AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Contemporary Longrifle Collecting => Topic started by: Bob McBride on April 24, 2020, 11:58:31 PM
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Is it just me or are we seeing crazy numbers of $1000 guns listed here and elsewhere for what you would expect to pay for a Brooks, Martin, or Kibler gun? I know there are plenty of lesser known builders who can make a $3000+ gun but some of these I’ve seen lately seem to be asking double their value. I guess it’s new people dreaming, because it sure can’t be the market....
There’s always been a bit of 2k listings on gunbroker for an $800 longrifle but it seems I’m seeing it more last few months.
...I guess it could be a sign of the hobby growing.
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Bob, I think that’s a lot of wishful thinking and possibly “Throw it out there and see what bites”. I see buyers getting more specific. Fully Historically correct OR pure shooter. There’s a “Sweet Spot” in the Longrifle market. Clearly 95% of the buying market is looking to get the best gun made in the $1200.00-$2500.00 range. Beyond that (in my eyes as an avid collector) the air tends to get a little thin. There are a few guys out there that are willing so shell out $3500.00 but a rare few beyond that. There are a whole other set of variables out there that we can discuss but the sad truth is that most of the serious buyers out there are much like me, retired with a tidy (for now) play money account. My big hope is that there is enough new blood coming into the sport.
Great thoughts!! Great thread!!
Let’s all talk this one..
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I have had folks ask me for my advise when looking at guns to buy, on sites such as TOW's. It is my observation that there are a lot of very good buys on TOW's site, ie: rifles that are well built from great components, for what I consider reasonable money. I may have my head in the sand, or somewhere less appealing, but it boggles my mind to think that someone has spent good money buying up a set of parts, and then added his time to those and still is asking ridiculously low prices. I have never nor will ever make a living at this trade, so am not concerned about what the "market will bear". But I see good value in a lot of those rifles.
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I agree with Wayne. People can ask whatever they want, but it is the selling price that tells the story. At my age I have way more rifles than I can shoot or hunt with. So I have restricted myself to selective shopping for used, deals, and spec rifles. The hunt is often as much fun as the buying. The clock is ticking so no more ordering and waiting. Possibly some of the "overpriced" rifles on GB are resellers(not builders) trying to make a buck. When you see a seller with 400 deals, he isn't a builder. He got the gun from a walk-in seller, an estate sale, auction, or widow.
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There is a tremendous glut on the market right now as several collectors are liquidating some very large high end collections. That has brought the price on even very nice custom guns from big name makers way down. I have seen my friends buy some really nice guns in the past couple years for 1/2 price or less. Like a high end Jud Brennon for $6400. I have found in my own work that anything at or near 4K is a hard sell these days, no matter how well executed or how much decoration is on it. If I could just make only poor boys and keep a good mess of them in stock I could sell them all quick at $2000
Much of the pricing on $1000 guns going for $3500 is wishful thinking. Many of those $1000 guns aren't even worth the price of parts, but many times somebody will buy them because they don't know what they are looking at and can't tell a good gun from bad.
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I noticed the same thing,Bob.Been waiting for the glut to start,it has.But just like you,seeing a lot these $3,000 dollar guns in the last few weeks.Either they don't want to sell them or they are looking for gupp'ys.I myself am looking for a $3,000 gun for $1,000 LOL!
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Interesting topic but in my opinion. Their is a big difference in who pays the big dollar.. You have the true collector's who are after a certain maker an their willing to pay for it when the time comes or a certain antique. Sometimes after a long search.
Then their are the one's who want a quality firearm at a reasonable price for their pocket book. That's where Mike is correct at the $1500 to $2000 price range.
I have been buying all types of firearms for 50 plus years. Very careful how I shell out the cash for each one. The market as we all know fluctuates all the time. What was worth $10 k a few years ago might not bring $ 4 k now. It just depends always on how bad the buyer wants it. Me I've never wanted anything that bad that I'm willing to lose a lot of money on. Jack Duprey calls me frugal...lol. Oldtravler
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Interesting topic but in my opinion. Their is a big difference in who pays the big dollar.. You have the true collector's who are after a certain maker an their willing to pay for it when the time comes or a certain antique. Sometimes after a long search.
