AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Cuboodle on December 15, 2018, 04:41:52 AM
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My 1st shot from a whistle clean bore is always a flyer. I read an article online that condones a spoiler shot before going afield. I admit my 2nd and future shots after just a wiping patch are on there mark. With PA flintlock around the corner I was going to give it shot pun intended. Anyone else do this?
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Never. My first shot is usually the best of the day. I hate to waste it.
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Since I'm not willing to walk around with a rifle having a fouled bore for the entire hunting season, no , I don't start with a fouled bore. My hunting loads are pretty much spot on from 1st shot on. Now, if by a fowled bore , you are referring to the use of goose grease as a lube, I'd be willing to give it a try ;) ;D Honestly, with a mink oil lubed patch /ball combination I've not had a problem. I would take a look at your patch and lube and see if you can get rid of that 1st shot flyer.
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I too start with a clean bore. If I don't get a shot, it's Still clan that way!
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Clean dry bore
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I start with a clean bore and my first shot is usually a good one. I agree with bob in the woods that perhaps you need to give some attention to patch lube combinations etc.
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My 1st shot from a whistle clean bore is always a flyer. I read an article online that condones a spoiler shot before going afield. I admit my 2nd and future shots after just a wiping patch are on there mark. With PA flintlock around the corner I was going to give it shot pun intended. Anyone else do this?
If you were to shoot the gun over a chronograph you would see that the first shot out of a clean bore has a lower velocity than a second and 3rd shot even when you wipe the bore between shots. That lower velocity with the first shot gives you the flyer. Here in PA I suggest that the flintlock deer hunters use a big larger charge for the first shot. Try adding 10 more grains of powder for that first shot. Should bring the velocity up to what would be seen in a bore that has had a few rounds through it.
Bill K.
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I have to agree with others.... try some different patch and lube combos.... All my guns, both flint and cap shoot first shot spot on...….
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Is the first shot on a clean bore consistent? If it is and should be. Sight in the gun for that first shot. Then all the shots with a fouled bore will be the flyers.
I always hunt with a clean bore.
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I foul, always have.
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For hunting, a clean bbl here. That way I don't have to clean it if I don't shoot it. Block the terch and it stays loaded for the hunt, one day or 21 no difference. No way I would do that with fouled bore in our moderate temps (blatant humidity).
Fouled for competition shooting absolutely.
Also I really dig what Bill (MM) says up here in this thread, paraphrased: If your first and second hunting load shots are too far apart---GAS UP the first shot, and only the first shot to bring it back into the group. Seems rather easy no?
Absolutely ballistically proper. Does anyone here do that?
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The first shot from my Lehigh 36 is always a flyer, but that's the only gun of mine that is like that..
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Some day, a person should take some water to the range and make a 1st shot group. My old .69 is pretty consistent with the first shot- usually an inch and 1/2 higher than the subsequent, fouled group.
When using the thick .034" patches & an identical load for powder, the balls strike in line with the sights that were 'set' in 1986. With the thin .022" Canvas patch, I actually got some right windage, and of course a lousy huge group for shots 2 through 5.
With the thick, patch, the fouling is useful, one simply has to 'hold' for it. I-too leave my gun 'clean' but loaded, for the season until it is used.
(https://i.ibb.co/zrY1SDz/50yds.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yX1D87r)
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After putting some thought to this I think starting with a fowled bore would be difficult...unless you loaded it with very small fowl. :P
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For sighting in cold clean barrel(first shot). How do I get that same "barrel" condition for sight in shots, water and many patches or windex type cleaner? What do you do?
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Small spray bottle of water.
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I never foul the barrel and the first shot always seems to be well within the group. Of course one shot is all I get at a deer. But I've also shot multiple deer within an hour or so of stand time and the shots hit just where the sights say. If I don't get any shot at all I can leave the gun loaded until the next time in the bush.
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I used to just fire a pan full of primer before I loaded. The idea was to burn the oil out of the touch hole. Out in a dry clime, didn't have any problems with that procedure. Rethought that and now I run a few dry cleaning patches to take up any oil in the barrel. Then I take my ball discharger and shoot a blast though the touch hole. I load the gun, the bear greased patch lubes the barrel when I ram the ball on the powder. Compressed CO2 really dries out a barrel.
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My 1st shot from a whistle clean bore is always a flyer. I read an article online that condones a spoiler shot before going afield. I admit my 2nd and future shots after just a wiping patch are on there mark. With PA flintlock around the corner I was going to give it shot pun intended. Anyone else do this?
I too ‘had’ this problem and used to hunt with a fouled bore. But with a long season, no shots at game, and add in rainy weather ... and it isn’t ideal. In my case, I use mink oil as the lube whilst hunting. So my regimen “was” (key word here - ‘was’) to put a patch through the barrel w/ mink oil on it, thinking I was conditioning the bore, with a fouled shot.
I now believe I added TOO much lube to the bore, making it far slicker than a typical shot. So I now take the clean gun, put some dry patches to it, then load it for hunting. But after loading I can the bore to and above the load with another dry patch. Lo’ and behold that has made the 1st hunting shot fall within my typical group. And yes ... I too hunt the late PA muzzleloading flintlock season.
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I always use alcohol with pipe cleaners and Q-Tips to dry out the pan, frizzen and touch hole. And since I preserve with Barricade, I can wipe out the bore - usually do - or not. Barricade dries so no oil is left in the bore.
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I always take a "fouling" shot , wipe, not clean, and proceed to reload. I'm one that wipes between every shot on the range, Probably mind over matter but I feel it creates similar bore conditions for every shot.
Mark
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I've always started with a fouled bore, for that very reason.
Mr. Knights idea of boosting the first charge has me intrigued. I may have to test it out.
