AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Justin Urbantas on June 20, 2019, 06:14:08 PM
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Started a half-stock English Fowler last week. Strictly a fast handling bird gun with a 30" 20 ga barrel. Super glue worked really well holding the tang to the hooked breech for inletting together. I
used the suggestions of drilling the ramrod hole by using the thimbles as a guide, and it worked well. Thanks for the advice, guys. I did a horn nosecap, and I'm doing a horn ramrod tip with a scrap piece. Here are a few pictures of the in progress build. Lock inletting tomorrow.
(https://i.ibb.co/syYN3Sd/20190619-171806.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2g4CK21)
(https://i.ibb.co/W25fC8b/20190619-171802.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qrjp6qt)
(https://i.ibb.co/Xk3JfbB/20190619-171752.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fGn0V2R)
(https://i.ibb.co/1LD1R3n/20190619-171744.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R9xfQ1S)
(https://i.ibb.co/YbBJBBQ/20190619-165617.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QXvhvvQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/Y0zLm9K/20190617-205702.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CPkHgdX)
(https://i.ibb.co/Sm6ckHD/20190617-205655.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YdNX5J4)
(https://i.ibb.co/9r483ts/20190615-104804.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YLdRTZp)
(https://i.ibb.co/cYQcBWX/20190615-104755.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7kKJf3N)
(https://i.ibb.co/tp27vDp/20190612-123556.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xqgpB6q)
(https://i.ibb.co/cL3QVnm/20190612-123544.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZmXx7DZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/jyTjKDX/20190611-120238.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K2X8ZWv)
(https://i.ibb.co/g7RKqF4/20190611-120234.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W32J8pV)
(https://i.ibb.co/Wtwk1cm/20190610-132548.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sHGKrF8)
(https://i.ibb.co/FBbStq8/20190610-132523.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mHCL7Fh)
(https://i.ibb.co/SPd1vcc/20190610-122453.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZVYwTSS)
(https://i.ibb.co/BVSxK0L/20190606-121459.jpg) (https://ibb.co/27fQYGq)
(https://i.ibb.co/L0PnYth/20190606-121340.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fXS4qpG)
(https://i.ibb.co/4VL46Jk/20190606-064621.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nLyQHRp)
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Neat project
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Way to go, Justin. Great project.
This one has English Styling, I think.
(https://i.ibb.co/sqgyR6G/AHunkeler20bore010-zps3e135d41.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Fygw1x)
(https://i.ibb.co/qnkQwFr/AHunkeler20bore015.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4fPrxgV)
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Yeah, it's going to be pretty similar to yours, Daryl. I will omit the cheekpiece and go with a spur-less fowler trigger guard though.
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Wow. That’s the most interesting series of pics I’ve seen in sometime. Very cool project.
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Here's how the ramrod tip looks finished. It's held in with a wedge, and glue.
(https://i.ibb.co/RgbKyHm/20190620-132035.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9pg0tYL)
(https://i.ibb.co/fxp9ysc/20190620-132021.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P6hMPdS)
(https://i.ibb.co/K2QXvkV/20190620-131958.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YcK3sMf)
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This is Taylor's, but it is on an 1853 rifle. An original SxS cap-lock fowler I had back in the 1970's, had the 'button' held on same as yours.
(https://i.ibb.co/xFtW2kf/DSCN2153.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DrHh1J8)
(https://i.ibb.co/zGN5sVp/100-7311-zpsfgtrd9tf.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6gNZY0z)
(https://i.ibb.co/6nPSKrk/DSCN2154.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r76hBFV)
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Nice work Justin.
Your ramrod pipes are a bit early for this type of gun though.
Daryl, I Do like the bore of that barrel you show.
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I am going with a Twigg lock or a Queen Anne lock. Trying for an earlier style ca 1790. Similar to this, though less embellished. http://www.sitemason.com/page/gBGD96
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Hi,
A Queen Anne lock is totally inappropriate for the time period. The Davis Twigg lock needs a lot of work to make right. Better choices for the period 1780-1800 are Chambers late Ketland and L&Rs Durs Egg. Also, usually the ramrod pipes soldered to the rib are very simple without a barrel shape despite any ornate form the rear ramrod pipe may have.
dave
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Hi,
A Queen Anne lock is totally inappropriate for the time period. The Davis Twigg lock needs a lot of work to make right. Better choices for the period 1780-1800 are Chambers late Ketland and L&Rs Durs Egg. Also, usually the ramrod pipes soldered to the rib are very simple without a barrel shape despite any ornate form the rear ramrod pipe may have.
dave
Thanks for the advice. I couldn't see the forward thimbles well in the picture, but the rear pipe looked close. I do have a Durs Egg lock I may use instead.
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What work does the Twigg lock need to make right? Except for cutting the pan away a little, it looks almost identical to the original to me. The one I have will trip from the shock of closing the frizzen if the lock is cocked, so I'm fixing that issue.