Then their are the one's who want a quality firearm at a reasonable price for their pocket book. That's where Mike is correct at the $1500 to $2000 price range.
I have been buying all types of firearms for 50 plus years. Very careful how I shell out the cash for each one. The market as we all know fluctuates all the time. What was worth $10 k a few years ago might not bring $ 4 k now. It just depends always on how bad the buyer wants it. Me I've never wanted anything that bad that I'm willing to lose a lot of money on. Jack Duprey calls me frugal...lol. Oldtravler
2k’s my sweet spot too, though I have paid as much as $3500. No one’s ever accused me of being frugal, but I sure don’t have the britches for a 10k gun...
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Of course it all depends on how good your crystal ball is. My specialty is in a very similar gun market that is subject to the exact same fluctuations. At one point prices started going crazy and many buyers later regretted not going with it. High quality items will always be a worthwhile investment opportunity and the other category items are worth nothing at all.
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I know I'm new to the forum and an unknown, but I've been building these rifle's for 40 plus years. I have made and sold guns in the 3,000 to 4,000 range also. If I added up all my expenses and labor I probably didn't make minimum wage, but that was ok when I was a little younger, it was a labor of love. That's why I no longer make them to sell, only make them now for the grandkids. If anyone wants to spend 80 to 140 hrs. plus parts and sell them for 2,000 are so more power to you. Not me anymore, just my 2 cents worth. Barry
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This might be the thoughts of an old goober, but before I overpay for a firearm give some thought to the fact that our sport is run by people who have an average age of 65+/- if we don't find a way to attract new people to our beloved sport those $2500.00-$3000.00 rifles in ten years might be the $1000.00-$1500.00 pieces for sale.
Check out Bob's new video on You-tube Blackpowder T.V. Bob is a person who is going above the call of duty to promote our sport. Watch the videos, "like them" on You-tube, and subscribe. This is a great way to get people jacked up about our longrifles.
Be safe out there, and God bless
"Muskrat" Mike
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O.K., here’s where I probably will get put in time out. IMO, you couldn’t give one of the economically made longrifles of yesteryear away today. A modern muzzleloader without a swamped barrel, with cut rifleings, hand made or CNC’d lock, quality set triggers, investment cast hardware, and presentation grade wood, is just plain hard to get rid off. And, if it plain without multiple inlays, and relief carving, it still might be hard to peddle. Bottom line is we’re spoiled. We can’t bring ourselves to shoot a gun that isn’t fancy, or well balanced, or has some issues with triggers, or ignition. But, the vast majority of us started out with just such a gun, and probably don’t shoot as well today as we did with the unreliable crowbar with the plain stock. Of course we have all upgraded our arsenal over time, but we’ve become lazier too. Very few of us shoot as often as we did when we started out.
Hungry Horse
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No time out for that! No doubt our standards are very high and keep getting higher. Same everywhere. If we got into a new off the line 56 Chevy we’d think it was the worst piece of junk we’d ever driven. You got to roll the windows up and down with a handle for heaven’s sake! It’s got a carburetor!
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I agree with y'all. I'd add that in many things "collectable", there seems to be a bell curve in pricing.
Generally the high prices are paid for items someone wanted when they were growing up and couldn't afford it. I talked with a guy who restores high end cars like Ferraris and such. He has a backlog, and he says it is almost all black and gold mid-'70s Trans Ams. Guys who saw Smokey and the Bandit as kids, now have the money to buy one and have it restored.
Kids today don't know that movie, and one day the price will drop on those cars. Look at kids trading in grandpa's beautiful S&W .44 hand ejector target to get a Glock (no kidding, I saw that one).
I am pretty sure our hobby/business is shrinking in size. There are lots of nice guns from good makers that are coming out of closets, especially during this COVID 19 scare.
Wayne nailed it though. There is a sweet spot on price. The higher the price, the fewer the buyers. And at a high price, those buyers know exactly what they want.
