AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: rfd on December 28, 2018, 03:31:50 PM
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A kit muzzleloader long gun, like a kit model plane, is an assembly, not a build. This is not a bad thing, it is what it is. Not everyone has the skills, and/or tools, and/or time for such a venture. I'll add - there appear to be "levels" of kits, some are literally screwdriver built, others require varied levels of skill, tools and time.
To build (or "make") a long gun depends on one's definition of those words, particularly the word "make". In terms of a long gun build, will all the components be created from sourced raw materials? Where does one draw the line at "raw materials"? Will it still be a "made muzzleloader" if one purchases one or more pre-made: barrel, lock, double set trigger, castings for butt plate and trigger guard and nose? If one has a plank of wood for the gun stock, will the completed stock be an equally "made" stock no matter if a CNC machine was used or manual chisels, rasps, and drill? Are there levels or categories of "made" guns?
What is considered to "make a muzzleloader"?
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I dunno.....Fred
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Presuming the builder/assembler is a nubie and is proud of his/her accomplishment and shoots his/her pride and joy which furthers our sport who cares. Who knows on the next build and as you know there will be one he/she might say I can put a lock kit together, I can make rr pipes, I can inlet a lock or a trigger, etc.
I am not slighting you true builders in the least. There is more talent on this forum than I can ever hope to accomplish, but you got to start somewhere.
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I have built from a plank and from a precarve, the precarve took more work to finish than the plank build. Neither were anywhere close to being just "assembly".
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Well, I’ll put an opinion in here, too. If I read history correctly, many of the old time builders did not fabricate the whole gun. They bought barrels from barrel mills if there was one locally, and locks which were imported from England, and probably some castings from suppliers if they were close to a larger city.
If I have bought a barrel and lock, and rough castings, (and maybe some smaller pieces.) and worked from a plank and fabricated the rest, and put them together and finished it to the point it’s respectable and shootable then I feel comfortable saying that I “built” the gun.
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I have always felt that gun builders fall into two categories, gun makers and gunstockers. Gun makers are the ones that hand make many of their own parts for their gun and gunstockers assemble store bought components.
David
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Colonial Williamsburg’s amazing recovery and practice of building everything has led to a lot of folks thinking that the masters of American longrifle making did the same. Some probably could forge a barrel and lock, but that was not common practice. Casting one’s own buttplates and guards was probably more common, and for later iron mounted rifles, forging the mounts was part of the build. Building from a blank with a bought barrel and lock is the same as probably 75% or more of early American rifles. Later on, in the percussion period, very few American builders made their own locks and the vast majority of small shops used bought barrels.
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This is the same sort of thing I've seen posed to bow makers. If you assemble a recurve or longbow with bought parts and plans from a supplier, are you a bowyer? How about if you design your own and gather the wood and grind your own lams? Or must we cut down trees and make wooden selfbows with hand tools? Are you a 'real bowyer' then?
I figure, who cares.. Like you said, there are levels. It's a process, a journey, we all start at different times and places on the trail, and some go farther than others. Some want more challenge, or want to develop their skills to greater degrees, and folks often have different goals and values within the same craft. Hand tools, power tools, bought or home forged, it's all good. I like it all and respect each for what it is. In the end the only person your 'hows and whys' should really matter to, is you.
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We know that gunsmiths in the past bought at least some of their barrels,locks, hardware, and wood from other places. They also used apprentices to do a lot of the grunt labor in letting barrels, fitting and filing hardware etc. So doe this mean that gunsmiths like J.P. Beck, Jacob Dickert, and others having help in their shops and using bought parts not be considered gun builders. I admire people that can build every part of a long rifle. They are true craftsman. I suspect back in the day few gun builders worked alone and made every part on the rifles coming out of their shop.
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HAve built them from several manufacturers kits as well as planks from basically scratch. All were far more than the term "assembly" would suggest,
Right now I am doing my first Kibler kit. It is very close to "assembly" but still there are some things that are a lot more than "snap together". As an example, the butt plate took me maybe an hour instead of a week, and is the best fit I have ever done, what little I had to do. Still the opportunity is there to mess it up if not careful.
