AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: smart dog on November 17, 2022, 01:57:19 AM
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Hi,
I had a bout with Covid last August and although my symptoms were very mild, I still suffered extreme fatigue and brain fog. I could do no shop work for 6 weeks because of tiredness and a horrible tendency to make mindless mistakes. Anyway, I am recovered and back to work. However, I am way behind schedule so have a lot of projects stacked up this winter and next spring. This is the first of my winter projects, a John Hills inspired rifle. Hills was the first documented gunsmith in Vermont and there are at least 2 surviving rifles he made during the last decade of the 18th century while living in Charlotte, Vermont. You can see them in Shumway's collection of "Longrifles of Note vol. 2." I'll not post photos of them to avoid violating copyright protections. My barrel is a Rice classic Dickert in 54 caliber cut back to 41". The original rifle I am working from had a 43" barrel but the owner of my version is fairly short so the shorter barrel fits him better. I've proportioned everything to adjust for that shorter barrel. The lock is a Chambers early Ketland modified slightly to better match Hills' work. The mounts will be brass and I have components that can be modified to look right. The only thing I am still missing is a trigger guard that will work. I think I am going to have to cobble one together. The red maple stock is from Allen Martin and is superb. It is as hard as sugar maple but the figure is fantastic. Thank you Allen!!! Anyway, here is where I am. The barrel is in, along with the barrel tang, and the ramrod hole is drilled. The ramrod hole is a full 3/8" to accommodate a stout 3/8" ramrod but it means the space at the breech is really packed with stuff. It is not drilled parallel with the bore of the barrel, rather it is follows the swamp of the barrel more or less so the web of wood remains fairly constant at 1/8-5/32" wide.
(https://i.ibb.co/x2dMswD/Curt-s-rifle-barrel-tang-inlet-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VL5vNbt)
(https://i.ibb.co/QJRbbC5/Curt-s-rifle-barrel-tang-inlet.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/k8mZ6bB/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QND0jSQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/p1BP6C1/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cySvKzy)
(https://i.ibb.co/BsTkhq9/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0JY50hx)
(https://i.ibb.co/thpJM2j/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/0tZ49Xf/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
dave
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Will be a handsome rifle, I look forward to following along. Studying.
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A grand start, Dave! In my mind, I am wondering how you bored the ramrod hole parallel to the swamp!
I will hold off sending you that lock for repair, as you sound up to your ears already!
It is in no rush, so will see how you are doing sometime in the future Dave.
Very best!
Richard.
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Hi Richard,
Send the lock on whenever you would like. I intended to work on it this winter and if I need to replace any parts using those from TRS or Kevin Blackley, it might be good to have plenty of time. To make the ramrod groove and hole roughly follow the profile of the barrel, I first trim the bottom of the stock to a straight line that is about equidistant from the muzzle and breech. I usually let the line get a little closer to the barrel at the breech. Then I make sure the bottom is flat and true to that line and cut the ramrod groove with a 3/8" round router bit in a router mounted in a router table. The bottom of the stock is down on the table and the router cuts a groove parallel with my line. Then I just drill the hole using the groove as a guide.
dave
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I like it! Nice work.
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OK on the lock, Dave.
Now you mention it, I know Hershel H. does the same with the channel.
When I first read your post, I imagined a ramrod Hole with a curve!....that would be very clever stuff! LOL.
Looking forward to updates on this.
Kind regards,
R.
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Hi,
I got the lock installed this afternoon. I am always impressed by folks like Mike Brooks who can install a lock in an hour or less. I've built a lot of guns but it still takes me a full afternoon to inlet a lock. I do it piecemeal, which works for me but I make no claims that way is "the" way to do it. Anyway, I mark my barrel for the vent hole but I don't drill it. Drilling the vent hole is one of the last tasks I do on a gun. I position the hole about 1/8" in font of the breech plug and usually in the middle or slightly lower on the barrel flat. Then I inlet the bolster on the lock plate so the plate will sit down on the wood. Before doing any of that , however, I trim the side panel such that I only have 1/16" extra wood needed to fit the lock. I hate inletting through a lot of excess wood.
With the plate flat on the wood, I trace it and inlet it. I using blacking to make sure it sits in the mortise evenly. The I place a close fitting drill in the tumbler hole and smack it with a hammer. That marks the tumbler position in the stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/K7BkTpg/Curt-s-rifle-lock-inlet-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q9hfT38)
(https://i.ibb.co/8BvTrVz/Curt-s-rifle-lock-inlet-1a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xs9P1Qm)
I center punch the mark, measure the depth of the tumbler below the lock plate, and drill a hole in the stock that depth and a little larger diameter than the spindle.