That said, I love that rifle the early Lancaster "Schimmel" Allen Martin listed here. Gorgeous work, and I cannot believe someone traded it back in. Bob grabbed that one fast, and saved me heartache. Really nicely done guns will probably always have a market, though the price always comes down to a buyer and a seller.
God Bless, Marc
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Prices also depend on where you're selling them - geographically.
In AZ where I live, most people believe any muzzleloader should cost what a CVA should cost.
Most of my rifles are in the $2500 to $3000 range. Most are sent to the East Coast.
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There is another market that is also similar; Japanese swords.
Genuine Japanese swords used to be sky high. Chinese copies used to be cheap. And hardly anyone built them domestically.
Now, the bottom has fallen out of the genuine old Japanese sword market; Chinese copies have risen in price to be about what a genuine, high quality period piece is, and there are a metric $#@* ton of US makers, all trying to sell $5000 swords.
You used to be able to buy a $100 CVA or what not and everyone thought it was as good as an original.
Now, the cheapest kit is $300, while high quality parts kits are in the $500-600, which is better than the price of a new Traditions.
With the amount of quality parts kits available, plus the incredibly detailed instructions available on the internet, nearly anyone who has the ability to work with their hands can become a "maker".
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Actually, high quality parts kits go for over $1000. Many of them have been turned into $500 guns.
Just like everything in this life, .... you get what you pay for.
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There is another market that is also similar; Japanese swords.
Genuine Japanese swords used to be sky high. Chinese copies used to be cheap. And hardly anyone built them domestically.
Now, the bottom has fallen out of the genuine old Japanese sword market; Chinese copies have risen in price to be about what a genuine, high quality period piece is, and there are a metric $#@* ton of US makers, all trying to sell $5000 swords.
You used to be able to buy a $100 CVA or what not and everyone thought it was as good as an original.
Now, the cheapest kit is $300, while high quality parts kits are in the $500-600, which is better than the price of a new Traditions.
With the amount of quality parts kits available, plus the incredibly detailed instructions available on the internet, nearly anyone who has the ability to work with their hands can become a "maker".
Hey Luverne, Smallpatch is right. Check out Jim Chambers Flintlocks and Kibler's Longrifles. For their $1000 kits you will get the same parts a 3.5kUSD Allen Martin, Mike Brooks, and many others will give you. The other 2500 USD is up to you... which you, or I, can't do. All you can hope for your first few is to make it a $1500 gun instead of a $500 one.
But, great point nonetheless....
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Hey Luverne, Smallpatch is right. Check out Jim Chambers Flintlocks and Kibler's Longrifles. For their $1000 kits you will get the same parts a 3.5kUSD Allen Martin, Mike Brooks, and many others will give you. The other 2500 USD is up to you... which you, or I, can't do. All you can hope for your first few is to make it a $1500 gun instead of a $500 one.
But, great point nonetheless....
With the caveat that I am just starting out, and doing research on the subject:
My basic assumption is that someone does the research, buys the correct parts, and builds the stock from a plank.
My jefro math puts me at $500-600, and that's a pretty plain rifle.
Compared to this: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101580776?pid=212245
Kibler and Chambers keep you from doing all the research, and add a bunch of labor doing the tricky stuff, according to everything I read.
I'd love to do a Kibler kit for my next build; God willing and the creek don't rise; as a compare and contrast to the Jack Garner kit I'm starting as soon as that brown truck shows up at my door. ;)
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Interesting but what I see missing in this thread is this. When you pay out say $2-3 k for a custom gun. YOU are PAYING for that persons knowledge an expertise..... Their are several on this site that should be far more recognized than what they are..! Oldtravler
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No time out for that! No doubt our standards are very high and keep getting higher. Same everywhere. If we got into a new off the line 56 Chevy we’d think it was the worst piece of junk we’d ever driven. You got to roll the windows up and down with a handle for heaven’s sake! It’s got a carburetor!
I like the hand cranked widows but I wouldn't have anything with a carburetor again.
going to muzzle loaders,the guns we regarded so highly in past years wouldn't get en
honorable mention today.