To each his own. We are all of different skills and tastes, yet it seems the same addiction!
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I have always called my self a "Gunstocker" or "Gunmaker". I try to void making parts if can, but will make mounts if I have too. I refuse to make barrels or locks, just not even remotely interested in that sort of thing. So yes, I do make long guns, they certainly don't make themselves. ;)
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How about; if you did not sign the barrel flat, could people recognize the finished piece as your work when viewed with others of a similar style?
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How about; if you did not sign the barrel flat, could people recognize the finished piece as your work when viewed with others of a similar style?
Yes, I believe so. I can recognize many people's work with out seeing a signature, Some of it from across the room. As I think on it a bit I think I could come up with a pretty long list.
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an investarms "screwdriver" trad muzzleloader kit literally can be assembled and ready to load and fire with a screwdriver and nought else. on the other end of the spectrum is fully handmade flintlock long gun (from raw components) in the colonial williamsburg gun shop.
are there degrees or levels of "gun builder/gun maker" between the above bookends? if so, where or should any of this matter?
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I recall seeing adds by John Bivens years ago and he was a self-described "gunstocker".
J.B.
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How about; if you did not sign the barrel flat, could people recognize the finished piece as your work when viewed with others of a similar style?
Yes, I believe so. I can recognize many people's work with out seeing a signature, Some of it from across the room. As I think on it a bit I think I could come up with a pretty long list.
Those would be gun makers then. They are sought after for what THEY can do, not just a mere commodity that is produced.
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Here we go again...! This is a never ending question. When I first got on here 8 year's ago. Really it's up to the maker of the firearm. How much do you want to hand make ?
Great if you can forge or cut a barrel out of steel. Make all the lock parts. Grow your own stock wood. Cast or forge your own butt plates, trigger guards. But in reality how many can do that ? What you call yourself is your business.
Does it really matter ? I've seen personally a lot of the fine work members here have made. To me they should take pride in calling themselves gun builders. It's just not picking to me.. Oldtravler
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I despise the word "build". It has become a major peeve of mine. It is everywhere. "build quality", "my next build", "I'm building a gun", build, build, build....... with everyone and their brother "building" AR-15's, slapping parts together like Legos.... drives me up a wall. I haven't made a rifle in a while now, but when I do I MAKE them, I durn sure don't "build" them! ;D
It's funny how almost no one, even the most capable, wants to call themselves a "gunsmith" these days....
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I despise the word "build". It has become a major peeve of mine. It is everywhere. "build quality", "my next build", "I'm building a gun", build, build, build....... with everyone and their brother "building" AR-15's, slapping parts together like Legos.... drives me up a wall. I haven't made a rifle in a while now, but when I do I MAKE them, I durn sure don't "build" them! ;D
It's funny how almost no one, even the most capable, wants to call themselves a "gunsmith" these days....
And for me the usage of the word "platform".
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I despise the word "build". It has become a major peeve of mine. It is everywhere. "build quality", "my next build", "I'm building a gun", build, build, build....... with everyone and their brother "building" AR-15's, slapping parts together like Legos.... drives me up a wall. I haven't made a rifle in a while now, but when I do I MAKE them, I durn sure don't "build" them! ;D
It's funny how almost no one, even the most capable, wants to call themselves a "gunsmith" these days....
Ditto, I hate the term "build" as well. Never heard of it till I started on this forum.
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Years ago I ran across a description of what skills a German apprentice had to master to become a certified Gunsmith. I have no clue now where I saw it , but I do remember being in awe of the skills that were required and deciding to choose another career. I guess that in colonial times you'd have to be a competent blacksmith, machinist and woodworker and perhaps a Master would also have to be competent in engraving, decorative wood carving skill and perhaps even casting/foundry skills. I think the term "builder"
describes a person like me pretty well. A person that can assemble a basic undecorated muzzleloader out of parts that other people have made and whittle out a stock from a block. It doesn't seem to fit as well for those of you who are master machinists, engravers, carvers and such.