(https://i.ibb.co/82LCPrG/Curt-s-rifle-lock-inlet-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZJR4PjQ/Curt-s-rifle-lock-inlet-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wLZGXkn)
Next, I place the tumbler in the hole and trace the arc of its motion on the stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/Q9F49Cc/Curt-s-rifle-lock-inlet-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Then I cut away that tracing the depth of the tumbler body using a big drill, a router bit on my Dremel Destroyer, and chisels.
(https://i.ibb.co/GMkcV0L/Curt-s-rifle-lock-inlet-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hdHDKyj)
Then I put punch holes for the bridle screws through the lock plate, drill them to the depth of the bridle screws, and inlet the bridle.
(https://i.ibb.co/FJth2cM/Curt-s-rifle-lock-inlet-6.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I follow that procedure to inlet all the other parts. I use a large drill to make the hole for the sear and clear away space for the parts using chisels and my Dremel Destroyer. It does help to have inlet a certain lock before so you know what the mortise should look like. I put the mainspring in last and try to remove just enough wood for it to fit and function. I use a 1/4" drill marked for the depth of the spring to remove much of the wood. Then flat chisels and my Dremel Destroyer. Note I try to preserve as much wood as possible under the lower oblique flat of the barrel but I almost always break through to the barrel channel a little bit unless I narrow the mainspring or use a skinny barrel. If modern-made locks had taller studs that fit under the lock plate bolster such that the upper leaf of the spring is lower on the lock plate, that would not happen.
(https://i.ibb.co/BGx7sLT/Curt-s-rifle-lock-inlet-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KDkQy6V)
(https://i.ibb.co/TWjxMSx/Curt-s-rifle-lock-inlet-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WV84vw4)
I still need to clean up some fuzzies of wood and will eventually dress up the mortise further later in the game. John Hills, like so many other early American gunsmiths probably hogged wood out of the lock mortise to get the job done quickly. I take my cue from those forgotten British musket "setter uppers" who managed much better despite making thousands of muskets quickly and cheaply.
I realized that I failed to mention the lock is a Chambers early Ketland but the plate was modified to more closely copy Hills' work. As a result, there is very little extra space at the tail of the lock.
dave
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I picked up a couple of things to try from your approach to lock inletting. Thanks for the detailed description.
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Hi,
The butt plate is on. I modified an English fowler butt plate from Janet Goehring to create a typical John Hills butt plate. I call it Hills' "angry man" plate. I'll leave you to guess why I do that. These butt plates are a bit more of a challenge than those typically on long rifles but they are not hard.
(https://i.ibb.co/wr3k0nc/Curt-s-rifle-butt-plate-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
This is the set up I use to start the process. The wooden leg vise holds securely so the end of the gun is at my chest level. I anchor the other end to my sliding deadman using a bench dog.
(https://i.ibb.co/jrSZ46Z/Curt-s-rifle-butt-plate-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d5RJKWJ)
Later, when I want the stock held more horizontal, I'll use a pattern maker's vise to hold it. I trim the end of the stock as close to my tracing of the inside edges of the butt plate as I can and also trim off a lot of excess wood on the sides, top, and bottom. Then I position where the top of the radiused shoulder will come on the stock and cut down and across to make a shoulder.
(https://i.ibb.co/sbKF5wQ/Curt-s-rifle-butt-plate-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dz97GCk)
I then start inletting the top return starting at the heel and working forward until it is done. Because the return continually narrows toward its end, you can move it forward as you fit it without creating any gaps. That makes it easy to get a tight fit all around.
(https://i.ibb.co/gRRG0dD/Curt-s-rifle-butt-plate-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DRRNBY7)
(https://i.ibb.co/3F3JV94/Curt-s-rifle-butt-plate-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/dMxvh4b/Curt-s-rifle-butt-plate-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wgjqvhJ)
Finally, I drill for the two screws and mount them and I am done for now.
(https://i.ibb.co/Y7TKLc6/Curt-s-rifle-butt-plate-9.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/hC5F2W0/Curt-s-rifle-butt-plate-10.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/4KjjTX7/Curt-s-rifle-butt-plate-11.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
dave
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That buttplate looks nice! I've generally inlet fowling piece buttplates in a similar manner. I did more fully inlet a silver buttplate once as I was concerned it would dent and deform.
