AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: GANGGREEN on September 19, 2020, 04:07:13 PM
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I found this hard maple on my property. Do those who would know think that it might be a curly maple? I understand that they're sometimes more curly at the base than in the log itself, but I'm hopeful.
(https://i.ibb.co/6rddKTN/IMG-20200918-105134706.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pbmmHMn)
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Check higher in the trunk. Skin some bark off of it in a spot and you should be able to tell.
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The base looks curly to me. Would be a good candidate to dig out.
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My plan is to go back this week with a small hatchet and hack off a small piece at shoulder or head height.
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Just peel off some bark - no need to hack up the tree.
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Yes, skinning the bark was my intention. Hack was probably an unfortunate word.
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Euell Gibbons says" eat a beaver and save a pine tree". Just go buy a stock, Allen Martin has a lot of wood for sale.
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As far as I know trees do regenerate themselves. In many, if not most cases timber operations improve wildlife habitat, so I have no problem cutting down a tree that I'm going to make use of. In this case the tree is on my property and I think it would be neat to build a rifle from said tree. For what it's worth, I have quite a bit of curly maple already dried and on hand in my shop. as I said, would love to make crafts and maybe a rifle or two from a tree that grew on my farm.
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Should make a lot of nice wood.
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Well, we hope so. It's certainly not a veneer quality tree and it's not terribly large. I'll be happy if I can get a few stock blanks out of it and a bunch of other craft wood for picture frames, turkey calls, small decorative boxes and the like.
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I have come across several that appear to have curl at the base but it petered out quickly as you went up, and they were just straight maple with some growth induced figure at the very base. So be prepared to temper your enthusiasm on this tree until you check it. Some do show it at the base and some don’t.
Other experienced wood cutters have stated that they often find curly maple “after cutting” that show little or no signs on the outside of being curly. I have heard there is no reliable way to tell just from the outside bark alone. But the obvious pattern on the base bark is one place to start. Also, if you find one curly tree, there may be others in the nearby vicinity, as the genetics got passed on from the original parent tree.
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The curliest, “flamed” maple I ever saw came from a large tree in an Ohio yard. Even the small branches had flame figure.
You might check the branches also.
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I went and checked today and unfortunately I'm afraid that I struck out with this tree. I think I did find another very large tree that apparently has some figure, but it's just such a behemoth that I'm not certain I even want to mess with it. I had a 60-in tape and it didn't go halfway around the diameter of the trunk.
(https://i.ibb.co/XxyWjRW/IMG-20200920-133624141.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d4bfjYf)
(https://i.ibb.co/2ZG3xsw/IMG-20200920-133453036.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8Y1gqdJ)
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I did skin the bark of this big tree and it appeared to have figure up higher as well. I have over a hundred acres and an awful lot of maples on my property. I'm sure there's some curly lumber out there somewhere.
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How many years ago did that "skinning" take place?
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Euell Gibbons says" eat a beaver and save a pine tree". Just go buy a stock, Allen Martin has a lot of wood for sale.
+1
Leave it to the experts and give Allen some business, OP. He’ll set you up with a proper maple blank.
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Allen sells beautiful blanks but that's not what this is about. I have a woodshop full of nice curly maple gun blanks and I don't NEED one or more right now. I'd love to have a gun that was built with a stock from a tree that grew on my farm though. I have several pieces of beautiful furniture in my house from lumber that was harvested on the farm and have picture frames throughout the house. Why in God's name would I want to spend real money on gun blanks that I don't need, particularly when I have a ready supply on hand? I do appreciate the advice to "leave it to the experts" though, I've often wished I knew someone that was really expert at sizing up a tree and guessing what was hidden under the bark.
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Gang Green
Ignore the naysayers...I have several pieces of furniture(including the table I eat at daily)in my house and have built a couple of guns from wood I harvested and dried although not from my property.Theres a certain satisfaction from harvesting your own material...Lot's to learn as well ;D ;D.....I say go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mitch
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I have beautiful stuff here and couldn't be more happy given that it was made from timber harvested on the farm. Off the top of my head, there's a Chestnut oak dresser, a cherry dresser, cherry sleigh bed, a cherry barrister's bookcase, an American chestnut hoosier, a chestnut dining room table, a chestnut coffee table, two chestnut blanket chests (they were built by my uncle for my sons), a cherry desk that I'm sitting at now and a bunch of various picture frames, decorative boxes, turkey calls and what not. It's much cooler knowing that the trees spent their lives making wood HERE.
