AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: AZshot on September 20, 2022, 04:53:46 AM

Title: Trying to roughly place and date a carved, iron mounted rifle
Post by: AZshot on September 20, 2022, 04:53:46 AM

I have an iron mounted rifle coming to me that has enough unusual features that made me get it.  It's a fullstock flintlock.  It's alleged to be  a 46" barrel and 62" overall.  There is forestock molding and an incised line at the bottom of the butt that stops at the trigger.  It's a single trigger.  The triggerguard it simple, with a downward pointing tip. There is no sideplate. If all that isn't weird enough, it has a sliding wooden patchbox that is pretty small, and just has a wood piece that slides in a dovetail, not a larger piece that covers the rectangular hole.  And it has some simple scroll carvings (not high relief) on the butt behind the cheekpiece, and one scroll coming off the wrist towards the cheekpiece. There are vent pick holders underneath it.  The iron buttplate is thin, and the plate is just moderately curved.  I'll know more when I get it, and post good pictures instead of this.

I'm thinking SW Virginia, but I could be wrong. I'm afraid to guess a date yet, moderately early.  What do the experts think?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52370752059_3081684d11_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52369496262_c9fe102b72_b.jpg)

Title: Re: Trying to roughly place and date a carved, iron mounted rifle
Post by: Cades Cove Fiddler on September 20, 2022, 07:43:46 AM

 8) 8)... Glad you got that one,.. Great price, too ... I had looked at it, but passed,... you did well,.... T/G and overall profile made me think Deep River NC,... but I will let Michael Briggs be the judge,... you made a great purchase,... Congratulations,... !!! .... CCF

Title: Re: Trying to roughly place and date a carved, iron mounted rifle
Post by: AZshot on September 20, 2022, 03:22:42 PM

Thanks, it's an unusual one. My research is leaning towards the Rockbridge, Botetourt, Wythe county, VA area. But I'm fairly uncertain. Of course I'd be thrilled if it's from NC (my heritage).  I've found few other iron-mounted southern rifles with incised wood carving.  Ones is the MESDA one from the lower VA central valley:
(https://mesda.org/collection/image/full/00121/ACC_2433_j-jpg636457372130000000.jpg)
https://mesda.org/item/collections/long-rifle/1156/.   

And this one from the VA central valley.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52370960602_efe997e8c6_o.jpg)

https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/1989-B60-Long-rifles-of-the-Shenandoah-Valley-of-.pdf

Title: Re: Trying to roughly place and date a carved, iron mounted rifle
Post by: Shreckmeister on September 20, 2022, 08:50:34 PM

Can't help you at all, but I sure do like it.  It has lots of appeal.  I hope you can learn where it came from.

Title: Re: Trying to roughly place and date a carved, iron mounted rifle
Post by: rich pierce on September 20, 2022, 09:21:10 PM

Of course we don’t know if the lock has been altered but the styling of the cock looks late flint; 1820-ish to me. Also the buttplate curvature and narrowness of the buttplate look later than the Bogle rifle, for example.

Title: Re: Trying to roughly place and date a carved, iron mounted rifle
Post by: AZshot on September 20, 2022, 10:08:33 PM

Thanks both.  The seller said the flint cock is replaced.  It's too small for that lock, different amount of wear.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52370752034_147b5bdc97_b.jpg)

Title: Re: Trying to roughly place and date a carved, iron mounted rifle
Post by: MGillman on September 26, 2022, 05:52:18 PM

Quote from: AZshot on September 20, 2022, 03:22:42 PM

Thanks, it's an unusual one. My research is leaning towards the Rockbridge, Botetourt, Wythe county, VA area. But I'm fairly uncertain. Of course I'd be thrilled if it's from NC (my heritage).  I've found few other iron-mounted southern rifles with incised wood carving.  Ones is the MESDA one from the lower VA central valley:
(https://mesda.org/collection/image/full/00121/ACC_2433_j-jpg636457372130000000.jpg)
https://mesda.org/item/collections/long-rifle/1156/.   

And this one from the VA central valley.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52370960602_efe997e8c6_o.jpg)

https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/1989-B60-Long-rifles-of-the-Shenandoah-Valley-of-.pdf

I am just going to throw this out there, but I believe you may be on to something with the lower Shenandoah Valley. (Boutertout, Rockbridge, Augusta County)

Title: Re: Trying to roughly place and date a carved, iron mounted rifle
Post by: AZshot on September 26, 2022, 10:05:02 PM

Thanks for the reply.  I can't wait to get it in hand and see some features I haven't seen yet, like the tang.  And the forestock molding.  I have a few poor pictures of that.  I'm hoping to narrow it down or confirm it when I get it.  I know it came from the same place I got a William Zollman rifle, from Rockbridge Co. Here is that thread: https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=71728.0   But I can't get any other provenance from the seller.  I've been studying all my North Carolina rifles books too, and seeing some connections.

Update: I got it and started a new post with better pictures.