Great job and I think it will look just right
Jim
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Hi Jim,
Thank you. I have an original fowler by Joseph Heylin that was silver mounted and he inlet the butt plate just as you described. It was fully backed by wood all the way because it could dent. I can imagine how you must have inlet that beautiful silver butt plate on the Harman-inspired fowler you posted years ago. I think Mike Brook's comment on that gun was, "that is the way they should be made".
dave
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Hi,
Got a lot of shaping done. It should be a nice slim elegant gun. I use chisels, a plane, pattern makers rasps, and a Japanese saw to remove a lot of wood quickly.
(https://i.ibb.co/dtvN962/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DYFBXkC)
(https://i.ibb.co/2Nr8HXq/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5F3YwqT)
(https://i.ibb.co/wQPLL1S/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GM8JJjW)
My current problem is what to do with the cheek piece. The cheek pieces on the 2 John Hills rifles shown in Shumway's "Long Rifles of Note Vol 2" are misshapen ugly lumps. My apprentice, Maria, heard me groaning as I sat on my stool yesterday looking at photos of the original gun and trying to pencil in some acceptable design on the stock. I was not succeeding. The owner of the gun punted by telling me me he trusted my artistic abilities to make it look like Hills' work but nicer. Great. :-\ I'll figure out something.
(https://i.ibb.co/b5vb4RB/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v4dXNvP)
I'll think about it tomorrow.
dave
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David,
Not much help here I know, but to use an old expression, "beauty may only be skin deep...but ugly goes clear to the bone !" Just say'in
Good luck !
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Hi Dave,
Thanks. An ugly gun is like having a hair in the back of the throat. :P
dave
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Hi Guys,
A bit more done today. I installed the barrel lugs, inlet, and drilled them for 5/64" pins. One of the Hills rifles appears to have a brass nose band, while the other has a muzzle cap. I opted for the cap and had just the right size in my stock of soldered muzzle caps. I have no idea if the original rifle had a soldered or one-piece cap, or even one open at the front. I installed a simple cap with soldered front. Then I shaved down the forestock. I do that by marking lines on the stock that define flats I will plane. This is the method I taught my blind friend, Josh, to use to shape fore stocks evenly. With a square, I draw a lines parallel to the top edges of the barrel channel and ramrod groove. In this case, I chose a line 1/4" down from the edge of the barrel channel and 3/8" up from the edge of the ramrod groove.
(https://i.ibb.co/30WxNTM/Curt-s-rifle-forestock-1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Then I plane a flat along the top edge of the barrel channel about 45 degrees and meeting my line but remaining about 1/16" away from the barrel channel. Note, I already coated the barrel channel with a varnish thin layer of stained AcraGlas. I do that to greatly strengthen (3 to 10 times the strength of uncoated wood) the barrel channel walls.
(https://i.ibb.co/x7RQm0g/Curt-s-rifle-forestock-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rw1JbSp)
Then I rotate the stock and plane the flat along the ramrod channel. Next I plane down the crest between the two flats. This removes wood very quickly and creates the profile I am looking for. It only takes about 20 minutes per side to get it done.
(https://i.ibb.co/4fLr5w2/Curt-s-rifle-forestock-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/j5jZcbC/Curt-s-rifle-forestock-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1n4JD7C)
Then I inletted the forward ramrod pipes and called it a day.
(https://i.ibb.co/XSCqKV6/Curt-s-rifle-forestock-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3BCnjkV)
(https://i.ibb.co/MPG0js8/Curt-s-rifle-forestock-6.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
dave
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Looks great, Dave.
What would you say influenced the style of John Hill's rifles? To my very untrained eye, the profile makes me think of an English or French Fowler.
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Hi HU,
Oh man, that is a great question and I do not have a satisfying answer. The Hills family was initially based in Goshen, CT not far from the NY border. Their work varied a lot but they often used brass mounts that clearly were inspired by the Dutch in the Hudson River Valley. Their extensive use of well figured sugar maple also suggests a strong Hudson River influence. However, their stocks were often more like typical New England products that showed strong French influence. It is really hard to place them in any regional shoe box. In many ways, they did their own thing. HU, at one time during the early years of the Rev War the gun trade in Goshen, a tiny rural town, employed up to 30 workers. They apparently made everything including barrels and locks, and unlike the Lancaster rifle makers, actually produced a lot of muskets for the patriot cause. John Hills moved to Pomfret, Vermont in 1776. He was active in militia in the area but also may have been making muskets for the local patriots. There is no record of his production at Pomfret but he was identified as a gunsmith by the community. After the war, he moved to Charlotte (pronounced "shar LOT") Vermont and at least 6 guns , including 2 rifles, survive from his time there. He had a homestead on what is now called Hills Point Road and lived on Hills Point on Lake Champlain. He was always called "Captain Hills" because of his Rev War service in militia and was a prominent citizen of Charlotte. I've visitied his grave in Barber Hill cemetery, Charlotte, VT several times. I used to live in that town during the 1980s.
dave
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Hi,
Got more done today. All the ramrod pipes are in. I used cast brass pipes sold for English fowlers. They are similar to some used by Hills. However, the decorative shield on the rear pipe will be files away to create a simpler more rustic design consistent with Hills' work. There is a real advantage to using those pipes because the tubes are identical including the rear pipe. That makes inletting the rear pipe a breeze. I first inlet a forward pipe in the space for the tube section, and then just inlet the rear pipe tang. It really simplifies the task.