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I despise the word "build". It has become a major peeve of mine. It is everywhere. "build quality", "my next build", "I'm building a gun", build, build, build....... with everyone and their brother "building" AR-15's, slapping parts together like Legos.... drives me up a wall. I haven't made a rifle in a while now, but when I do I MAKE them, I durn sure don't "build" them! ;D
It's funny how almost no one, even the most capable, wants to call themselves a "gunsmith" these days....
That’s good info to have. I haven’t been around enough to know the lingo. It reminds me of people calling a magazine a clip. It sends shrills down my spine. Ughhh it’s a freakin magazine!!!
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Well, I for one consider myself a Gunsmith. A Gunsmith is someone who can work on all aspect of a gun. I do that with every gun I make. I have repaired a few muzzle loaders, and even more modern guns. I would wager that most professional gunsmiths today have not concerned themselves with muzzle loader construction, though they are generally proficient in repairing them.
I make my own ramrod pipes. I make my own triggers and trigger mounts. Every lock I have ever touched I have had to tune or modify or both. Even a Chambers lock, which is a great lock off-the-shelf can benefit from a bit of fine tuning. I have had to work on every barrel I have ever touched in constructing a muzzle loader. I make my own sites, and I make my own patch boxes. And, I am soon to begin casting my own trigger guards and butt plates. In other words, there is no part of a muzzle loader that I don't either modify or build.
Does that make me a gun stocker? Does that make me a gun builder? Does that make me a gun maker? I think it makes me all of these things, but those terms really are limiting in the scope of what I actually do. A Gunsmith takes a group of parts and puts them together as a functionally and aesthetically congruous tool. Some of the ancient gunsmiths did not make their own locks or barrels, and we still call them Gunsmiths. Most Locksmiths today don't make their own locks, yet they are called locksmiths.
I take a group of parts, made by me or not, and attempt to put them together as a functionally and aesthetically congruous tool, and I would wager that many others here who have answered this question actually do this too. But we are also a group of artists. Back in the day, a gunsmith was not usually considered an artist. Even if you are making the most simple gun that is based on a school or style, you are practicing an art in the form of the gun.
Matt
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I despise the word "build". It has become a major peeve of mine. It is everywhere. "build quality", "my next build", "I'm building a gun", build, build, build....... with everyone and their brother "building" AR-15's, slapping parts together like Legos.... drives me up a wall. I haven't made a rifle in a while now, but when I do I MAKE them, I durn sure don't "build" them! ;D
It's funny how almost no one, even the most capable, wants to call themselves a "gunsmith" these days....
I call it "building a gun" or "my next built" because I can't think of anything else to call it.
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This strikes me as one of those posts where we'd need a convention so we could all get into the same room.
When I walked into Dixons on a lark after a cowboy action match and walked out with a reborn interest in the 18th century, and when Anne and I moved down here to south central PA., I had no idea of the depth and scope the growing interest and fascination would call for.
Compare the Gunsmith of Williamsburg video with Wallace Gussler, William DeVane and Good-Night-David Brinkley with all the snippets I used to review while writing A Season Of Purpose where it was so obvious that Arsenals waited for the lowest bidding gunmakers to assemble arms in time of war and this becomes an ongoing topic.
Dover Books published one entitles "The Colonial Craftsman" by Carl Bridenbaugh. After reading it several years ago, I started to dig through his footnotes for lack of a bibliography. There's no end to this topic once the 18th Century Skilled worker is put into a context of making money.
Probably the core issue here is what did did these guys do to feed their families?
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Hi Folks,
Please keep the discussion about traditional muzzleloaders. We don't discuss clips, magazines, or AR-15s here.
dave
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A kit muzzleloader long gun, like a kit model plane, is an assembly, not a build. This is not a bad thing, it is what it is. Not everyone has the skills, and/or tools, and/or time for such a venture. I'll add - there appear to be "levels" of kits, some are literally screwdriver built, others require varied levels of skill, tools and time.
