by Mr Kettenburg published in Muzzleblasts mag. concerning oil varnishes of the period. I refinished that gun with an oil varnish and it is still good to this day.
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I'm 99% sure this is the rifle that Wallace had with him in class this year at WKU.
I had the opportunity to look at it, pretty much every day, and can say that the finish was certainly cured and not sticky.
I don't intend to comment on the use of this or that technique or product, just simply saying that however Wallace did it, it had a lovely finish which withstood inspection by several students all week long.
That's all, nothing more!
Norm
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I have no desire to engage in a debate regarding how period correct a stock finish containing asphalt is. However, over the last 30 years, I have at times used a similar formula when I want to achieve a dark finish similar to that shown. I do not use raw linseed oil. I dissolve the asphalt in pure turpentine and apply it pretty much as described. One application will do it and it doesn't take a long time to dry. I follow with several thin coats of boiled linseed oil rubbed in well. The finish lends a translucence to the wood I have not obtained with other finishes and I find it to be very durable.
Mix some up, try it on a piece of scrap and see if you like it.
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(https://image.ibb.co/i8EXh8/88.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://image.ibb.co/ggwZvT/89.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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from Emigs blog on screw making
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Another fine firearm made by Gusler. At the Kentucky/Tennessee show he had another Lancaster style he had recently finished for a client. The finish was asphaltum (he loves the stuff) mixed into some sort of oil and it was beautiful, and not at all sticky. The finish was rather blond looking and the figured maple quite distinct.
Eric; I totally agree about raw oils and finishing - I have gone that route on a well known US government produced firearm stock and ended up with one heck of a mess. Lesson learned.
dave
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Elk Killer, thanks for the post. I've seen the Cabin Creek website but never saw the blog. They almost make screw making look easy.
K.C.
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The finish looks very monochromatic which I don't like. I prefer something more complex. Raw linseed oil should be washed to remove water soluble dross.
I hesitate to post this but here is some good info on processing linseed oil
https://www.tadspurgeon.com/content.php?page=just+oil
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When Mr. Gusler had the Grantham rifle pictures posted it was to show the finish after some time had passed., the purpose was to show how it changes with time. it is the same “ Exact Finish “ as the Donald Dehart Rifle has which was applied in 1965., the color gets deeper in time without turning black like Nitric Acid usually does. to answer the question of does Wallace make his screws? Mr. Gusler does not own power tools to make a rifle as he feels a true handmade rifle is just that “Handmade” meaning the use of 2 hands. The Text shown from the Publication from Colonial Williamsburg ., answers all questions about his integrity and knowledge. His over 40 years at Colonial Williamsburg was no accident., there are few that have ever lived, done more to educate the public on Virginia’s Colonial History And other states as well. Wallace Gusler does not build aged or relic rifles., as he feels time will do the best mod realistically. The stain that was used on this Grantham rifle is his Trade Mark as very few if any are willing to take the time to complete the process., Patience is the best tool any Craftsman can have.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jY7uh8/image1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hiNiaT)
(https://image.ibb.co/ez1bvT/image2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://image.ibb.co/gS9UFT/image3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Somewhat blissful in my ignorance, and more concerned with what I don't know rather than what I do, I saw this finish in his video on carving. Can someone take time out from the valuable editorials posted here and share what ratios of oil to tar, and where you get tar?
Thanks
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It depends upon what kind of "tar" you're using. Some people making a finish like this use pine tar, which you can get anywhere horse stuff is sold like an Agway or maybe Tractor Supply. Pine tar is tree-based. On the other hand if you want to use some form of asphaltum, which is a bituminous product, usually you can get it from an art supply although all kinds of $#@* is labeled as asphaltum so you probably won't be sure exactly what you're getting. Kremer is usually the best place to get various resins and supplies of this nature because they are very particular about describing the composition of any given product.
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The finish looks very monochromatic which I don't like. I prefer something more complex. Raw linseed oil should be washed to remove water soluble dross.
I hesitate to post this but here is some good info on processing linseed oil
https://www.tadspurgeon.com/content.php?page=just+oil
I know that viewing photos on a computer screen is not the same as seeing in real life, but to me this finish looks like it lacks the depth of other finishes. It just doesn't "pop" out at you.
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While I can't comment for lack of knowledge on finishes,I can say I really like the rifle.About the only thing about the finish I would have liked to see would be a little darker,perhaps with a little red tint,just a personal preference for that rifle though.
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I know that viewing photos on a computer screen is not the same as seeing in real life, but to me this finish looks like it lacks the depth of other finishes. It just doesn't "pop" out at you.
yes, it looks too high contrast. dark stripes, white wood, kind of like a zebra. What I don't like is the whiteness of the wood between the dark stripes.
Avoiding loss of chatoyance is desirable but you can't see that from a still photo. A video is required to see the 3D effect.