(https://i.ibb.co/QCG7Bfc/Curt-s-rifle-ramrod-pipe-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YyG493W)
(https://i.ibb.co/6YQXnvZ/Curt-s-rifle-ramrod-pipe-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kKZmH3y)
All the pipes are in and pinned with 1/16" diameter spring steel rod. Note the barrel lugs show in the ramrod channel.
(https://i.ibb.co/N2qYv1S/Curt-s-rifle-ramrod-pipe-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zVgfM8J)
Some folks always ask if that is OK and it certainly is. You fill see it on many originals, including high-end English sporting guns, and is almost impossible to avoid if you are making a slim gun with a narrow web of wood separating the barrel from the ramrod.
I resolved the cheek piece. I decide to form it into a small rectangular shape that I call "duck's lips". It has some of the feel of Hiils' cheek pieces but avoids their clunky awkwardness.
(https://i.ibb.co/tK9ztxq/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DWZYy89)
(https://i.ibb.co/k5T4brD/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7jDnMTp)
I pared away a lot of wood and the gun is taking shape.
(https://i.ibb.co/x8RCv3B/Curt-s-rifle-butt-plate-12.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/4NMBvQD/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0JZP4wW)
dave
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It is not drilled parallel with the bore of the barrel, rather it is follows the swamp of the barrel more or less so the web of wood remains fairly constant at 1/8-5/32" wide.
Loving this, very cool project and I was wondering if you could elaborate some on just how you drilled the ramrod to follow the swamped barrel?
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Wingshot, he explains it in post #3, however, I had a hard time understanding exactly what he did from reading the explanation.
Dave, thanks for that background information. It is very interesting and I can see how his work may have just been an amalgamation of design features from other regions, which I would call doing his own thing.
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Hi and thank you for looking,
Wingshot, making the ramrod hole follow the profile of the barrel is easy to explain but it does take some finesse to do. First, I make sure the sides of the still squared stock are perpendicular to the bottom so I can run one side against a fence on a router table. Then I draw straight lines on both sides of the stock that are about 1/8" to 3/16" below the barrel at the muzzle and 1/8" below the barrel at the breech so they roughly follow the barrel profile but are straight lines and do not curve with the barrel. Those lines represent where the top of the ramrod will rest in the stock. I use those lines to mark out parallel lines indicating where I want the bottom of the stock to be on the squared blank giving myself a little extra stock depth to work with. For example on this gun with a 3/8" diameter ramrod, I wanted the bottom to be 3/8" + 1/4" below the lines under the barrel. Then I bandsaw and plane the bottom of the stock to be true to those lines. Now I have the bottom of the stock parallel with the lines representing the top of the ramrod. Now I can rest the bottom on my router table and use a fence as a guide to rout a 3/8" diameter groove to the depth of the top of the ramrod and it will roughly follow the outside profile of the barrel rather than the bore. A word of warning, I never do this unless I drew plans of the gun making sure the ramrod hole has plenty of wood under it at the breech to fit the trigger plate and trigger guard, particularly if the barrel has a wide and strongly tapered breech. The end result of doing this is a nice slim fore stock yet still sufficient space between the barrel and ramrod to fit the forward lock bolt.
dave
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The ramrod following the barrel is pretty much vital for a fowling piece with a barrel of an appreciable size. Otherwise the forestock ends up being so deep. I think this is a fault of many smoothbores you see being made today.
I even use this process on some rifles I build. In fact, this is the case with our production "woodsrunner" kits.
Jim
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Thanks for taking the time to document this build Dave. Not an easy thing to do; keeping track of and makeing sure you get the Pix you need, plus doing the write-ups all take up time.
Tim
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Thanks for that detailed explanation. I’m still digesting it but I think I understand what you’re describing. I’m building an SMR from a blank and want it as skinny as it can get it.
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Hi Wingshot,
Perhaps you might be confused because my router is mounted under my router table and the bit comes up like a table saw. So I want the bottom of my stock blank, which is resting on the table to be parallel with the line for the ramrod I drew under the barrel so I can cut a groove parallel to that line.