Gang Green
Ignore the naysayers...I have several pieces of furniture(including the table I eat at daily)in my house and have built a couple of guns from wood I harvested and dried although not from my property.Theres a certain satisfaction from harvesting your own material...Lot's to learn as well ;D ;D.....I say go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mitch
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The curliest, “flamed” maple I ever saw came from a large tree in an Ohio yard. Even the small branches had flame figure.
You might check the branches also.
I don't think I ever saw a Pine cut by a Beaver.
Tim C.
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If I had a 100 acres of hardwood forest, I would never buy wood for any project from any one.
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Gibbons must have meant the beaver was going to flood out the pines and kill them, Tim. I don’t I’ve ever seen them cut one either.
Bob
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Hmmm. A beaver in my pond last year seemed to prefer pine. He didn't gnaw on any big ones, but he cut dozens and dozens of small ones and dragged them to his larder.
I got lucky a few years back when I had a guy on an excavator doing some work on my property.
Their was a maple leaning over and I asked him to get it out so I could cut it for firewood. His bucket skipped off the trunk and I could see curl under the bark. I did get some lumber and blanks out of it but lost most to boring insects.
The stump is growing back and I wonder if the new growth will be as curly as the old tree was. I doubt if I'll live long enough to find out.
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I'm very much a hobby woodworker. I'm retired recently, so I have more time and hope to get better at it and to make more projects in the coming months and years. There are species that I simply don't on the have on the property which I enjoy working with (Butternut, Black walnut, etc.), but for the most part, I agree with you. For the record, I own over 100 acres, but only about 70 of that is timbered and it's not all hardwood, although it's mostly hardwood northern forest.
I just discussed the possibility of having a guy with a smaller sawmill bring it to the property to mill several logs for me soon. I'll probably do a Cherry (still have some Cherry from a tree I cut a few years ago), a Hickory, an Ash (it's all going to die anyway) at least one Maple (I have hard and soft maple and would love to find one with a lot of character) and possibly something else, I'll have to think about it. I have a large American elm on the property and I presume it's going to die on me at some point, but I understand that it can twist and be pretty hard to work when it dries. I'll also need to decide whether to let all of the lumber air dry or take it to someone with a kiln (the sawmill guy doesn't have one).
If I had a 100 acres of hardwood forest, I would never buy wood for any project from any one.
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Gang,
that white maple you posted a picture of has lots of beautiful figured wood in the base, for sure. There is probably some core rot where that dimple in the bark on the left side of the tree shows. The challenge is to fell it with cuts that are low enough to allow you to make use of the root flare. If the tree circumference is two times a 60 inch tape then the circumference is 120 inches and the diameter s close to 40 inches. That's a BIG tree!
I agree with Tallbear. There is a special connection with anything made from lumber that you made from a tree you harvested. I have furniture that started as trees that were harvested from my own land as well as trees that were victim of hurricanes. For maple I would urge you to opt for kiln drying by some one who specializes in hardwoods and can adjust the drying schedule for the 10/4 slab stock you would cut. Also, for sawing, make the first cuts quarter-sawn planks. You will be glad you did.
Best Regards,
JMC
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Thanks for the info. As I said, I really wish I had someone with the equipment and experience to help me find the best trees to harvest and the knowledge to do it correctly. The good news is that the giant maple is right on a woods road and would be easy to get to with a tractor, loader, etc..
Gang,
that white maple you posted a picture of has lots of beautiful figured wood in the base, for sure. There is probably some core rot where that dimple in the bark on the left side of the tree shows. The challenge is to fell it with cuts that are low enough to allow you to make use of the root flare. If the tree circumference is two times a 60 inch tape then the circumference is 120 inches and the diameter s close to 40 inches. That's a BIG tree!
I agree with Tallbear. There is a special connection with anything made from lumber that you made from a tree you harvested. I have furniture that started as trees that were harvested from my own land as well as trees that were victim of hurricanes. For maple I would urge you to opt for kiln drying by some one who specializes in hardwoods and can adjust the drying schedule for the 10/4 slab stock you would cut. Also, for sawing, make the first cuts quarter-sawn planks. You will be glad you did.