Bob Roller
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I have two old vehicles with hand crank windows and 4 barrel carburetors, by choice.
As one of a few builders on here currently with a gun priced over $3k, I feel like some of this is targeted at me. I guess some people don't appreciate the experience and time and effort that goes into creating not only a functional firearm but a piece of artwork that fits into a historical timeframe. I think everybodies price is negotiable, but you shouldn't expect a trained artisan to give away what they know to be fine hand crafted work.
Go buy an assembled kit for under $1500 and hope, I said HOPE, it fits you. If not, find a custom builder who can fit you and give you just what you want and like, and agree to pay his price. Nuff said.
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I hear what you're saying Mike Brooks. I've sort of been wondering how the high end market is holding out. I'm much more detached from it these days with the kit business, but I've gotten the feeling it's taken a bit of a hit in recent years. Any thoughts from others?
Jim
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No time out for that! No doubt our standards are very high and keep getting higher. Same everywhere. If we got into a new off the line 56 Chevy we’d think it was the worst piece of junk we’d ever driven. You got to roll the windows up and down with a handle for heaven’s sake! It’s got a carburetor!
I like the hand cranked widows but I wouldn't have anything with a carburetor again.
going to muzzle loaders,the guns we regarded so highly in past years wouldn't get en
honorable mention today.
Bob Roller
I been looking for a good hand cranked Widow. ;D
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I have two old vehicles with hand crank windows and 4 barrel carburetors, by choice.
As one of a few builders on here currently with a gun priced over $3k, I feel like some of this is targeted at me. I guess some people don't appreciate the experience and time and effort that goes into creating not only a functional firearm but a piece of artwork that fits into a historical timeframe. I think everybodies price is negotiable, but you shouldn't expect a trained artisan to give away what they know to be fine hand crafted work.
Go buy an assembled kit for under $1500 and hope, I said HOPE, it fits you. If not, find a custom builder who can fit you and give you just what you want and like, and agree to pay his price. Nuff said.
My goal would be to make as much per hour as the plumber that comes out to unplug your toilet. Although I get close to 50% if I work real fast I'll never make that pay grade. ::)
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No time out for that! No doubt our standards are very high and keep getting higher. Same everywhere. If we got into a new off the line 56 Chevy we’d think it was the worst piece of junk we’d ever driven. You got to roll the windows up and down with a handle for heaven’s sake! It’s got a carburetor!
I like the hand cranked widows but I wouldn't have anything with a carburetor again.
going to muzzle loaders,the guns we regarded so highly in past years wouldn't get en
honorable mention today.
Bob Roller
I been looking for a good hand cranked Widow. ;D
Them'd be right handy...
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I hear what you're saying Mike Brooks. I've sort of been wondering how the high end market is holding out. I'm much more detached from it these days with the kit business, but I've gotten the feeling it's taken a bit of a hit in recent years. Any thoughts from others?
Jim
The upper end of any market is just THAT,the upper end.That small group that ignores cost
and the classic car market is proof of that.Ferrari,Facel-Vega,Bugatti and Duesenberg.
This market completely ignores the mass market and does its own thing regardless of
economic conditions as does any other areas of interest like ours or coin and stamp collectors.
Willing sellers +willing buyers,no more,no less.
Bob Roller
*fixed missing stop quote bracket--Dennis-*
'
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Mike, I have no clue what a plumber makes, I unplug & repair my own pipes here. But my car dealer/mechanic gets $175 hr.! TOOOO much! The guy that tunes my furnace/A/C & heat pump each year gets at least $75/hr. Lets see now $75 x 100 hrs. = NO, no...I can't ask that much labor cost!
Back to being a struggling artist. LOL
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Mike, I have no clue what a plumber makes, I unplug & repair my own pipes here. But my car dealer/mechanic gets $175 hr.! TOOOO much! The guy that tunes my furnace/A/C & heat pump each year gets at least $75/hr. Lets see now $75 x 100 hrs. = NO, no...I can't ask that much labor cost!