(https://i.ibb.co/zHp1cLY/ramrod-groove-drawing.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CsgqdXZ)
dave
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Now THAT was helpful! I was kind of visualizing what your drawing clearly shows, thank you!
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Hi,
First let me thank you all for your interest and comments. I appreciate them and I hope you find this thread useful. New England made rifles from the 18th century are extremely rare and most rifles attributed or documented to that period are nothing like the 19th century rifles commonly made in NE and identified as such. It is a story that needs telling but the data are very sparse.
Got a lot of shaping done. I've posted several threads over the years about shaping lock panels, breech area, and wrist. I also taught that process at Dixons and now at the Kempton gunmaker's fair. I'll just say here that I do not use gouges or chisels to shape those areas except for the very nose of the lock panel. This is a task that most new builders get very wrong and if done badly, ruins the entire project. Anyway, I shape the lock area and wrist with pattern makers rasps and the lock and side plate panels form naturally as I round the squared up stock. Here you can see how the panels are formed without any recourse to chisels.
(https://i.ibb.co/FVJ30Lg/Curt-s-rifle-lock-panels-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/Kz9qJ48/Curt-s-rifle-lock-panels-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Just use the rasps flat and convex sides to shape the stock. I do use gouges to shape the nose of the lock and sideplate panels. However, I want to describe to you some of the nuance pertaining to that task. I don't believe you will find this in any video or book. First, let define my rules for lock panels based on experience with original guns and making aesthetically pleasing recreations. Please do not assume I mean these to be the ONLY way. There may be other combinations that fly but these are my candid observations and guidelines for my work.
1. Limit the use of chisels and gouges to shape lock and side plate panels to the final stages of the process and for details.
2. Keep the flats around round-faced lock plates vanishingly small and allow flats around any lock to expand only as you progress toward the 19th century. This always has exceptions but those exceptions are usually associated with poorly trained rural gun makers.
3. Flats around locks do not need to be even. When they are even the result is often awkward and clumsy looking. This is because the lock itself does not look even around its borders. I has greater mass on top and less below. Making the flats wider below and narrower on top enhances balance in the appearance. Moreover, extending the flats forward at the nose and rearward at the tails also improves the image.
4. The lock panel and side plate panel do not need to be identical. If you look down on the stock from the top, I believe it best that the panels start and end looking even and the points of beginning and ending should be at the same vertical positions the sides of the stock. Beyond that, all bets are off. Particularly in English work, I tailor the panels to fit the lock and the sideplate separately.
5. There is almost never a need for an ugly notch to clear the flintcock if you know what you are doing.
John Hills' lock panels are simple and some are finely shaped and others not . Moreover, they vary a lot between his guns so this gives me some latitude. As I wrote before, I don't use gouges much except around the nose of the panels. Even the use of gouges has nuance and I am going to describe some details that I do not think anyone has provided before. I am focusing on the lock panel shaping extending from the lock pan down to the nose of the lock. So many inexperienced builders make that area look clumsy and awkward. Sometimes they punt and don't even try to shape it just cutting it off as part of the "flat" and leaving a big ugly flat blob. Others try to cut tightly concave edges that follow the lock evenly to the pan. Those are more skillful but they usually look very clumsy. Here is how I do this on most guns and particularly my British guns but also many long rifles and New England guns.
I want both panels to be close to symmetrical on the Hills gun so I shape the lock side, then do a rubbing of the panel on paper and transfer it to the other side of the stock. That provides the guidelines to work from.
(https://i.ibb.co/xYSR9hg/Curt-s-rifle-lock-panels-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZS6k4dg)
Then I use a wide shallow sweep gouge to cut the area from the lock pan to the nose of the side panel. I do not use a small diameter gouge. I want the concave surface to be shallow and broad. IMO, this looks immensely better than a deep tight radiused depression at this position. It is also he way British guns were done.
(https://i.ibb.co/DLrzj5m/Curt-s-rifle-lock-panels-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b7bQGzY)
(https://i.ibb.co/KhH9TFG/Curt-s-rifle-lock-panels-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T25H9mT)
Then I smooth the cuts with a wide Fisher round scraper I bought from Brownells 40 years ago.
(https://i.ibb.co/m8sWfDd/Curt-s-rifle-lock-panels-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5FDHbMC)
Next, I use a smaller gouge to cut the curve around the front of the panel.
(https://i.ibb.co/LZJPdBx/Curt-s-rifle-lock-panels-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XC34x67)
And then clean up the panel with a round file.
