AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Ian Pratt on March 28, 2022, 04:38:50 AM
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A couple photos of one recently delivered. Done as an American composite gun with a mix of French and English parts, stocked in a style somewhere between trade guns of those same origins. Used a Rice .58 smooth barrel (think around 46") and one of Jim Kibler's locks - impressively fast for this style and size of lock.
(https://i.ibb.co/X8S2pyC/276130209-932413297469066-3621445323505297334-n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YZpR8DL)
(https://i.ibb.co/qJk7Tht/276086787-932413620802367-8414186477776076635-n.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5KBGbCN)
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Ian; i met the guy who bought that gun, sure a fine piece!
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That’s one of my favorites.
Bob
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Im not much on painted guns but I do like this one. Great work
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Looks very awesome to me, thanks for sharing
Hawkeye
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Impressive artwork but I would have to fight the urge to kill it with a shovel. :o
Just kidding nicely done!
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Fantastic work as always. Love the creativity. True artist and craftsman.
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Fantastic work Ian. Great gun, and then the added "outside the box" snake puts it over the top. Very impressive. It makes me want to go shoot it. God Bless, Marc
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That’s just plain ol’ cool. Great looking piece, Ian!! Best,
Ed
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Wish there were more than 2 pictures of this.
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Ian every time I see this gun on the different gun sites. It expresses me even more.. But ya should have kept it...
Oldtravler
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Love the snake and design, A One of a kind Beauty.
Tim
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It’s simultaneously one-of-a-kind and mundane (if mundane is quite the right word?) — I can’t recall seeing another gun quite like it and yet, it instantly feels right at home within what a gun like that “should” look like. Your ability to walk that line and make believable yet unique guns is truly remarkable.
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Magical!
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Gee that's just swell, Ian!!!!! 8) Five stars for certain. You are one creative guy!
Curtis
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Over the top COOL..!!!
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That gun is even better in person. Simply amazing. Shoulders very well too.
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Great looking smooth bore Ian. I was able to enlarge these photo's better and just noticed the painted design around the lock panel. Very nice accent to the gun.
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Now THAT is a pretty cool looking gun.
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Thanks a lot everybody!
Wish there were more than 2 pictures of this
John I didn't take too many, here are a couple of the other side. I did take some video of it that I still need to edit.
(https://i.ibb.co/J7T6R4T/fr-1671-size880-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ncydsvy)
(https://i.ibb.co/RjXZxQR/fr-1660-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LNTbL9V)
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Thanks a lot everybody!
Wish there were more than 2 pictures of this
John I didn't take too many, here are a couple of the other side. I did take some video of it that I still need to edit.
(https://i.ibb.co/J7T6R4T/fr-1671-size880-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ncydsvy)
(https://i.ibb.co/RjXZxQR/fr-1660-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LNTbL9V)
Thanks Ian, great looking piece. Looking forward to the video when you're done with the editing.
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That sure is nice. I like everything about it! The sideplate in particular looks fantastic. The additional photos really capture it well.
Jim
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Thanks for the extra photos. It just gets better the more I see. Outstanding work and wonderful finish.
Ken
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Coolest gun Ive seen in a while. I admire those of you that make a gun then “age” both the wood and metal, rounding corners, wearing handling areas and giving it that well worn but not abused look. Eric, Mike and You are really good at it. Did i say i Like it 😉 and my apologies if I forgot some other artists making guns of this caliber.
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Im not much on painted guns but I do like this one. Great work
I'm with Wattle! There's not many painted guns I like either, but this one is a total class act! :)
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This is a great feeling gun too, I had the pleasure of holding it and getting a good up close look at it while I was in Ohio at the class.
-Robert
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What can I say but nifty?
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Very cool looking piece! Was this one at your table in Lawrenceburg?
Tony
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Thanks everybody! Tony yes it's that same gun but I hadn't completed the finish work or made the pouch at that time. The gun' s owner is one of the " repeat offenders" at our longrifle building class and he picked it up in February.
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Ian, I have a side plate that was recovered from the bottom of the St. Marks River (south of Tallahassee) that looks just like that. I always thought it would look good on a project. Great job! James Levy
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Thank you James! Any chance you might share a photo of that side plate? It's always interesting to see different versions and variations in the engraving.
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Ian, yes, I'll get a picture taken. James Levy
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Ian , I love that gun!!!
Speaking of unusual sideplates, i guess? this is part of a sideplate. From near St. Ignace Michigan.
(https://i.ibb.co/kDjxzFY/bob.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
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A couple of side plate photos courtesy of James Levy - the one on the bottom is the recovered side plate he mentioned, the top two were cast from originals. Good stuff, thank you James !
(https://i.ibb.co/6gSKg79/trade-gun-sideplates.png) (https://ibb.co/J5TY5w6)
(https://i.ibb.co/v17kjdT/trade-gun-sideplates-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mJL4cy2)
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Thanks for sharing the pics.
Ken
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James Levy or Ian - do you know if the top two are being produced commercially? Or, were they one off castings?
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I too would be interested in the top two serpents.
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James we may have opened a can of serpents with those photos....
