AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Tilefish on November 12, 2019, 06:06:47 PM
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Was thinking about getting a squirrel rifle built. And was wondering what caliber you all would recommend. It would strictly be used for squirrel rabbit and grouse. Also what style rifle would you recommend. Thanks
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Of the standard squirrel calibers, 36 is my favorite.
The 32 or 40 would work just as well though.
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Going to need a lot of practice with a .32 -- .40 if they are rifles and you want to shoot grouse with them. I'd recommend a .62 smoothie if you are including grouse in the mix. Squirrels and rabbits my favorite is a .32.
Dave
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Does your state have laws/regulations regarding minimum and maximum caliber size for small and large game? For instance, here in CT. I can't use a muzzleloader larger than .36 caliber for small game, and not smaller than .45 caliber for large game, and can't use a rifle at all for birds (turkeys or partridge), making a .40 almost useless here. But, I can hunt anything with a 20 gauge smoothbore, loaded with a single roundball for deer or shot for birds and small game.
If I had no restrictions like I do, I'd go with a .45, but I'd be hunting deer too. No deer on the agenda, I'd go with the .36 as I don't want to fuss with anything smaller, especially when it's cold.
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Brokennock we don't have any restrictions on small game calibers. 45cal min on big game. I already have a 45 and 54cal. Was looking strictly for small game mostly squirrels and rabbits. Thanks
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Anything from 25-40.
"Non-standards" are just as functional as "standards" and no small animal is going to give you much problem when struck squarely with -ANY- of those. Bigger holds up further assuming it's pushed to the same speed (but it burns more powder and lead). It's all trade-offs.
Don't let one caliber make/break your rifle buying/making decision unless you are a buy-everything-readymade sort of shooter. If that's the case, stick to the standards. OTOH, there are makers of bbls and moulds to serve those who don't limit themselves to the "standards".
If resale is a consideration, then I'd go 32 or 36 because you have a 45 and 40 is no big step from 45.
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Have a .40 and love it. A little more versatile than a .32 or .36, but they all will work.
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I prefer the .36 but any will work just fine. As for style, the rugged simplicity and clean line of the southern mountain rifle can't be beat, for me anyway.
Robby
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I've had ..32 and .40, now using a .36. I do think that one is the best after shooting it a bit, although the others worked just fine.
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I love to shoot all three but find the 36 is the best compromise for me. The 32 is too small for my clumsy hands (and RR too small) and 40 is larger than it needs to be since it's not legal for deer in VA.
Dennis
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[quoteIf resale is a consideration, then I'd go 32 or 36 because you have a 45 and 40 is no big step from 45.[/quote]
Yes forgot about resale, I have built 3 - 40's for resale and in our area it takes awhile to sell a 40, at least that's been my experience. In some eastern states a rifle has to be 36 or less for squirrels and at least 45 for deer. Yet further south the 40's are really popular for deer hunting and target shooting.
Dennis
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Thanks everyone for the feedback leaning towards the 36cal. Any suggestions on a builder would be much appreciated.
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Tilefish, it might be pricey, and there is a waiting list, but Mike Brooks on this forum consistently turns out firearms that are outstanding, and he generally gives the customer exactly what is asked, plus a good bit more.
If I didn't enjoy building so much, I would commission a squirrel rifle with him. Or a fowler.
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I like the .36 best for small game although I've taken more squirrels with the .32. Cold wasn't an issue when I was in Georgia but it definitely is up here in Maine. For a small game rifle nothing compares with an iron mounted SMR. I have a .40 and it's legal for deer and small game but I prefer a .45 over the .40 for deer.
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I see no problem with shooting squirrels,rabbits or grouse with a .45. Regardless of caliber head shots are paramount. The only advantage that a .32 or .36 has over other larger calibers is the cost per shot.
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Thanks everyone for the feedback leaning towards the 36cal. Any suggestions on a builder would be much appreciated.