To build (or "make") a long gun depends on one's definition of those words, particularly the word "make". In terms of a long gun build, will all the components be created from sourced raw materials? Where does one draw the line at "raw materials"? Will it still be a "made muzzleloader" if one purchases one or more pre-made: barrel, lock, double set trigger, castings for butt plate and trigger guard and nose? If one has a plank of wood for the gun stock, will the completed stock be an equally "made" stock no matter if a CNC machine was used or manual chisels, rasps, and drill? Are there levels or categories of "made" guns?
What is considered to "make a muzzleloader"?
Hi,
This discussion has come up often over the years. Personally, I don't understand why it matters. I unabashedly call myself a traditional muzzleloader gunsmith. I can do everything except make and rifle barrels. In truth, with the high quality of modern commercially made barrels and from a business perspective, I'd be a fool to make my own. I really don't care what label someone wants to adopt as long as they don't misrepresent their work. Recently, a finished Jim Kibler colonial rifle kit was on sale on TOW's website and described as a hand made rifle. There was no mention that it was a Kibler kit. In my opinion, that was tantamount to fraud.
dave
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I don't see where it matters either. I consider intelligence to be multifaceted, I am very good in some pursuits and a dunce at others but still consider myself an intelligent man.
It is the same with gun building/making/assembling, only the top tier guys have the accumulated skills to "do it all". The rest of us fall into our comfort zone at different levels of competence and produce what we are satisfied with. Some may be great at one aspect of building and not so great at others, I know I am.
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It's about language, words mean things. I ask "what kind of gun are you making". You respond " A Lancaster build". Why would you add the word "Build"? Or, "My next gun is a Woodbury build". What the heck does that mean? Seems to be common practice but it rubs my fur backwards. Very annoying, of course I'm nearly always annoyed these days. :P Folks don't make guns anymore, they now make "builds". Seems to be a cross over from the bolt gun crowd. Carry on......
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Many times accompanying "build" is "fitment" : )
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Think of it this way; you build a house, you may build an engine for your hotrod and you may build a gun, it is all the same, parts put together for the end result.
On the other hand I don't "build" a garden, I plant one or make one but "build" doesn't fit.
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Recently, a finished Jim Kibler colonial rifle kit was on sale on TOW's website and described as a hand made rifle. There was no mention that it was a Kibler kit. In my opinion, that was tantamount to fraud.
Amen, I think I would have to have pointed that out to TOW!
Dennis
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Think of it this way; you build a house, you may build an engine for your hotrod and you may build a gun, it is all the same, parts put together for the end result.
On the other hand I don't "build" a garden, I plant one or make one but "build" doesn't fit.
I agree Eric.
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It's about language, words mean things. I ask "what kind of gun are you making". You respond " A Lancaster build". Why would you add the word "Build"? Or, "My next gun is a Woodbury build". What the heck does that mean? Seems to be common practice but it rubs my fur backwards. Very annoying, of course I'm nearly always annoyed these days. :P Folks don't make guns anymore, they now make "builds". Seems to be a cross over from the bolt gun crowd. Carry on......
Mike,
I agree words matter and so does grammar. These days we take verbs, like "build", and turn them into nouns, and nouns, like "text", and turn them into verbs. I guess I am less annoyed by that than I am when someone calls a rifle "Lancaster" and it has some generic stock with hardware labeled "Lancaster" by the parts supplier. If you look at TOW's gun consignment sale pages, you see many guns labelled Christian's Spring, Lehigh, English fowler, etc, that have very little in common with originals and the label is pretty dubious.
dave
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It's about language, words mean things. I ask "what kind of gun are you making". You respond " A Lancaster build". Why would you add the word "Build"? Or, "My next gun is a Woodbury build". What the heck does that mean? Seems to be common practice but it rubs my fur backwards. Very annoying, of course I'm nearly always annoyed these days. :P Folks don't make guns anymore, they now make "builds". Seems to be a cross over from the bolt gun crowd. Carry on......
