AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: louieparker on December 04, 2018, 09:33:45 PM

Title: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: louieparker on December 04, 2018, 09:33:45 PM: Can anyone tell me what barrel maker signed his barrel IB under a Fleur-de-lis.
Louie
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: James Rogers on December 05, 2018, 03:20:11 AM: John Bumford
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: louieparker on December 05, 2018, 04:36:09 PM: James, Thanks ,,,,Can you tell me when he was in business,,,,,,LP
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: Pukka Bundook on December 05, 2018, 05:49:18 PM: It'd be interesting to see a photo, Louie.

John Bumford 2, From Blackmore's "Gunmakers of London";

John, Son of John 1,
Apprenticed to Thomas Hardwell, 1735; Free of Gunmakers Co and proof piece 1742.
Elected assistant 1746; Master, 1741, 1756.
Gunmaker at the sign of the cross blunderbusses, Minories (London) 1754 -49. Minories 1759 -68;
8 George Street, Minories 1769-74.
Contractor to Ordnance, 1756 -71; East India Company , 1745 -73; Hudson's Bay Co,1757 -75.
Died and will Pr 1775.

Hope this helps!
Was Gunmaker, rather than barrel maker.

Best,
R.
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: louieparker on December 05, 2018, 06:44:35 PM: R......THANKS A LOT !

I will try to get you some photos.. I always hesitate to put a date on a gun...But in my mind , on this piece I thought 1760 - 1770.. Your information tells me that figure is close.. It's in original flint condition. Lock plate is convex and no bridal on the pan. Some kind soul has cleaned the tail of the lock. Other than that its a nicely carved Hudson Valley Fowler stocked in curly maple.... Louie
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: smart dog on December 05, 2018, 07:11:54 PM: Hi Louis,
If the lock is English and well made rather than a cheap trade lock, the fact that it has a round plate without a pan bridle suggests it was made in the 1730s-40s. Of course the gun could be made much later.

dave
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: louieparker on December 05, 2018, 07:34:44 PM: Dave there is no name on the plate, But it's nicely engraved. Certainly not made by some Jack Leg . I have not removed the lock.

R You said he was a gun maker and connected to the HBC. Is he known to have made guns for the Hudson Bay Co.? The trigger guard and butt plate are hand made, not cast......LP
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: Pukka Bundook on December 05, 2018, 10:45:05 PM: Louie,

Yes, in the above, it means he supplied guns to the HBC between those dates.
Of course, such guns could vary in quality, as they were meant for trade.
A simple unbridled lock would be quite common on these. There has been a lot of time for such a gun to require re-stocking between then and now.
It wouldn't likely have been stocked in curly maple originally.

Look forward to photos!

R.
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: louieparker on December 06, 2018, 02:37:36 AM: R............These are poor but lucky to get any,,Both camera and computer problems..

The butt is 5 3/4 inched high and 2 1/4 inch thick. Its full stocked and has the original rod with a 4 1/4 in sheet metal tip.....LP
(https://i.ibb.co/vVN5kjv/no11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mbns4cF)

(https://i.ibb.co/ngKHQw5/no10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WxRbBHY)

(https://i.ibb.co/VLfqG50/no7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8m17wtn)

(https://i.ibb.co/Gp9Vq1R/no8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bmFrkyX)
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: rich pierce on December 06, 2018, 02:47:20 AM: Very nice, Louie.

Take a look here:http://www.flintriflesmith.com/Antiques/bumford_tradegun.htm
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: Mike Brooks on December 06, 2018, 06:12:47 PM: Great Gun Louie. Can we see some more? Like trigger guard and buttplate finials. How long is the barrel now? What bore? I'm pretty sure most of these river guns were made around imported barrels, not from broke down donor guns.
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: louieparker on December 06, 2018, 09:27:59 PM: Mike
The barrel is 47 inches and measures .655 ... Has front and rear sights. Has a nice fore stock molding.
I can't get more photos now..will attach one of the carving at the rear of the guard that I forgot yesterday.. Both the guard and BP are simple.. The guard has some simple engraving.
(https://i.ibb.co/zxfMcW3/0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KhyPZct)
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: moseswhite on December 06, 2018, 09:35:31 PM: It is a cool gun just out of my realm of knowledge ......
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: Mike Brooks on December 06, 2018, 09:48:27 PM: Quote from: moseswhite on December 06, 2018, 09:35:31 PM
It is a cool gun just out of my realm of knowledge ......
It's a Hudson Valley fowling gun. See Grinslade's book on fowling guns.
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: louieparker on December 06, 2018, 10:16:40 PM: Yes, that's what it is . Not as long as some but never shortened....It come out of an old collection in upstate New York.
Wish I knew more about Bumford and his dealings in this country... LP
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: Shreckmeister on December 07, 2018, 04:07:31 PM: Thanks for sharing those pictures of a great early fowler. I also admire the curly maple table top. Did you make that Louie? I’m getting ready to start one myself.
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: James Rogers on December 07, 2018, 04:59:51 PM: Thanks for sharing those pictures!
Title: Re: Eighteenth century barrel maker
Post by: louieparker on December 07, 2018, 05:00:26 PM: Shreckmeister ......No I didn't make it. It was made in Morrow Ohio by David Smith.. He makes great painted furniture. I assume he is still in business. This furniture was made about sixteen years ago....LP