Maybe would be a good time to look at the "Show us your Squirrel Rifle" thread on here that is 12 or 14 pages long. See if you like anything there. Correction, 30 pages long:
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=9725.msg91782#msg91782
Another good place to view a lot of various builders is on the Contemporary Makers blog. ON that blog, go down the right column to see some builders' with articles in the blog, and further down you'll find direct links to many builders and some of their blogs and such. There's a site search feature as well.
http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/
But do be aware that most of the popular builders have a pretty good backlog of orders. So be prepared to wait for top-notch work. The greatest thing about a "squirrel rifle" is that they can pretty much be any school that is suitable to the smaller bores. I won't call any names because I enjoy the works of so many and wouldn't want to leave anyone out. Enjoy the process.
And don't forget our classifieds for guns needing new homes. If your timing/luck is right, you might snag a real deal.
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Thank you Wade that was very helpful. Much appreciated
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It has been my experience that there is little difference between the trauma that a .29 cal and a .45 cal deliver. I’ve shot squirrels with both. It’s more about how much noise that you want to make in the woods. May I suggest .32-.36 cal with 15-20 grains of fffg? The problem with the .29 and smaller is that flimsy little 1/4” ramrod.
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Wade, the Squirrel Rifle thread is probably one of my favorite, all-time threads on this forum. Great recommendation.
My choice is a .36 caliber, mostly because of the better than average chance of encountering coyotes while I’m small game hunting. I have more confidence in the .36, though undoubtedly a.32 will probably do just as well. I tend to load my .36 a little hotter (45 grains of 3F) for the same reason. I sure wish Kentucky would let us turkey hunt with ML rifles...
Greg
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I built a .32 flinter in 1972. It has been my go to rifle for squirrel hunting. Some say it isn't accurate beyond 25 yards, but my first 1st place ribbon at our local MZ club was with that .32 at 100 yards. I've killed groundhogs with it out to 125 yards. It's just a powder charge change. I shot 30 grains at 25 and 50 yards and 60 grs at 100 yards, same sight picture. I've killed my limit with it many times. It's my favorite gun to hunt and shoot with. Cheap too. A pound of lead and powder lasts a L O N G time. That's my 2 cents worth with a history of use for the past 45 years or so.
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Another thing to keep in mind is (just like deer) where you hit them. I've killed squirrels with .58 prb. One example is a fox squirrel I killed by shooting it in the neck. That large ball made a tiny slit going in and going out. Two places to never hit them is the front shoulders and the hindquarters.
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The only muzzleloading rifle I have used on squirrels, is my .69. :o
Of course, a 2 bore might be better yet.
(https://i.ibb.co/L6f8w87/2bore-Sep4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/x8BbtdR/2-Boremuzzle.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DgvFHTS)
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Daryl with that gun there is no need to bark them. Just shoot down the branch it is on and smash it's head in with the but when the squirrel hits the ground.
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Daryl with that gun there is no need to bark them. Just shoot down the branch it is on and smash it's head in with the but when the squirrel hits the ground.
Or the tree ;D
Dennis
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Tilefish. PM sent.
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Tilefish, it might be pricey, and there is a waiting list, but Mike Brooks on this forum consistently turns out firearms that are outstanding, and he generally gives the customer exactly what is asked, plus a good bit more.
If I didn't enjoy building so much, I would commission a squirrel rifle with him. Or a fowler.
Thanks for the plug. I'm three years behind and no longer taking orders. I do put out several spec guns per year that are available.
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While that .69 of Daryl's might stop a charging squirrel in its tracks, I usually stop the charging rodent by cutting up its credit card. 8)
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Daryl, When you shoot squirrels, what do you lube them with? How far do they go? ;D
Robby
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Not sure about Daryl, him being a Canuck and all, but mine are lubed with a bit of Crisco, and they travel about 6' from the stove to the table.
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I just started squirrel hunting with a 32 cal and really like the accuracy of it. I have a 36 also and need a little more load development before I hunt with it. I have a 32 Cherokee barrel that I was trying to sell that had a small rough patch right at the breech and decided to have it rebored to 40 cal since no one wanted it and it was an extra barrel. When I am done I will have a Cherokee with 32,36,40 and 45 cal barrels and when I get loads worked up plan on using all of them for small game. Long story short if its accurate enough for head shots its a squirrel gun.