Mike,
I agree words matter and so does grammar. These days we take verbs, like "build", and turn them into nouns, and nouns, like "text", and turn them into verbs. I guess I am less annoyed by that than I am when someone calls a rifle "Lancaster" and it has some generic stock with hardware labeled "Lancaster" by the parts supplier. If you look at TOW's gun consignment sale pages, you see many guns labelled Christian's Spring, Lehigh, English fowler, etc, that have very little in common with originals and the label is pretty dubious.
dave
HA! My favorite is "Early Virginia". Seems to be a catch all for just about anything iron mounted. Or how about "SMR"? Seems to cover everything iron mounted with later features than "Early Virginia". Took me about three years to figure out what the abbreviation "SMR" even meant. Another favorite is "Smoothie"...too annoying to even discuss but is on par with "Smoke Pole". ::) Also add to my hate list: "Flinter" , "Rock Lock", "Front Stuffer" and a new one I read recently, "Poke Stalk". And don't forget the controversial term "Canoe Gun". Sure is fun complaining about stuff. ;D
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Well after reading through all this Nit picking. I've come to my own conclusions.
First is the kit issue. What your doing is assembling someone else's work. Period you didn't make anything, you didn't build anything. You assembled it.
Now you want to make a gun. So you get a barrel, lock and blank of wood on the bench. You have an idea what you want it to represent.
So you start making/ creating that gun. Which in my simple opinion is the word we should use.
Then when you are done. You have shown your artistic talents and workmanship. Now you are a craftsmen.
Some of you are true Master's of this art / hobby we do like to do.
Ok people have at it......!!! Oldtravler
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My take on this is WE HAVE JUST ABOUT RUN OUT OF SOMETHING TO ARGUE ABOUT!!!!!
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Mike
Poke stalk is not a new term for a gun as a child I remember my grandfather referring to his smoothbore (smoothie 😁)single barrel shotgun as a poke stalk. May just be a southern terminology. It generally refers to a cheap single barrel shotgun, whether modern or black powder.
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My take on this is WE HAVE JUST ABOUT RUN OUT OF SOMETHING TO ARGUE ABOUT!!!!!
Gonna be a long winter ain't it? ;)
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Yep
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who's arguing? this is totally a matter of subjective opinion, no more or less.
if one bought ...
- the barrel w/installed breech plug and drilled for a touch hole liner and dovetailed for lugs and sights
- a functional flint lock
- all the furniture
- a "pre-carved" stock
... is that a build or assembly? if considered an assembly, what of the above parts need to be in a "rawer" form to be accepted as a "build"?
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Mike
Poke stalk is not a new term for a gun as a child I remember my grandfather referring to his smoothbore (smoothie 😁)single barrel shotgun as a poke stalk. May just be a southern terminology. It generally refers to a cheap single barrel shotgun, whether modern or black powder.
I figured that may be the origin of the term. We have poke in Iowa, but nobody ever made a gun out of it as far as I know. ;D I thought cheap single barrel shotguns was an Iowa farmer thing. I think every farmer in Iowa has one with a busted stock he wants me to fix. ::) Obviously cheap single barrel shotguns are universal in the USA.
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who's arguing? this is totally a matter of subjective opinion, no more or less.
if one bought ...
- the barrel w/installed breech plug and drilled for a touch hole liner and dovetailed for lugs and sights
- a functional flint lock
- all the furniture
- a "pre-carved" stock
... is that a build or assembly? if considered an assembly, what of the above parts need to be in a "rawer" form to be accepted as a "build"?