(https://i.ibb.co/JFPV3CC/Curt-s-rifle-lock-panels-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wp1ZVss)
Here is the finished work.
(https://i.ibb.co/z6Fshyp/Curt-s-rifle-lock-panels-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y4p0nwt)
(https://i.ibb.co/0B5rsNM/Curt-s-rifle-lock-panels-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HNZqhvz)
I also did a lot of shaping of the stock. Here is where I am.
(https://i.ibb.co/cTKkkZW/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6scrrTK)
(https://i.ibb.co/c8cKRG6/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/949mBFb)
(https://i.ibb.co/LrJpTmN/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-15.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XD3Jn1Y)
(https://i.ibb.co/HC6HJr4/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-16.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2Sxkbjh)
(https://i.ibb.co/tZPHYPG/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-17.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q8jJYjg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Tck150q/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-18.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0qcK39V)
dave
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There have been many great tutorials on this site and this is shaping up to be one of the best. The photos are great and the explanations are easy to follow, a great effort in progress. Thank you!
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I must echo Ed above Dave.
Wonderful tutorial!!
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Hi,
Thanks for the kind comments. I do hope this thread is useful. Well, another challenge for the project is nobody makes a triggerguard even close to those made by Hills. So I bought this one from TOW.
(https://i.ibb.co/SQfQ4LY/track-trigger-guard.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1szstSy)
Then I modified it a lot. I cut off the front extension and filed the rear into a simple even width extension. I made a front finial from a piece cut from an old wax cast butt plate. I did that rather than simply use sheet brass because of the color match. Then I drilled and threaded a hole into the front of the bow, made the front extension and drilled a hole through it, and made a tab with threaded lug so it could anchor the assembly together and form the tab for the forward cross pin.
(https://i.ibb.co/DW3Cw3d/making-trigger-guard-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mTQqhQp)
I assembled it and then silver soldered the front extension, tab, and trigger guard together.
(https://i.ibb.co/SXqB3HF/making-trigger-guard-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7J7K1Bs)
(https://i.ibb.co/C9pS9zP/making-trigger-guard-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Yd4Vd30)
(https://i.ibb.co/pLBnK0M/making-trigger-guard-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jrPHw6Q)
It is not a perfect match to guards by Hills but is close.
dave
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Dave, I'm always amazed at how simply you explain how you do various tasks and I've employed a few of them ever since I met you at Dixons back in 2019, I think.
The one thing you just mentioned that raised my eyebrow was that you dont have a nice gash in the wood behind the neck of the cock in the upper part of your panel so that it doesn't interfere with cocking the hammer. Would you mind explaining how you avoid that as I've yet to have not done that. Appreciate your tutorials!
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I think the area where the cock near touches the stock is filed quite flat from the tang down to the lock panel. Maybe Dave could post a photo from the rear with a straight edge laid upon the area to better show us.
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Hi,
If you make the flats along the top of the lock panel very thin and then taper them inward toward the pan, exposing the top of the bolster on the lock plate, there is no need for a notch to clear the flint cock. The photos below show what I mean.
(https://i.ibb.co/G9nvt0N/lock-shoulder-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qC7MWdV)
(https://i.ibb.co/Zg3r53T/lock-shoulder-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ykDCtDs)
dave
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I do see and understand now what you mean. Took me a few minutes. I'm guessing a lot determines where the pan is located on the flat. Yours appears to be lower of center. Is that what you strive for or simply wherever it falls so that the tail of the plate is somewhat centered in the wrist?
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Hi Scott,
The example I showed is a Chambers Little Fella's kit so the lock position was pre-determined and is about the middle of the barrel flat. In general, I position the tail of the lock and side plate panels either in the middle of the wrist or slightly below center. Often slightly below looks better even if the tail of the lock is centered on the wrist. Here is an example where everything is centered.
(https://i.ibb.co/KrmPkX5/star-of-bethlehem-redone-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FDnrMKh)
Here are examples in which the panel tails are below center.
(https://i.ibb.co/FJJwc2s/finished-rifle-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sQQwcn5)
(https://i.ibb.co/jZx8b2Y/Toms-swivel-breech-lever-engraving-zpsruo97wcw.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JFbcm4T)
They each make their own statements.
dave
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Thanks for the added info and photos Dave.