Either boost the first charge, or experiment to see if there's a quick-n-easy way to get it to the "whistle clean" state in the field. Maybe carry a tin of cleaning patches soaked in MAP solution? Keep a wool mop in a small bottle of MAP?
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Lol after reading bjj's post, a funny thought struck me. When hunting, all of my charges are boosted.
When hunting I am using 165gr. 2F Goex.
With the Mink Oil I use, the first shot from the clean bore is on the group.
With the squib-load of 3drams(82gr.) to 85gr. 2F, there is a difference in poi which amounts to about 1-1/2in. at 50 yards.
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Using my simple system. I don't get shooting different loads. I sight the gun in with my clean bore with a hunting load. Usually around 80gr for all the game I hunt. 2nd shot will also be on a clean bore and to the same POI as the first shot. Why wouldn't it be?
I've never needed a 2nd shot, so I don't concern myself with it too much, except to make it just like my 1st shot. It's a muzzleloader. Swabbing is part of shooting/hunting a muzzleloader for me. I have lots of patches and time.
I'm not sure how I could be any more consistent?
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I just finished reading a similar thread somewhere else. This idea of the first shot being the only one that matters is perplexing. Is the only game people hunt with muzzleloaders deer and larger?
I went rabbit hunting with my .36. I think it would kinda stink if I had to clean between shots the same way I do at the end of the day. It would also kinda stink to take one shot at a rabbit then call it a day.
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Never had an Elk wait while I fired a fouling shot and reloaded.
Work a load up where your rifle will shoot where you are holding it. . Work the cleanest load up shootin off the bench then shoot off hand to finalize point of aim.
Carney
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I just finished reading a similar thread somewhere else. This idea of the first shot being the only one that matters is perplexing. Is the only game people hunt with muzzleloaders deer and larger?
I went rabbit hunting with my .36. I think it would kinda stink if I had to clean between shots the same way I do at the end of the day. It would also kinda stink to take one shot at a rabbit then call it a day.
Yes, my system is for big game. However, hunting for small game can still be done with a clean bore. You'd just be swabbing more. Nothing really changes.
If swabbing is too much work? Shoot a fouled bore. Your choice.
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OldMtnMan,
The OP says he does do a 'tween shot wipe.
I've noticed the same thing. That first shot from a pristine bore is off the mark. Just running a spit-moistened patch down the bore once-and-out doesn't really clean it that thoroughly. Thus the subsequent shots group in a different spot.
When I get home, before putting my gun up for storage, I will run up to 6 patches or more down the bore to really get it clean enough that I don't think it will rust in storage. Shooting once at an elk, then taking the piece home to thoroughly clean seems tolerable. But trying to run half a dozen patches down the barrel between squirrels seems a bit discouraging. To paraphrase Waylon Jennings, "Are you sure [Dan'l Boone] done it this way?"
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OldMtnMan,
The OP says he does do a 'tween shot wipe.
I've noticed the same thing. That first shot from a pristine bore is off the mark. Just running a spit-moistened patch down the bore once-and-out doesn't really clean it that thoroughly. Thus the subsequent shots group in a different spot.
When I get home, before putting my gun up for storage, I will run up to 6 patches or more down the bore to really get it clean enough that I don't think it will rust in storage. Shooting once at an elk, then taking the piece home to thoroughly clean seems tolerable. But trying to run half a dozen patches down the barrel between squirrels seems a bit discouraging. To paraphrase Waylon Jennings, "Are you sure [Dan'l Boone] done it this way?"
His shot is off what mark? If you sight in the gun for the first shot on a clean bore the fouled bore shots will be the flyers.
This only works if your gun can shoot consistently with a clean bore. A gun that will shoot the same with a clean bore and a fouled bore is the best but are rare. So, you have to pick one of them to sight the gun in. I like guns that will shoot small groups on a clean bore. That way I can hunt with a clean bore. I usually hang onto those guns.
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OldMtnMan,
Hey there we go! I like guns that will shoot best with a dirty bore. That way I can keep hunting after I shoot once. So all those guns that don't shoot well with clean bores you can just send 'em on over to me! ;D
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When you're retired you look for stuff to do. I choose swabbing as one of them. ;)
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When shooting an NMLRA 6 bull target, my first shot on the practice bull is usually a 10 or an X with a clean bore. It goes downhill from there.
Are my subsequent shots flyers?
Put your rifle in a mechanical rest to see if your first shot with a clean bore is a flyer or if it is just you.
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In the bush after game, large and small, mink oil is my lube of choice. Perhaps one of the reasons that the first shot from a clean barrel centers my groups is that I load tight combinations. The fact that I'm a lousy shot doesn't enter into the equation. ::)
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I'm with the fouled bore gang. I pour a half charge of loose powder down the barrel, point it skyward and let her rip. THEN, load her up for hunting.
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Imho, firing off a "fouling shot" then reloading for the hunt can get you into ignition troubles in humid conditions.
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Was simply talking of loading about 50 grain of 2f and firing that off. Then a dry patch rodded down flipped and rodded again then tossed then load with my sighted in load of 120gr 2f Shooting a .58 cal rice bbl on a mark silver Virginia. Truth be told I do use a Co2 discharger and do a clean between long delays.
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In my .54 deer rifle, I’ve found that I can get the first shot to shoot the same as following shots by:
First, getting the barrel and touch hole clean and dry of oil or grease. Loading with a tight patch lubed with just a film of bear oil. It’s important that the load does not have a too slick lube.
Following shots are loaded with a slightly thinner patch that allows quick reloads with the wood ramrod, but still fit well enough to shoot reasonably accurately. I don’t wipe between shots. All shots will group in the same area at 50 yards. I can leave the gun loaded for the whole season without worrying about rust or moisture until I shoot it once.