Arguing? No, not me. I'm just complaining because I ain't got nothin' else. If you read the above you would realize we have completely eliminated the term "build". It is now VERBOTEN. Now, I gotta get back to my Lehigh build...….oopps. :o
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Terminology means little to me as it will vary from each individual on the ALR. I am more interested in promoting the muzzleloading interest than determining if he made bought or built a muzzleloader. Tim
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Amen Tim
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In an effort to keep this thread alive, I offer the following: I do not refer to myself as a gun maker, or gun builder, but an artisan. When pressed further, I explain that I make muzzle loading firearms from the 17th, 18th and 19th C. So far, I think everyone understands that. But sometimes, I have to go further to say that I buy the components for a particular piece from suppliers and make the firearm in my shop, usually from a plank of walnut or curly maple. Then I have to explain curly maple. Most recent conversation of this nature was at a wine tasting session on the Ruby Princess during a cruise of the Mexican Riviera in December. The gentleman next to me turned to me and asked: "So, what's your story!" I started by saying, "I was born at an early age."
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I despise the word "build". It has become a major peeve of mine. It is everywhere. "build quality", "my next build", "I'm building a gun", build, build, build....... with everyone and their brother "building" AR-15's, slapping parts together like Legos.... drives me up a wall. I haven't made a rifle in a while now, but when I do I MAKE them, I durn sure don't "build" them! ;D
It's funny how almost no one, even the most capable, wants to call themselves a "gunsmith" these days....
I call it "building a gun" or "my next built" because I can't think of anything else to call it.
Making locks is a skill set few have achieved and there are a few of us on this forum.
The LOCK is on the BACK side of the plate.I have used a number of L&R externals and some from Jim
Chambers Late Ketland which is a good lock as it comes from Jim or Barby.
My caplocks are made with cast hammers and usually but not always, my own shop made
plates.I showed a small Manton lock with L&R externals to a man at Friendship a few years
ago and he said it was and L&R lock and simply couldn't comprehend the idea that the real
and functional part of the lock was on the back of the lock plate.
I still have a few locks to make but am concentrating on set triggers for a while and have yet
to make up my mind as to whether or not I will do any more locks.I have had most of the material
for set triggers on hand for a very long time and can see no reason to let it be tossed after I quit
for good.
In closing I will say this forum has to be the best in this genre and SO EASY to use and I am
very glad to be a part of it with over 5000 postings to my name.
Bob Roller
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A kit muzzleloader long gun, like a kit model plane, is an assembly, not a build. This is not a bad thing, it is what it is. Not everyone has the skills, and/or tools, and/or time for such a venture. I'll add - there appear to be "levels" of kits, some are literally screwdriver built, others require varied levels of skill, tools and time.
To build (or "make") a long gun depends on one's definition of those words, particularly the word "make". In terms of a long gun build, will all the components be created from sourced raw materials? Where does one draw the line at "raw materials"? Will it still be a "made muzzleloader" if one purchases one or more pre-made: barrel, lock, double set trigger, castings for butt plate and trigger guard and nose? If one has a plank of wood for the gun stock, will the completed stock be an equally "made" stock no matter if a CNC machine was used or manual chisels, rasps, and drill? Are there levels or categories of "made" guns?
What is considered to "make a muzzleloader"?
Hi,
This discussion has come up often over the years. Personally, I don't understand why it matters. I unabashedly call myself a traditional muzzleloader gunsmith. I can do everything except make and rifle barrels. In truth, with the high quality of modern commercially made barrels and from a business perspective, I'd be a fool to make my own. I really don't care what label someone wants to adopt as long as they don't misrepresent their work. Recently, a finished Jim Kibler colonial rifle kit was on sale on TOW's website and described as a hand made rifle. There was no mention that it was a Kibler kit. In my opinion, that was tantamount to fraud.
dave
If not fraud then certainly a misrepresentation of the rifle.
Bob Roller
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Well, I guarantee I'm not a "real" gunmaker. I assembled a CVA Kentucky rifle from a kit when I was 15 or 16, and a CVA pistol from a kit a year later. Both were percussion and I haven't "built" since. I admire those who have the tools, skills and time to build "from scratch" and I think artists like Runastav and several others here are simply amazing. I may pursue "real" building when I retire in a few more years.