Back to being a struggling artist. LOL
You certainly can ask that much for labor. Actually getting it may be tough. But if your work is good enough, you will get it. There are people out there looking for the very best and don't much care about price.
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I’m lucky that I have a fairly strong affinity for the common and a very strong dislike of the popular.... so it’s shoulder-britches, old trucks, white t-shirts, and Schimmel long guns for me. Save money on the first three so I can spend it one the last..
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Well I'm one of those guys that has the factory made rifles at home, but that's what I could afford at the time. I'm most assuredly not going to offer those for sale here. But what I am doing on this site is learning. Learning about the areas of my leatherwork that need work. And learning what makes a quality muzzleloading forearm. While my next purchase of a firearm won't be in that $2500 and up range, it may very well be in the $1000 to $1500 range. And very hopefully I can get into that upper range soon. Just gotta save my pennies.
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Well I'm one of those guys that has the factory made rifles at home, but that's what I could afford at the time. I'm most assuredly not going to offer those for sale here. But what I am doing on this site is learning. Learning about the areas of my leatherwork that need work. And learning what makes a quality muzzleloading forearm. While my next purchase of a firearm won't be in that $2500 and up range, it may very well be in the $1000 to $1500 range. And very hopefully I can get into that upper range soon. Just gotta save my pennies.
I have a few myself. If you put them up for sale, post them here. Lots of new guys showing up lately and if that’s what it takes to get them making smoke while they learn and/or save their pennies, here is better than there, I say.
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Some of the factory made military rifles are OK and if I were going to hunt
with a muzzle loader that would strong construction,easy loading and a heavy
bullet.
Hand cranked car windows should be an option even in very high dollar cars
but they all seem to be very high dollar now thanks to deteriorating currency.
Bob Roller
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Some of the factory made military rifles are OK and if I were going to hunt
with a muzzle loader that would strong construction,easy loading and a heavy
bullet.
Hand cranked car windows should be an option even in very high dollar cars
but they all seem to be very high dollar now thanks to deteriorating currency.
Bob Roller
50% of my fleet have hand cranked windows. They also have the old vent wings for fresh air and no air-conditioning.
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I do a lot of teaching and introducing of muzzle loading rifles to young folks, so I try and keep them for that purpose really.
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I do a lot of teaching and introducing of muzzle loading rifles to young folks, so I try and keep them for that purpose really.
That’s great Bull. We need to get the young into this or our fine rifles will end up being bought for a few hundred bucks by interior decorators to be hung over fireplaces in Americana Rustic Livingrooms....
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I do a lot of teaching and introducing of muzzle loading rifles to young folks, so I try and keep them for that purpose really.
That’s great Bull. We need to get the young into this or our fine rifles will end up being bought for a few hundred bucks by interior decorators to be hung over fireplaces in Americana Rustic Livingrooms....
To the point, Bob, but it still hurts to hear it! :D
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I do a lot of teaching and introducing of muzzle loading rifles to young folks, so I try and keep them for that purpose really.
That’s great Bull. We need to get the young into this or our fine rifles will end up being bought for a few hundred bucks by interior decorators to be hung over fireplaces in Americana Rustic Livingrooms....
I was a wooden boat builder back in the '90s, and each and every one of the boats that I sold ended up this way.
:(
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I've given away things I could have sold and forgiven loans to younger people for years. The only thing I ask is that they help someone else one day.
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Amazing, we went from crazy high prices to giving them away! LOL
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Amazing, we went from crazy high prices to giving them away! LOL
Amen Tom, some of the crazy high prices are probably considered to be giving them away depending on who you ask! ;)
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If you want to make money building firearms its "lathe guns" with plastic stocks. Easy to build and people will pay big bucks for the right stuff and they sell fast.
This from some I know who make both custom BPCRs (expensive to make, sit on the rack a long time) and "lathe guns" (cheaper to make, retail as high or close to it and sell fast). People that buy MLs are, for the most part, notoriously cheap and always have been.
So most people making MLs get paid much less than the work is actually worth especially if much of the hardware is made in shop.