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Guys, I wish I had a definitive answer for your questions, but it was a long time ago. I'm pretty sure that I purchased the two top serpents from Jim White's basement store in Shoshone, WY in the 80's. I went by his place two or three times when I was hunting out there. As I remember, he had a full body mount of a buffalo in his house and a nice store/trading post in his basement and a fort in his yard. I doubt the castings were one-offs and were probably available back then. I don't know what his source was. I bought them for a number of reasons, but mainly because they were obviously molded from originals. James Levy
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Ah. Too good to be true but I was hoping. Thanks, Mr Levy
“ we may have opened a can of serpents “ 😁
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Here's a similar one I made for another gun and the same style of trade gun pipes also used on the black snake gun. If I can find the pictures later I'll post the tool I made to create those ribbed brass pipes, kind of a quick way to do it but it works well
(https://i.ibb.co/r3z9jWS/5-F958-C1-F-1925-4-C4-D-837-C-0-DF60-BE3-C05-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tzvRGdt)
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Ian, I’d love to see how you made the thimbles.
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Thanks James/Ian for getting my hopes up!
Cool stuff, thanks for posting.
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I made these punches thinking they'd save time over making something more along the lines of a top and bottom swage. If I thought I'd be making a lot of these trade gun pipes I'd have gone the extra mile, but really this works quite well.
I cleaned off the end of a a square bar of mild steel, layed out a pattern and chiseled / filed in the ridges and furrows.
(https://i.ibb.co/VCzDkPR/B95-FE287-5419-4-B8-A-B92-A-AECD3-CFF9-BCA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZgFKbk5)
(https://i.ibb.co/kDGXxDs/D0-D83-B94-FFA4-4-AA1-B48-C-C9-DF1-BB8-FAD7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wQd4RQF)
(https://i.ibb.co/R7q9XKH/44-D8-C7-C1-CB71-4398-B9-B5-98-AE31489-E7-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/52P6Q3c)
(https://i.ibb.co/3zXnX2b/D6687-B4-C-DC3-D-4978-B500-5-CC3-AE5-C7-DB4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fvRsRfW)
From there I struck the punch with a hammer into a chunk of lead to create an impression, then set annealed pieces of sheet brass over the impression and drove the punch into the brass.
To save time making tools and get back to more exciting gun work, the punch was made half the length of the pipes. To make the full length pattern I reverse it and hammer again.
(https://i.ibb.co/z6m5TBd/7-BBDC14-D-97-C9-4-E96-8090-230393455388.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HhK2fbZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/DggNdLn/4-E7-AEAAA-F8-C2-42-CE-A89-B-1-E7565096-CE9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rffg9vJ)
Here's one quickly rolled around an unsuspecting drill bit and pinched in the vise to create the tab.
(https://i.ibb.co/stDXXLT/E5-DD0476-E9-BA-4-F2-F-908-A-3-A4-AE3180433.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KmQ88Ct)
I have made a couple others with different patterns.
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You make lots of things look easy. Thanks! I will give it a try. I was thinking I needed a top and bottom steel swage. This is a better use of time for occasional use.
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A couple pictures of making the sideplate - I usually design a sideplate by drawing it right on the gun after the lock bolts are in and the panel is shaped. When I come up with something that makes me happy I trace it and glue the paper to whatever stock I'm using.
(https://i.ibb.co/pJR9bsm/81172-FFD-C0-EE-4-AE8-8434-22-F33-B0369-D3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/18dw7pS)
(https://i.ibb.co/6mBVRhH/D409-BA72-9518-4-DFE-94-D3-7755-E3-C0-CD7-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KXwRjZ2)
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You make lots of things look easy. Thanks! I will give it a try.
You're welcome Rich! Remember, if it seems difficult, grab a bigger hammer. Works every time.
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Thanks fellows for sharing this great information.
Bob
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Ian,
I ave a Bridgeport mill, lathe, surface grinder, shaper plus much more in my shop and the forming tool you made could be made using the shaper. But…I find many times it is easier to make things by hand, exactly like you did, it’s just plain faster. Interest seeing how you did it….Nice tutorial of the process.
Thanks,
Bob
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Ian, where did you get your graver bit from?
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Ian, where did you get your graver bit from?
A friend who was getting out of the business gave me a couple boxes full of assorted tools and there were a few gravers and die sinker chisels in there. I have shaped and reground some of them for special purposes, this one flat and with a wider cutting edge like a cape chisel so you can cut a slot wiithout the shank getting trapped
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Great work Ian! I love your gun. Thanks for the tutorial on the thimble process. That poor drillbit never saw that coming either!
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That poor drillbit never saw that coming either!
Now it knows why all the other drill bits were hiding in the big red box
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I bought some die sinkers years ago and can't remember where I got them. I could use a couple more but haven't found any yet.
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Really like your sideplate. Thanks for the tutorial on how to make your pipes. Neat Gun!
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Nice.
I have a somewhat simpler block and a punch I use to make the ribs on the ends of octagonal pipes.
Dan
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I bought die sinkers chisels about 43 years ago that came from Brownell's...they likely still carry them. They were the only chisels I had for engraving around the first hundred rifles off my bench. Then I discovered Glensteel from GRS! But when it comes to removing lots of stock in a hurry, the die sinkers chisels do the job best.
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I bought die sinkers chisels about 43 years ago that came from Brownell's...they likely still carry them. They were the only chisels I had for engraving around the first hundred rifles off my bench. Then I discovered Glensteel from GRS! But when it comes to removing lots of stock in a hurry, the die sinkers chisels do the job best.
Hi Taylor,
I am afraid folks will have trouble finding them. Brownell's no longer carries them and I searched for other sources for a friend and could not find any. I believe the occupation of die sinker is essentially extinct. The closest I could find are jeweler's chasing chisels but they are not the same as those chisels sold by Brownells. I am really glad I bought my set 40 years.
(https://i.ibb.co/jy9fd4j/chiseling-side-plate.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3p5dwhP)
dave