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Ok. I have it now. Thanks for the additional pictures and explanation. I have an early reading I'm working on now and have already "gashed" the groove for the rear side of the cock. But I think I'll rework the panel some and taper as you showed to see how much of the gash disappears.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZdJvDNy/20220808-171206.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y0RKjVL)
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Hi,
I inlet the trigger guard today and did more final shaping of the stock. The trigger plate is a commercial cast steel one from TOW and so is the trigger. They were perfect for this gun but the plate is long and the French-style guard has a middle tab for a pin that overlaps the plate. I had no worries because I just filed the tab into a hook and cut a slot for it in the trigger plate. This was done many times on British guns eliminating the need for one or more cross pins. It worked great. You position the hooked tab into the slot, then push down and slide it back to hook on the plate. At the same time the forward extension pops into the mortise and is pinned, and you push the rear extension in place to receive its pin. You just have to make sure the mortises for the front and rear lugs can accommodate the movement of the guard.
(https://i.ibb.co/SPJJmXX/Curt-s-rifle-trigger-guard-inlet-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/47JJSZZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/tLhHW5M/Curt-s-rifle-trigger-guard-inlet-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J3dcMPR)
(https://i.ibb.co/SXK4nxS/Curt-s-rifle-trigger-guard-inlet-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N6Ldj3R)
When inletting these long fowler-like guards, inlet the front extension first and either clamp or pin it.
(https://i.ibb.co/VWpZ133/Curt-s-rifle-trigger-guard-inlet-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/993LDGG)
Then inlet the rear extension working gradually backward. As the guard is set in the mortise, the rear will migrate forward. If you cut the mortise for the entire rear extension at once, you will end up with a gap forming at the rear. You also need to make sure the lug mortises have space toward the trigger so the guard can move forward as it is set in place.
(https://i.ibb.co/XSnTktB/Curt-s-rifle-trigger-guard-inlet-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gz0CFJ1)
No need for wood filer if you just pay attention and do it right.
Got a lot more final shaping done. It is looking sleek.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZTdKbL2/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C0BvS1P)
(https://i.ibb.co/hWvdvbg/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-20.jpg) (https://ibb.co/58VjVm1)
dave
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I always appreciate your tutorials, Dave. Thanks for taking the time (again).
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Wonderful.
So for your trigger guard, is the rear not pinned at all? Just a front pin and the rear notched tab?
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HU,
Hi,
I inlet the trigger guard today and did more final shaping of the stock. The trigger plate is a commercial cast steel one from TOW and so is the trigger. They were perfect for this gun but the plate is long and the French-style guard has a middle tab for a pin that overlaps the plate. I had no worries because I just filed the tab into a hook and cut a slot for it in the trigger plate. This was done many times on British guns eliminating the need for one or more cross pins. It worked great. You position the hooked tab into the slot, then push down and slide it back to hook on the plate. At the same time the forward extension pops into the mortise and is pinned, and you push the rear extension in place to receive its pin. You just have to make sure the mortises for the front and rear lugs can accommodate the movement of the guard.
(https://i.ibb.co/SPJJmXX/Curt-s-rifle-trigger-guard-inlet-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/47JJSZZ)
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I'm really liking the profile on this. Being that it has a single trigger and Fowler type gaurd, was the original a rifle or smoothbore? I'm just curious.
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Hi Scott,
This gun is based on 2 rifles by John Hills although I am not making a bench copy. The owner wants Hills "inspired" because there are some Hills details on his rifles that neither of us want to copy exactly, e.g. his cheek piece and patch box.
dave
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Hi,
The Hills' rifles have brass patch boxes. They are wide, fairly short, and oddly inlet. The style is attracive but the dimensions are not that pleasing and the position on the butt stock is high off center and perpendicular to the face of the butt plate. I decided to make a more attractive box using the same style and install it in a less funky position. However, I did not want to lose all of Hills' style so I made what I think is a pretty good compromise. The screws are temporary. I keep a collection of old screws with worn heads to use as temp screws that get turned in and out many times when a part is fitted. Then I replace them with clean finished screws at the end of the project.
(https://i.ibb.co/F3QVnsk/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vqNYDsC)
(https://i.ibb.co/kMkjRMY/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Another odd feature is the rear of the lid ends short of the butt plate with a strip of wood in between. That strip must have been very fragile and it is cracked, crumbled, and chipped on both original rifles. I was curious why he did that until I started making my own box for the gun. The butt plate has a screw in the heel and to avoid that, Hills had to position his release rod located in the return of the butt plate, far enough forward to clear the screw. That puts the catch on the lid quite a ways forward as well and obstructing a significant portion of the interior space of the box. So I believe Hills just moved the patch box forward from the butt plate. I was not going to do that so I had to devise a work around for the heel screw. I used a thin bar of spring steel, bent it to wrap around the top and back of the mortise and then turn bach into the mortise to form a hook for the lid catch. So the release spring and hook are all one piece of 1075 steel. I gave the screw end of the spring a little twist so I could access the head of the screw with a turn screw.