Best Regards,
JMC
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It's a joke, don't take the world serious.( Euell Gibbons according to Wikipedia - A 1974 television commercial for Post Grape-Nuts cereal featured Gibbons asking viewers "Ever eat a pine tree? Many parts are edible." While he recommended eating Grape Nuts over eating pine trees (Grape Nuts' taste "reminds me of wild hickory nuts"), the quote caught the public's imagination and fueled his celebrity status.) I can't tell you about the beaver. :)
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Harvesting my own wood really fuels my enthusiasm for woodworking. It is the "treasure hunt" adventure that adds so much to the process. I have harvested a lot of large turning blanks, and figured maple is especially my favorite, even with all the walnut or cherry I could want. But I have found in general, that evidence of figure is typically telegraphed in the bark. But I sure would like to talk to a professional who really knows his stuff, from the standing tree to the mill. One observation of those huge maples along the road- they often are hollow at that stage, and often have random, naturally culled lower branches in the bottom section, that do not occur in the deep woods where the trees are stretching for the sunlight. And in my woods, those pesky maple sap spouts riddle the nicest trees! (Looks cool in the side of a bowl, but not through a gunstock) Good luck in your search. If you find a workable tree, but with limited figure higher up, every inch of soil you can dig down, including for chainsaw access, is really helpful. A sharp mattocks is helpful too.
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Thanks. So far my treasure was a very large (20-21" DBH) American chestnut that lived on my property and eventually succumbed to the blight. I made good use of the lumber, but I'm always on the lookout for interesting wood, particularly figured maple.
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I have harvested several trees from my farm and there is a certain satisfaction with knowing that you cut it, and turn it into something.
My youngest son, if he ever gets motivated, has all the boards cut for a kitchen table and benches sitting in the shop. He helped me harvest and cut up that tree. Since Covid has him living and working out of our house, the boards are taking up less space then a completed table and benches in my work shop, so I am not complaining.
Fleener
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This is why I generally don't feel the need to purchase stock wood at the moment. I have enough really nice curly maple to accommodate my personal builds for quite a few years, but it doesn't mean that I wouldn't really love to find a curly maple tree like this on my property. I have a small stockpile of blanks/wood that I keep for myself, but I have a friend who wanted to try a Kibler build. I suggested that I'd save him some money on a premium upgrade and still give him a nice piece of wood (I'm selling it to him cheaply enough that he'll save a lot of money). I think I accomplished that and that he'll owe me for this (no idea if he realizes how nice this wood is). I'm hopeful that this blank is large enough for me to also get a stock blank out of it in addition to his Kibler build. Just planed it today to show him what he'd be getting.
(https://i.ibb.co/dLWPgMm/Bill-s-rifle.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CM1b28P)
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Gang,
If that tree were in my property I would would set my chainsaw up with a 48 inch bar and chain and get to work. The biggest challenge is avoiding felling checks. These are caused when a tree hits the ground with a thud and the impact causes a check (split) to run up the log where the tree was forced to flex . If the tree has a well branched crown those branches might cushion the fall. In the old days the loggers would cut small trees and fell them across the drop line for the big tree to cushion the impact. As soon as the log hits the ground seal the butt end with a good quality timber sealer. I get mine from Highland Tool.
I would cut the bottom off at 7 ft. A 40 inch diameter log cut 7 feet long of green white maple will run approximately 61 ft3 and at 55 lbs/ft3 for green wood the log will weigh about 3,400 lbs. That's a heavy log! Since I don't have a machine that strong I would have to process the log where it fell. I would take a marker and draw a line across the butt end from side to side across the widest width of the log. Nail a 2x4 along the side of the log starting with the line on the butt and extending to the center of the cut end. Roll the log over and repeat with the other side. (Rolling a 3000 lb. log over with a crowbar and ropes is NOT a simple/easy task! Don't ask how I learned that.) Now you have ripping guides on each side of the log. Start at the butt end and rip the log with your long-barred chainsaw using the 2x4s as a guide. If the chainsaw bar extends completely across the log it will ride along the 2x4 guides. Just take your time and stop to sharpen the chain whenever the chips start getting small. As you get most of the way through the log you will need a wood wedge to keep the kerf open. I find it easiest if I make this cut with the bar vertical. If you can get this cut done in one day you are better than I am!
Once you have completed the first rip slather the cut faces with linseed oil.