Having said that I'm in the camp that notes the history of the gunmakers from the 18th and 19th century -- they bought barrels, locks and even furniture as often as not. I can't remember the source, but I once heard it took more than 20 pounds of steel to make a rifle barrel -- and from an economic standpoint it was far cheaper to ship finished barrels than to ship the steel from which to make them. Our forbears weren't stupid, and wanted to make money, not lose it.
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This i post I s a little long in the tooth,a little like me,but an interesting subject,similar to the old time rod or motorcycle ( chopper) builder,hard to really define.i built a few kits in the past and learned things. To be a true flintlock or percussion gunsmith is to be a blacksmith of some ability also,like our famous Wallace, a master of many disciplines of metal work.I was a master farrier at one time,but there were other better master farriers and my back quit first,since then I’ve been a hobby blacksmith when the skill is needed for my various projects,I’m also a woodworker of some skill,a leather worker,a brass worker,a Horner,none would I consider a master level ,as a rifle shooter I have attained an expert grade in one discipline,but not master yet.
However in 2019 I built the crowning achievement of my muzzleloader building,I think it’s beautiful as do many others ,but it’s not a master grade rifle,but I am satisfied . Though I see the mistakes I made each time and the achievements I made each time I use and handle it ,I am happy.
I finished and fitted it using all rough cast parts,but I did not cast them,I fitted and inletted the lock and trigger system ,with hand chisels ,but I did not make the lock or trigger mechanism,( L&R) I did make the stock from a board of high grade curly maple using a bandsaw,hand chisels and rasps and files and a electric hand drill( I don’t advise curly maple as a first time handchisel choice!) those who know know this! I the middle of fitting the lock,a second of impatience,and chisel duller than it should have been,resulted in a cracked stock on the right side all the way through to the ramrod hole ,I did have the skill and glue to fix it solidly and have shot with many heavy loads it holds up( titebond III!) ,and I did not make the barrel it’s a Lyman GPR barrel which will eventually be returned to its home when I buy a custom .54 barrel.
All this talk is to illustrate what gunbuilder or gunsmith can be or better yet was in the flintlock era.many were Wallace Gisslers but many were also guys who built guns using barrels made by barrel making blacksmiths or locks made by…locksmiths who mostly made locks ,these parts especially rifled barrels were often made by guys who were specialists and sort of like today got orders from gunsmiths for locks ,barrels and even flints, many in America,though did make them…Lock,Stock and barrel ,but if youYou didn’t,couldn’t or can’t do it all don’t feel bad ,not everybody did !
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It's about language, words mean things. I ask "what kind of gun are you making". You respond " A Lancaster build". Why would you add the word "Build"? Or, "My next gun is a Woodbury build". What the heck does that mean? Seems to be common practice but it rubs my fur backwards. Very annoying, of course I'm nearly always annoyed these days. :P Folks don't make guns anymore, they now make "builds". Seems to be a cross over from the bolt gun crowd. Carry on......
Mike,
I agree words matter and so does grammar. These days we take verbs, like "build", and turn them into nouns, and nouns, like "text", and turn them into verbs. I guess I am less annoyed by that than I am when someone calls a rifle "Lancaster" and it has some generic stock with hardware labeled "Lancaster" by the parts supplier. If you look at TOW's gun consignment sale pages, you see many guns labelled Christian's Spring, Lehigh, English fowler, etc, that have very little in common with originals and the label is pretty dubious.
dave
HA! My favorite is "Early Virginia". Seems to be a catch all for just about anything iron mounted. Or how about "SMR"? Seems to cover everything iron mounted with later features than "Early Virginia". Took me about three years to figure out what the abbreviation "SMR" even meant. Another favorite is "Smoothie"...too annoying to even discuss but is on par with "Smoke Pole". ::) Also add to my hate list: "Flinter" , "Rock Lock", "Front Stuffer" and a new one I read recently, "Poke Stalk". And don't forget the controversial term "Canoe Gun". Sure is fun complaining about stuff. ;D
How about a soddy daisy, what's that?
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What is that ?…I had to ask!
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What is that ?…I had to ask!
A daisey that pokes up out of the sod