I have a gun that I like the finish on and will post a video later after I upload it to youtube. I don't think I can post a video directly here. You've heard the old saying a picture is worth a thousand words. Well a video is worth a thousand pictures... :)
lets see if this works, a link to my youtube video, taken indoors, it looks better outside in sunlight...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhOqOSEQNPI
(https://preview.ibb.co/nGntzy/color_in_stripes.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d8wWmd)
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I like the finish a lot, and appreciate you showing it to us. You went to a lot of work on Gusler's finish technique, and showed the patience to complete it nicely.
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Unsolicited Moderator editorial (my views only)
This is kind of an awkward topic in that we are critiquing the work of someone who didn’t present it for critique and isn’t in the room. The moderators wish we had more pro builders who would share their work and participate in discussion. Perhaps discussions like this, well intended in their inception, probably convince professional builders not active on ALR, to stay that way?
Not suggesting we need to laud and honor every significant, seminal longrifle builder who has contributed much to preserving and promoting the craft and history of the longrifle, but it’s probably helpful to consider their contributions. It’s challenging when amateurs and journeymen (like myself) would approach things differently or perhaps come to different conclusions about an unsigned rifle’s likely attribution than a master like Wallace, because we are, at least in our own minds, equally invested.
Just musing here, not making rules or restricting discussion. Carry on.
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Unsolicited Moderator editorial (my views only)
This is kind of an awkward topic in that we are critiquing the work of someone who didn’t present it for critique and isn’t in the room. The moderators wish we had more pro builders who would share their work and participate in discussion. Perhaps discussions like this, well intended in their inception, probably convince professional builders not active on ALR, to stay that way?
Not suggesting we need to laud and honor every significant, seminal longrifle builder who has contributed much to preserving and promoting the craft and history of the longrifle, but it’s probably helpful to consider their contributions. It’s challenging when amateurs and journeymen (like myself) would approach things differently or perhaps come to different conclusions about an unsigned rifle’s likely attribution than a master like Wallace, because we are, at least in our own minds, equally invested.
Just musing here, not making rules or restricting discussion. Carry on.
Mr. Gusler has forgotten more about building longrifles than I am ever likely to know, and his body of work speaks for itself. That he is a true master at this art isn't in any doubt. That said, I don't like this finish as much as I like some others :)
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I have Wallace's DVD in which he demonstrates forging , filing, and finishing a pipe tomahawk . He uses the same stain and finish on the handle as described here, and it looks terrific. That said, I haven't been satisfied with my attempts at this process, so can only deduce that I'm missing something. Perhaps the "tar" I used reacted somehow with the oil ?? Anyway, I experimented with this, but haven't changed from my usual finishing process which so far has survived many hunting seasons. BTW, I have used multiple applications of a chewing tobacco solution on a couple of rifles I built 20+ years ago, and they still look fine today, so I've no doubt that different stains were employed if for no other reason than availability at the time.
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Rich, MGillman stated in the first post that Wallace asked for it to be posted for him. Maybe he's having internet or computer issues.
This being said I don't think ANYONE here is criticizing the work, design or what have you of the rifle in any way. The subject of the thread is the finish and I think we've all largely stuck to that.
I don't particularly like it either. HOWEVER: I say this with a couple of caveats. First, when dealing with maple of this type of figuring and a lot of carving, it sure is nice to use a finish that doesn't really raise the grain like a water-based finish would. Furthermore, a piece of maple like this will benefit (in appearance) from handling, weather and dirt infiltration over time and this finish sure as heck will permit that to happen. I will also say that - as was noted in Wallace's paraphrased or quoted words in the original thread, after the passage of time and handling, the piece will take on a much less 'harsh' or dramatic look. It will indeed look better and better but unfortunately many of us will not live long enough nor use the rifle constantly enough to see it!
I suspect Wallace is basing this finish on reverse-engineering of original pieces that he is either emulating or in other words an original style within he is working, a regional thing in other words, possibly the rifles from one of the original JHAT articles that he wrote up. They appear to be much-aged versions of a finish like this, probably no aqua fortis involved.
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I think it looks good. Most of the time guys are trying to get it darker with more contrast. This one has that in spades.
Sticky BLO? A big juicy coat of regular linseed is a mess, no doubt. When BLO with Japan Dryer get gummy cut it off with burlap. Call it filer. That takes hours to overnight for me. BLO will never dry like a varnish.
Depending on the project, I stain the wood. I then seal and partially fill the grain with a couple thin coats of spar varnish. For porous woods I sometime make sanding mud filler with thinner and BLO and work it in. I then mix bee's wax, BLO, Japan dryer, and Turpentine to make "Slackum". I add black iron oxide powder the Slackum to further darken the pores. Wipe on - buff off. It will not be sticky. The wax is needed. I live where the temperatures are moderate and the humidity is low, that may work in my favor.