Dan
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If a builder and a buyer agree on a price for a custom gun, then both are, in theory, happy. However, if a builder builds a spec(rack) gun, then the price is whatever a willing buyer will offer and the seller will accept. Aftermarket(used items) prices are negotiable.
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I have two old vehicles with hand crank windows and 4 barrel carburetors, by choice.
As one of a few builders on here currently with a gun priced over $3k, I feel like some of this is targeted at me. I guess some people don't appreciate the experience and time and effort that goes into creating not only a functional firearm but a piece of artwork that fits into a historical timeframe. I think everybodies price is negotiable, but you shouldn't expect a trained artisan to give away what they know to be fine hand crafted work.
Go buy an assembled kit for under $1500 and hope, I said HOPE, it fits you. If not, find a custom builder who can fit you and give you just what you want and like, and agree to pay his price. Nuff said.
My goal would be to make as much per hour as the plumber that comes out to unplug your toilet. Although I get close to 50% if I work real fast I'll never make that pay grade. ::)
Speaking purely from the plumber's point of view. The owner of the plumbing company makes out quite well, but the poor sap who shows up at your door to do the dirty work doesn't do near as well. If I work real fast, I just end up with s*#t on me ::)
I've tried my luck at gun building and understand what is involved with building a quality rifle. Good quality is expensive and I am willing to pay for a quality flintlock. No matter how hard I try, I won't be able to quit my job as a plumber to be a builder. I'd starve if I had to rely on my building skills.
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If a builder and a buyer agree on a price for a custom gun, then both are, in theory, happy. However, if a builder builds a spec(rack) gun, then the price is whatever a willing buyer will offer and the seller will accept. Aftermarket(used items) prices are negotiable.
Exactly. That's how it went down when you bought the "Free Born" rifle from me.
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If a builder and a buyer agree on a price for a custom gun, then both are, in theory, happy. However, if a builder builds a spec(rack) gun, then the price is whatever a willing buyer will offer and the seller will accept. Aftermarket(used items) prices are negotiable.
Exactly. That's how it went down when you bought the "Free Born" rifle from me.
You are quite right. The price was never the issue.
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I’ve been a member here for a while. I never post, just read, learn, and admire. I’m currently in line for a specific build of Southern influenced longrifle. I’m certainly not a topend buyer but I’m ready to pay for the quality that a member/builder here can produce.
Also, my son and grandson truly enjoy shooting the two Plains style rifles that I have. I don’t think the passion for these rifles and smoothebores will ever die.
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It might be helpful if you will specify what type of Southern gun that you're looking for. Early Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, and many more, there's a pretty wide berth for Southern guns. You'll find what you're looking for with the help of the members here! Good luck with your quest.
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The rifle that I covet is the Joseph Bogle Rifle that is featured in the virtual museum under Tennessee Rifles. I have already contracted with a builder from this site, but I thank you for your response.
Didn’t mean to hijack.
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Absolutely great choice!!
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Thank you, I think it is magnificent. It took quite a few years of reading and looking to decide.
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I guess reality is striking home with me. Back in the eighties I had several of the top builders make rifles for me—Jud Brennan, Jerry Kirkland, Bob Harn, etc. While I never expected them to be investments I thought the market would always pay for top quality craftsmanship. But time and changing preferences are proving me wrong. Buyers just don’t seem willing to pay for the highest quality, unique craftsmanship that requires years or decades of study and perfecting of hand skills. I think the kits available today have supplanted to a large extent the scratch built gun as a mainstay of the hobby. For instance, how many today are demanding a hand forged lock that has perfect geometry and sparks great when they can get a cnc lock today that functions just as well In all respects (though it will never have the “soul” of the handmade one). Guess I can’t blame the market. We live in changing times.
I’m seeing the same trend in the vintage side by side shotgun market. All are unique, hand built breechloaders the quality and craftsmanship we will never see again. But today’s buyers couldn’t care less. They just want something that looks similar and goes “bang”. As a result, the market has plummeted to the point I’ll probably just give most of them away. Oh well.....it was fun!