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Welcome, Bassdog1. I'm a fan of both the .32 and .36. As far as small game is concerned I consider them equal. The .36, however, is a better choice if varmints are on the menu.
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.36 is also better than .32, if there is a trail walk, gong shoot in the list of possibilities.
That is where I find the .36 calibre to be superior to the .32. It's all about ball weight.
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I agree if shooting very far or competing a 36 or bigger would definitely get the nod. Really excited to get the 32 back from Bobby Hoyt when it is re-bored to 40 cal. The 36 Cherokees are new old stock barrels that I was able to track down and I am really excited to get them all in the field this winter during some extended time off from work and try some squirrel and rabbit hunting with them.
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I know The "Muskrat" is in the minority (not unusual) but I still favor the.40 caliber. Yea a little big for squirrels but just fine for rabbits, coyotes, and in my state deer.
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Daryl said:
“The only muzzleloading rifle I have used on squirrels, is my .69. :o
Of course, a 2 bore might be better yet.”
Yes Daryl, but we’re talking about shooting AT squirrels, not shooting OUT squirrels ;D
Johnny
(Just wondering if they wear helmets when they get shot out of the muzzle)
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I would use a 58 caliber with #6 shot for squirrels and then reload with 100 grains
of Swiss 3fg and a patched ball for bear assuming the seasons are concurrent.
The 69 makes sense in Canada because of wooly mammoths roaming the Northern Tier. ;D
Bob Roller
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I’m with the 32 caliber crowd when going after squirrels or bunnies. With 12 grains of fff Swiss under a swaged 1-1/2 buckshot, I’m about an inch above point of aim (center of squirrel head with chin hold) at 25 yards and about an inch low 50 yards. I do use a felt wad between powder and patched ball, as I used a fairly wet patch, that if I let sit for any length of time on the light 12 grain powder charge will foul it a bit and change POI.
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I’m with the 32 caliber crowd when going after squirrels or bunnies. With 12 grains of fff Swiss under a swaged 1-1/2 buckshot, I’m about an inch above point of aim (center of squirrel head with chin hold) at 25 yards and about an inch low 50 yards. I do use a felt wad between powder and patched ball, as I used a fairly wet patch, that if I let sit for any length of time on the light 12 grain powder charge will foul it a bit and change POI.
Where do you buy 1 1/2 buck shot that is pure lead? I found hardened but assume swayed would be soft lead???
Dennis
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Starting probably 55 years ago I starting casting everything I shot and still do. Both the .32 and .36 really stretch out a pound of lead as well as a pound of powder. One of the experiences that endeared the .36 to me happened some years back. A friend and I were shooting at plastic soda bottles at around 80 yards or a bit more. With 20 grains of 3F and a .350" prb it was no trouble hitting hitting them even with the drop. Aiming at the middle resulted in a hit near the bottom; aiming at the top put holes in the middle. Of course it had a lot to do with my little .36 SMR which is very accurate.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KzWqhxRp/PICT0577-2-1-1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Starting probably 55 years ago I starting casting everything I shot and still do. Both the .32 and .36 really stretch out a pound of lead as well as a pound of powder. One of the experiences that endeared the .36 to me happened some years back. A friend and I were shooting at plastic soda bottles at around 80 yards or a bit more. With 20 grains of 3F and a .350" prb it was no trouble hitting hitting them even with the drop. Aiming at the middle resulted in a hit near the bottom; aiming at the top put holes in the middle. Of course it had a lot to do with my little .36 SMR which is very accurate.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KzWqhxRp/PICT0577-2-1-1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
That is a beautiful rifle Hanshi whats the barrel length on that squirrel killer
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Where do you buy 1 1/2 buck shot that is pure lead? I found hardened but assume swayed would be soft lead???
Dennis
I use 1-1/2 buckshot from Ballistic Products (https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Super-Buck-Lead-1-1_2-8-lb_jar-310/productinfo/SBK15/) with great success. They say it is hardened, but find I can mark it with my thumbnail. Using my ‘precision’ Lee Hardness Tester, the Brinell Hardness measures 6.3/6.4, at least in the lot I have.