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Does anyone on this forum honestly think Wallace would use a finish that wasn't top notch and reliable? I saw and handled this rifle last year. Apparently anybody commenting on "sticky, tacky or gummy" finishes about this didn't understand the description / process and is entirely wrong. This finish does not get sticky or tacky. Not even in hot humid weather because that's what we have here. As for the depth of curl, it has incredible depth of curl. It is far more so than I have ever seen with alcohol stains so don't discount this at all as a traditional finish. Just do it right. Numerous coats are needed since this goes very deep in the pores of the wood. If its not rubbed off thoroughly after application and allowed to cure, it wont turn out correct. Pieces finished this way do get richer and deeper with time also. Now I am not a chemist but there is something going on at a molecular level with the asphaltum and oil during the curing process that dries this completely. If someone is in a hurry to get a finish on a rifle or wants different tones than this may not be the one for you but it is beautiful in its own right.
Darrin
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Whatever the stuff is that is sold as BLO in the hardware stores in recent history, isn't. I don't know what it is. But it doesn't dry. It might be a good oil additive for paint, but that's all I'd use it for!
About 30 years ago I bought a gallon of BLO that had been gathering dust for at least a decade in an old hardware store. That stuff dried well. It was thicker than the current stuff and according to label, did not have any driers added. I used it as part of a finish for some traditional bows (self-wood and bamboo backed laminated wood, where I have much more experience than with longrifles). I did not have issues with it. Put it on a little thicker than it should be, and it took perhaps a week to dry but it dried fine. Put on thin, and it dried in a day. Hand-rubbed of course, so it was thin and hot. The more I used it and the older it got, the better it got. I did tend to use something harder for the final surface coat.
Now not waiting for the finish to dry between coats does lead to a long drying time, pretty much regardless of the type of finish. IMHO, of course! Don't be in a hurry...
Most likely today I'll start refining some cold pressed linseed oil using the sand and salt water technique. Afterwards I hope to turn some of it into a varnish if I can get some good hard copal. I've not made my own and I want to try.
I expect Wallace Gussler is using the REAL linseed oil or quite possibly prepolymerized and sunlight aged real linseed oil (I think all that really requires is a little air, some sunlight, and time), not the chemical concoction you find nowdays in hardware stores. These are not at all alike. Just like what the hardware stores sell as turpentine is different than real gum spirits of turpentine. They don't even smell the same to me at least.
i found the finish on the rifle of this thread interesting enough I had to pick up some Asphaltum to experiment with. Not tar, but Gilsonite; it is a mineral pigment used for old style oil paint.
https://www.tadspurgeon.com/pdf/Refining_Linseed_Oil.pdf This may be of some interest.
Gerald
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Gilsonite - true Gilsonite, mined in Utah I believe - makes for a wonderful "asphaltum" that is not only hard and non-sticky, but also is relatively transparent which also is a true characteristic of genuine historical asphaltums. In fact, painters historically used light varnishes (i.e., thinned) tinted with hard and transparent asphaltums to add a bit of an 'aged' tint However, Gilsonite would not have been used historically as a varnish ingredient in this country until the very late 19th century, when it was discovered.
The problem with describing a finish as involving "linseed oil" and "asphaltum" is that it is essentially like writing up a recipe for a meal and noting that the primary ingredients are 'meat' and 'vegetable.' Come again? Hardware store linseed oil is garbage - we all know that. Of course there are better variants available if you purchase from an art supply, or you can make your own which will be much more true to the oil the early gunsmiths would have known. There are variations to be found in the linseed oil that was available in the 18th century, and as I noted previously, the term "asphaltum" was used to refer to a wide variety of bituminous products. Some were suitable for a wood finish or varnish subject to frequent handling and some were not. So my bottom line is this: be specific.
I distinctly remember someone a number of years ago at one point mentioning - somewhere - pine tar. I believe it was Wallace in a video, or perhaps in person, but if not then I apologize for attributing it to him. Sometimes in more recent years (20th century), this has also been referred to as asphaltum. It is not, very definitely not. Furthermore, it never would have been referred to as asphaltum in any historical context. Also, if someone can render a truly hard and non H2O permeable finish using pine tar, I have a bridge in Brooklyn available for sale. Good for horse hooves, though.
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That is for sure about the stuff sold in the hardware store as BLO. More like lousy mystery "oil". Stick to the pure linseed oil of known quality.
Darrin
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modern hardware store linseed oil has chemical driers added. If you want the good stuff you have to make it yourself. It can be washed to remove water soluble stuff and it can be heat bodied to improve drying.
Tupentine is extracted using some nasty smelling chemicals. Diamond G products in Georgia markets the good stuff distilled from pine sap. I'm not affiliated with them but it's the real thing.
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From what I have read asphaltum is basically coal tar that has solidified, that would have been available, pine tar, also wood have been available. Both will dye wood pretty dark or just a little depending on the application.
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It's not a question of what will color wood. It doesn't take much to impart color to wood. The primary issues are (1) particulate size, i.e will any given substance be relatively transparent or will it clog the grain in an unattractive fashion as per most pigments? and (2) will the substance render a *tangibly* hard finish or will it create/retain a 'tack'? Pine tar is a big no-go in this respect. Various coniferous-derived resins on the other hand are an entirely different story.