(https://i.ibb.co/mSfQsXc/0201big.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/SBq0SxV/Oakes-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CQxvLtV)
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Hi,
The mainspring is very weak and needs to be strengthened or replaced. I made new springs for it when I've used these locks (rarely). Look closely at your photos. On the original lock, note how close the flint and top jaws overhang the middle of the pan. On the Davis Twigg, the flint is left hanging well above the pan. Unless you use very long flints, it will barely kick the frizzen over and sparks fall everywhere with only a few going into the pan. As a result, after a few shots when the flint is duller and fouling has built up, the lock fails to produce sufficient sparks to ignite priming reliably. The flintcock is too tall and needs to be bent into shape, but better, replaced with a smaller flintcock. I replace them with TRS series 569 flintcocks, which work and look much better. The big flintcock that comes with the lock looks really clumsy and out of proportion. The flintcock is also too massive for the mainspring so the smaller cock helps that as well. However, I make new springs that are shorter so the lower leaf is shorter and more stout. After doing all that and balancing the frizzen spring, you can produce a pretty good lock but the real issue is the tumbler hole is too far back. It should be 1/8-5/32" further toward the pan. The boss for the upper bridle screw should almost touch the rear of the lock plate bolster.
dave
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Hi,
The mainspring is very weak and needs to be strengthened or replaced. I made new springs for it when I've used these locks (rarely). Look closely at your photos. On the original lock, note how close the flint and top jaws overhang the middle of the pan. On the Davis Twigg, the flint is left hanging well above the pan. Unless you use very long flints, it will barely kick the frizzen over and sparks fall everywhere with only a few going into the pan. As a result, after a few shots when the flint is duller and fouling has built up, the lock fails to produce sufficient sparks to ignite priming reliably. The flintcock is too tall and needs to be bent into shape, but better, replaced with a smaller flintcock. I replace them with TRS series 569 flintcocks, which work and look much better. The big flintcock that comes with the lock looks really clumsy and out of proportion. The flintcock is also too massive for the mainspring so the smaller cock helps that as well. However, I make new springs that are shorter so the lower leaf is shorter and more stout. After doing all that and balancing the frizzen spring, you can produce a pretty good lock but the real issue is the tumbler hole is too far back. It should be 1/8-5/32" further toward the pan. The boss for the upper bridle screw should almost touch the rear of the lock plate bolster.
dave
I do notice it now that I'm looking at it closer. You don't happen to have an extra flintlock? I know TRS is notoriously slow. Bending the existing one is definitely an option.
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In addition to being too large, the cock on the 'Twigg' lock is totally the wrong shape; it is just not 'English'.
The comments on the ramrod thimbles and their positions on the under-rib are also correct.
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What about the thimbles placement on the rib? This is a 30" barrel
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Are there any commercial cocks that would work for the Twigg lock? L&R, Davis, Chamers etc.??
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Are there any commercial cocks that would work for the Twigg lock? L&R, Davis, Chamers etc.??
I used the Twigg lock 2X. Couldn't get either one to function consistently. I would go with the Chambers early Ketland and a file.
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I have a Ketland for my next gun. This one is a sort of practice gun for a similar one I'm going to make for myself. I'm not going to just toss theTwigg lock in the trash, so I'll have to make it work one way or another.
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I have a Ketland for my next gun. This one is a sort of practice gun for a similar one I'm going to make for myself. I'm not going to just toss theTwigg lock in the trash, so I'll have to make it work one way or another.
I'd sell that Twigg lock pronto.
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A few years ago I made 14 Twiggs using the Davis externals.I saw one of these as an
unused lock for sale* at Friendship recently but don't know who had it.Whoever had it asked me
what I thought of it and I then told him the last one went to South Africa and that I made the
one he had.He was surprised at that statement.The lock has real potential but few if any of
them get the performance that is really needed to work right.
Bob Roller
*I did not ask the price.
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Justin, the 'Twigg' lock is remarkably true to the originals, except for the cock; I would make a new cock, cutting it from steel bar and basing it on photos in the Great British Gunmakers book. Any replacement internal parts could also be made relatively easily.
I feel that your forward ramrod thimble is a lttle close to the muzzle.
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Thanks for the advice guys. I can't justify spending the time making a new cock from scratch for this project. It looks like a cock from a Chamber's Early Ketland may work though. Anyways, this particular lock has no issues with sparking. It does require a longer flint though.
(https://i.ibb.co/7jtw8C1/20190623-120732-005-saved.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k52RkBS)
(https://i.ibb.co/P5kdD79/20190623-120529-006-saved.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HrZjhWx)
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The ones I used sparked like that 10-12 times then nothin', had to put in a new flint, knapping didn't help. So, short flint life and no way to get around it. I had one on a 12 bore skeet gun. I needed something that was super dependable as a hammer fall counted as a shot. This was not the lock for the job.