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Where do you buy 1 1/2 buck shot that is pure lead? I found hardened but assume swayed would be soft lead???
Dennis
I use 1-1/2 buckshot from Ballistic Products (https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Super-Buck-Lead-1-1_2-8-lb_jar-310/productinfo/SBK15/) with great success. They say it is hardened, but find I can mark it with my thumbnail. Using my ‘precision’ Lee Hardness Tester, the Brinell Hardness measures 6.3/6.4, at least in the lot I have.
That's the one I found. Thanks
Dennis
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Tilefish, that little rifle has a 38" X 3/4" barrel. It loads and shoots great with the .350" ball and canvas or mattress ticking patch lubed with either Hoppes or mink oil. It's iron mounted. Here's a better view.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/mhkSkF/PICT0550-zps981eb196.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mhkSkF)
But just to show the .40 is no slouch and that I DO like the caliber.
(https://i.ibb.co/jH4BMdB/PICT0509-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jH4BMdB)
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Nice rifle and nice target Hanshi I need to find me a Flinter.
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Spot-on Bassdog1, you simply cannot shoot groups like that, with a cap gun.
{but, if you do, the gun likely thought it was a flinter, or wanted to be one}
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That does it gonna need to start working some serious overtime :) :)
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Annd...a flintlock will get you through the Pearly Gates; a cap gun will not. 8)
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I would vote for the .40cal.
Shot many squirrels with one. Loaded 18grns. Goex3F and regulated the sights dead on at 30yrds.
It was a flint originally but was bought and the owner changed it to a caplock.
I am going to change it back to flint.
Big John
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I remember why I built my first flintlock rifle. I had been shooting muzzleloaders since the 70s. Not very seriously, mostly I shot them for hunting.
In the 90s I started shooting with a local club. I got serious trying to decipher the vagaries of muzzleloading. I had a TC with a Green Mountain .50 it was a cap lock. Within a short time I became one of the top shooters in the club with this rifle.
There was a fellow in the club a, a good friend and a very good shooter. Every time I would best him, he would say "Yeah but you beat me with a cap lock". I had shot one of his flintlocks and didn't see any magic or difficulty in shooting one.
However I got tired of him telling me I beat him with a cap lock. Mind you he was a very good shot and our scores were always very close.
Finally I had had enough. I built me a .45 half stocked SMR. I worked up a load for it and was confident with it.
The first match I shot with it I bested my friend, and it wasn't close. So I asked him, "Do you like it better when I beat you with a flintlock.?"
The point is I shoot cap locks and flint locks I don't find one superior to the other, neither is going to get me through the pearly gates, and the only groups that count are those that are shot offhand.
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The first match I shot with it I bested my friend, and it wasn't close. So I asked him, "Do you like it better when I beat you with a flintlock.?"
The point is I shoot cap locks and flint locks I don't find one superior to the other, neither is going to get me through the pearly gates, and the only groups that count are those that are shot offhand.
Swap rifles with him and outshoot him. No, wait. Only if he instigates it. No reason to alienate a pal (unless he just won't hush). ;D
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If I were to hunt squirrels with my .40, the load would be 30 grains of 3F. That's the load that produced the tight group I posted. While 40 grains is my "everything/everyday" load, the velocity of around 1700 fps is too much for tiny critters. Thirty grains gives around 1370 fps.
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Annd...a flintlock will get you through the Pearly Gates; a cap gun will not. 8)
"He puts his hand on the flint, He overturns the mountain at the base." Job 28:9
8)
Mike
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Annd...a flintlock will get you through the Pearly Gates; a cap gun will not. 8)
"He puts his hand on the flint, He overturns the mountain at the base." Job 28:9
8)
AMEN!
Mike
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I like .32 and .36 caliber flintlocks for squirrels. In either Southern Mountain Rifle, or a Lancaster Rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/hBw2413/My-Southern-Squirrel-Rifle-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gShtfFk)