Now the halves weigh about 1,700 lbs each. Still too heavy to lift. The next step is to rip each half right down the center using your 2x4 guides the same way as before. As soon as a half is ripped slather the face with linseed oil. Now the quarters are about 850 lbs each. I can drag that with my green machine to where some one could set up a Wood Miser mill. The first rips at the mill should be parallel to the chainsaw cut faces. these will be your quartersawn slabs. Slab off one face, rotate log 90 degrees and slab off the next face. Rotate back 90 degrees and get a second almost quartersawn slab and repeat.
That's how I do it when I do it. It is four to five days of hard work to get that log to where it can be milled if you don't have access to heavy logging equipment and a knowledgeable operator.
Good Luck or have fun, which ever.
JMC
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That sounds like a glorious adventure. If you're anywhere nearby, I'll give you half of the wood for your equipment, expertise and labor (and of course I'll labor right along with you). ;) I'm in NC Pennsylvania in the event that anyone actually would wish to take me up on the offer and if you did show, I'd likely be able to offer some assorted other tree or trees in the bargain (at a 50/50 deal).
I guess my concern would be that the tree simply wasn't as nice as we had hoped and we ended up with some rot or some clear maple lumber which may not have been worth the trouble (although nice, hard maple is surely worth $3-4/board foot I would presume and plenty of guys do build rifles out of clear maple).
Gang,
If that tree were in my property I would would set my chainsaw up with a 48 inch bar and chain and get to work. The biggest challenge is avoiding felling checks. These are caused when a tree hits the ground with a thud and the impact causes a check (split) to run up the log where the tree was forced to flex . If the tree has a well branched crown those branches might cushion the fall. In the old days the loggers would cut small trees and fell them across the drop line for the big tree to cushion the impact. As soon as the log hits the ground seal the butt end with a good quality timber sealer. I get mine from Highland Tool.
I would cut the bottom off at 7 ft. A 40 inch diameter log cut 7 feet long of green white maple will run approximately 61 ft3 and at 55 lbs/ft3 for green wood the log will weigh about 3,400 lbs. That's a heavy log! Since I don't have a machine that strong I would have to process the log where it fell. I would take a marker and draw a line across the butt end from side to side across the widest width of the log. Nail a 2x4 along the side of the log starting with the line on the butt and extending to the center of the cut end. Roll the log over and repeat with the other side. (Rolling a 3000 lb. log over with a crowbar and ropes is NOT a simple/easy task! Don't ask how I learned that.) Now you have ripping guides on each side of the log. Start at the butt end and rip the log with your long-barred chainsaw using the 2x4s as a guide. If the chainsaw bar extends completely across the log it will ride along the 2x4 guides. Just take your time and stop to sharpen the chain whenever the chips start getting small. As you get most of the way through the log you will need a wood wedge to keep the kerf open. I find it easiest if I make this cut with the bar vertical. If you can get this cut done in one day you are better than I am!
Once you have completed the first rip slather the cut faces with linseed oil.
Now the halves weigh about 1,700 lbs each. Still too heavy to lift. The next step is to rip each half right down the center using your 2x4 guides the same way as before. As soon as a half is ripped slather the face with linseed oil. Now the quarters are about 850 lbs each. I can drag that with my green machine to where some one could set up a Wood Miser mill. The first rips at the mill should be parallel to the chainsaw cut faces. these will be your quartersawn slabs. Slab off one face, rotate log 90 degrees and slab off the next face. Rotate back 90 degrees and get a second almost quartersawn slab and repeat.
That's how I do it when I do it. It is four to five days of hard work to get that log to where it can be milled if you don't have access to heavy logging equipment and a knowledgeable operator.
Good Luck or have fun, which ever.
JMC
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And, for what it's worth, I have another slightly less impressive tree on the other side of my property that I've always presumed was curly. It's right along the edge of what used to be a pasture and it's grown a bit differently (larger spread, lower limbs, etc.), but it's still a nice tree and again, easy enough to get to with a tractor, 4 wheelers, etc..
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Be advised that some large trees along wood and pasture edges may have old fence wire grown into them. Or nails, staples, etc. So checking with a metal detector first is Usually a good idea.
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Be advised that some large trees along wood and pasture edges may have old fence wire grown into them. Or nails, staples, etc. So checking with a metal detector first is Usually a good idea.
Good Idea to throw out there!! I lost 3' of a nice walnut log, cuz the sawyer could see ( me to for that matter ) that there was what appeared to be a fold in that section
of the tree's bark.. he figured a fence wired had been wrapped around it!
Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan
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... I've often wished I knew someone that was really expert at sizing up a tree and guessing what was hidden under the bark.
That last tree looks awful from a sawyer's POV. Where is Sawfiler to confirm?
The thing about logs is you really don't know how much useable lumber is in them until they are cut. Trees that look perfect on the outside can have hollows in the middle. Trees that show problems on the outside, are often worse when opened up. Yes knots and holes create interesting grains, but inconsistent and possibly stressed or otherwise unsuitable. If you have contours on your land, go look on North faces and especially deep in in narrow valleys/ravines or thickest forest, this is where the trees grow tallest and straightest with less low limbs. Also slower which gives tighter grain structure.
I've had firewood buyers comment on how good my "hill country" firewood was over that taken from the flat land of the Barrens. It's the slower growth and harder life thing. Gives density.
I'm no expert but I've seen big trees yield disappointments when they hit the ground or when the saw hits that soft spot hidden inside. I've got a lot of maple and ash and walnut and cherry myself, and it'll be safe until it's blown down or I hire a sawyer and cut and mill some out.
Timber can be tricky to judge standing. There's just not much way around that.
also-the most wicked tight and consistent curl I've ever seen has been in such unsuitable woods and soft maple and boxelder.
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I have ALOT of very curly maple...unfortunately it's all two foot long and cut in wedges.
Kevin
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Gang,
Given half a chance, there will be folks that will tell you that what you want to do is hard, apt to fail, crazy or______. Remember that greatness cannot be achieved unless great obstacles are encountered.
If you are going to harvest that tree, white maple should be harvested in late December when the moisture content of the log is at a minimum. Before you start such an effort, about 6 to 7 long days of serious work, you need to read the log the best you can to cipher out, the best you can, that the wood inside is worth more than the annual sap/sugar harvest. Keep in mind that amateur/avocational timber harvesting is NOT a sure thing! I spent three weekends harvesting a cherry tree last year that turned out to have a bark inclusion 4 feet long right in the center of the plank I wanted for a project. I didn't find out about it until the first center-rip of the log. A second slab I cut from that tree exploded from a felling check. I blew a chain out because of a strand of barbed wire in the log. But..........I got some beautiful cherry slabs that I am turning into furniture. Its an adventure with no guarantees except for serious fatigue and expenses you didn't imagine.
Starting now I am spending most weekends at my place in eastern Columbia County, PA. PM me if you want to connect. I am old, obnoxious, and my "equipment" consists of a little JD 2025 with a tow chain. So you don't get much!
JMC
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I appreciate all of the input and advice. For what it's worth, these couple of trees are accessible and I do have a smallish (30HP) Kubota with bucket and a few shorter chains, so I can get logs out, at least the smaller ones. I don't have a suitable chainsaw for the big ones, although again, I can manage the more reasonable ones. I did have a well-known board member who probably knows curly maple better than most who offered to come around and take a look sometime, so maybe I'll actually be able to report some success at some point.
Gang,
Given half a chance, there will be folks that will tell you that what you want to do is hard, apt to fail, crazy or______. Remember that greatness cannot be achieved unless great obstacles are encountered.
If you are going to harvest that tree, white maple should be harvested in late December when the moisture content of the log is at a minimum. Before you start such an effort, about 6 to 7 long days of serious work, you need to read the log the best you can to cipher out, the best you can, that the wood inside is worth more than the annual sap/sugar harvest. Keep in mind that amateur/avocational timber harvesting is NOT a sure thing! I spent three weekends harvesting a cherry tree last year that turned out to have a bark inclusion 4 feet long right in the center of the plank I wanted for a project. I didn't find out about it until the first center-rip of the log. A second slab I cut from that tree exploded from a felling check. I blew a chain out because of a strand of barbed wire in the log. But..........I got some beautiful cherry slabs that I am turning into furniture. Its an adventure with no guarantees except for serious fatigue and expenses you didn't imagine.
Starting now I am spending most weekends at my place in eastern Columbia County, PA. PM me if you want to connect. I am old, obnoxious, and my "equipment" consists of a little JD 2025 with a tow chain. So you don't get much!
JMC
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Didn’t Eulle Gibbons pass away a few years back? I heard he was diagnosed with Dutch elm disease.
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Didn’t Eulle Gibbons pass away a few years back? I heard he was diagnosed with Dutch elm disease.
Euell Gibbons passed away in 1975 from a ruptured aortic aneurysm.