AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: HIB on January 28, 2020, 10:53:06 AM
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Gentlemen, Back in the 60's when we only had photos to work from and a "how to book" to provide building guidance, I made my first Kentucky rifle. Nicely figured stock [$65], Douglas .45 caliber barrel, Russ Hamm flintlock, and early, early castings. It was a scratch build including the ram rod channel and barrel inlet. Obviously I made a few mistakes. I have since retrieved the gun and would like to make improvements to bring it up to today's standards.
My problem: I made all the rookie mistakes including leaving too much wood along the barrel side rails, which I can address, but my biggest mistake was using 'Potassium Permanganate' as a stain. I did fairly well with all the other issues, like carving and getting the lock correct, but I am now looking at a green colored stock. Really green ! !
Other than a complete sand job which will affect the carving, how should I approach removing the green coloring ??
Respectfully, HIB
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Question before you start. I had thought that cromium trioxide was what caused the green stocks and potasium permanginate made them real dark. I don,t have spell check BTW. ;D
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Correct Smylee. Chromium trioxide aka Magic Maple turned some nice stocks green. I can’t understand why anybody would sell that stuff.
Regarding preserving the carving, while removing the current finish, ....... not easy. If like most of us your early relief carving is a little high you can scrape it down and it will still be fine. Scraping with various tools is what I would try.
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I remember hearing about some forma of bleaching that lighten wood and remove stains. Not sure if discoloration is considered a stain or not. Found this article as a starter.
David
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/bleaching-wood/
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My Dad used to talk about using Oxalic Acid to remove stains from wood. I don't remember how he said that he used it. Maybe it would work for this case.
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Hello Henry, It has been some bit of time since I have had a conversation with you. I still recall how helpful you were with study photos. If by chance you stained the barrel channel, it would provide an opportunity to try a bleaching agent as suggested (oxalic acid) and see how well the old stain removes. I helped a student refinish a stock some years ago and recall using a gel type varnish remover (can't recall the brand) to remove a previous finish. Certainly a bit of a gooey process. I am assuming your goal is to enhance the figure in the maple stock, not blacken it?
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I think Ron is on the right track. You must remove the finish over the stain before anything can get to the old stain. I'm wondering if using a bleaching agent might interfere with the application of the next stain. Once the finish is off, you might want to just apply tannic acid and ferric nitrate right through the CrO3 and Pot. Perm. If it doesn't work, you've done no damage...you'll then have to scrape and sand anyway.
The stripper that Ron describes is water soluable, I think. You apply it with a brush, let it soak for a period of time, and then scrub it with running water and a stiff brush. It's easy to use and does not damage the wood. It may be called "Polystrippa"?
Good luck Henry!!
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Thank you Gentlemen. Can't believe I found records of the build. The PP stain was recommended in a 1960's original 'how to' pamphlet. You could still legally buy the little red pills at the local pharmacy. No longer available today, I am told. That's the good news.
I also recorded using 'True Oil' over the stain. The gun is over 50 years old and has seen heavy BAR and hunting use. Says a great deal for 'True Oil' but throws up another red flag. Anything used in various environments for 50 years has got to be a bear removing to get at PP stain underneath.
This old Rev War rifleman is starting to like "green". Best to all my old friends who offered advice.
With respect, HIB
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HIB, the potassium permanganate has probably converted to potassium manganate which is green. That will happen if you heat it. You might try some dilute ammonia or vinegar to see if you can get it to go back to the brown permanganate color. I also suspect that ferric nitrate will overwhelm that manganate.
I think you can get most of the tru-oil off with scraping followed by a wipe down with lacquer thinner. Then you will have some serious de-whiskering.
Rehabing those old builds is kind of fun.
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Henry, I think we need to see a picture of this rifle! :)
JOhn