Here is my Jerry Kirkland copy of a great John Armstrong rifle (Emmitsburg school) with a little piggie that recently got in the way of my roundball. Absolute perfection in construction and interpretation of Armstrong’s work. Phenomenal stick of sugar maple. No kit can ever come close to duplicating this level of craftsmanship but the market doesn’t care.
(https://i.ibb.co/7VXDLZ8/220284-E7-FD7-C-4-FAA-BBA2-740-B9-E256-EB4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CvzyDYN)
Cheek side of the Armstrong. The pie crust carving was a typical style on his finer rifles. And he often inlayed in coin silver the oval on the cheek piece, engraved with the Federal Eagle holding an olive branch and arrows. Tap or click on the photo to see a much clearer picture of the carving.
(https://i.ibb.co/stqTbyq/7198-A22-C-1-A9-B-4-A7-E-9-FCE-6-DDAECB999-C9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SJBk5RB)
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Flintsteel: that is truly a beautifully made rifle and you are lucky to be the current curator. It is my observation that there will always be a market for that kind of workmanship. But you are unlikely to find a buyer at a flea market. Most folks, as you have said, are tire kickers, and want you to lower your price. The issue then isn't whether a buyer at the high end exists,...it's finding them! There are many scratch builders on this site that regularly sell their best quality work for what it is worth. These same builders can take a "kit gun" and turn it into something that resembles your Armstrong (Kirkland) rifle. I myself confess to doing that when a client wants a nice carved, engraved, and inlaid rifle for less than a scratch built rifle costs. This creates two happy people, ie: I the builder and he (she) the client. I now build only for myself, and though I have a fairly long list of builds that I intend to complete before I 'go to my reward', I also intend to build Kibler's Classsic Longrifle. I'm looking forward to it too.
My children and good wife should she outlive me, will have to deal with my collection though...I'm not in a hurry to part with anything in my stable...for any money.
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Taylor, thanks for the compliment of Kirklin’s work. He was good, in fact very good back in the eighties. I have been incredibly fortunate and blessed to have been able to commission these pieces back then. And I appreciate skilled, creative craftsmanship! I have feebly attempted to build flinters myself and the poor results only made me admire those other craftsmen more. No way could I imagine anyone trying to make a living wage doing that work! The Brennan’s I own reflect his sheer genius of creativity that is so rare. And the Harn I now own reminds me of the great sense of humor he had. But that’s another story.
PS: I’m not a newby to this site. I was one of the original posters when this board began then drifted away as my interests changed. Now I see I’m a beginner again. Oh well, at my age anything new is a real treat! Started shooting muzzleloaders in ‘57 when all we had were originals. Those were the days.....
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flintsteel- your comment about starting shooting originals, reminded me of this picture, taken in Kalsipel Montana in the mid 50's, by my late
best friend Lester H.Hawkes. Most of the 'lads' 'n gal ( Irene Hawkes) are holding original rifles.
(https://i.ibb.co/JqK1WYt/020-HAWKES-PHOTOS-020-1950-s.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gd32b09)
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What a great photos, Daryl. And great memories. We were about the same down here in Texas. Real odd balls but we had a lot of fun! Oh, that was when we paid a dollar a pound for DuPont black powder that came in those oval screw top cans. Remember them? Nicest original longrifle I’ve ever owned was a full stocked Ohio style percussion gun with a beautiful piece of maple, nine silver inlays, and a little carving. Darn good condition. Paid the ridiculously high price of $65.00 for it.......
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Paid the ridiculously high price of $65.00 for it.......
Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, no matter what the price is. :D Yes, I remember the oval Dupont powder cans
but only saw one or two in the possession of Les. I met him in '72. He passed in '95.
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Daryl, That is a heck of a framing job centering that photo. :-D Are you and Taylor in the photo?
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Looking at Daryl's photo brings us to today. Every summer the Association of Ohio Longrifle Collectors hold a shoot for original Ohio rifles. Originals are desired but all comers are welcome. We feel that, considering condition, these old timers should be allowed to speak to us again.