(https://i.ibb.co/4YvDX7Z/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YynK137)
(https://i.ibb.co/D4FnYGD/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6YS58vR)
(https://i.ibb.co/dmXv2NG/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z6CgR3G)
Then I drilled for the release bar and button, which pushes the spring and releases the hook. It works really well. The catch is strong and positive but release doesn't take much pressure on the button. In the final version, I may use slightly thicker spring steel. Now I have to drill butt plate return for the button, and fit it.
(https://i.ibb.co/tpXhKrR/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8gcBsZk)
(https://i.ibb.co/YTh7nrP/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zHZh9kQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/pJGLZmS/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r4TwMWV)
dave
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That looks just right!
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I love this project and you are doing a great job on the build. Looking forward to the final photos.
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Hi and thanks Jim and Rich,
I forgot to mention that I made the patch box with the hinge made separately from the lid and finial. I learned that method from Dave Crisalli. The hinge is soldered to the finial and lid and makes for a nice clean look when polished up. On one of the original Hills rifles, he made the lid and its hinge loops from one piece of thin brass double the length of the lid. The excess brass from forming the hinge loops then extends under the lid all the way to the end so the lid has a double thickness of brass for strength. The brass is then riveted together with 13 (copper, brass, iron?) rivets. In deference to John Hills, I am going to add 3 copper rivets to reinforce the attachment of the hinge to the lid.
dave
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Hi,
I got the release button done. I am really happy with this catch mechanism. It is very positive, simple, and almost fool proof. When the lid catches, you get an audible "click" and the push button mechanism works smoothly and very positively. It seems much better than the mechanisms sold by TOW and others with the "V" spring catch mechanism that can be finicky, not very positive and still work, and subject to a lot of adjustments. My only concern is that tools or stuff placed in the patchbox mortise could interfere with the spring catch. We will see. I made the push rod release from a bolt blank and turned a little brass "top hat" button. The rod is bent to accommodate the angle of the hole in the stock. Most of that hole is slightly larger than the diameter of the rod but the top portion is drilled wider to allow for movement of the button.
(https://i.ibb.co/FWRVzkX/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fSjvHV9)
(https://i.ibb.co/fGBrww9/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S7WVCCc)
It needed a little adjustment for length but fit well and works great. I hardened and tempered the springs and am done with it.
(https://i.ibb.co/WVWcdt5/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-11.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/6YxxvvR/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2qQQ887)
(https://i.ibb.co/0CHzhWH/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fkjT4Kj)
The catch is sturdy and positive with an audible "click" when engaged.
dave
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Very nice work on the patchbox and release Dave.
if tools, flints, etc were wrapped in a cloth they wouldn't get fouled up in the works.
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Looking nice and smooth. Easy on the eyes. I like it.
Jim
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Dave, that patchbox release spring arrangement is genius. So simple and easy. I really believe I could manage doing that and am now not afraid to try.
This is just another of the big lessons I am learning from this thread. Your instruction on installing the trigger guard (starting from the front and working back) is one that takes the fear of that task away.
Can't say how much I appreciate your dedication to teaching this art.
~Bob
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Hi Richard, Jim, and Bob,
Thank you for your comments. I appreciate them a lot. Bob, as you know from the "other" forum, I try to highlight details that often are not discussed, if at all, and even hard to find in the "how to" books. Just sort of filling in some gaps in details that I think are important.
I made the side plate today. Hills seemed to use 2 types. The rear lock bolt areas and tails of his types are the same but the forward section has either 1 step on top or steps top and bottom. Here is an example of the latter.
(https://i.ibb.co/19rkgpM/rufus-green.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qRNvS4C)
Here is my version of the former made from 1/8" thick brass sheet.
(https://i.ibb.co/qB6bVvH/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-22.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9nPRS7x)
It is a style the entire Hills family used from the mid 1700s. Mine will eventually be engraved in John Hills' style.
After inletting the side plate, I refined the lock and wrist area. Hills was not terribly fussy about those features. On some guns they have precise edges and shapes, and on others not so much. Width of lock panel flats varied from very thin to medium wide and the tails rather indifferently defined. On this one, the flats will be thin and shaped with a bit more care.
(https://i.ibb.co/R9jFpRW/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-21.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9NZD9Qj)
(https://i.ibb.co/Ch01FYX/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-23.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/rvfWZ07/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-24.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/GpQ9BQY/Curt-s-rifle-rough-stock-25.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
dave
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It's looking great Dave!
It's awesome to watch you work and see your progress.
And that's one very good looking side plate!
-MG
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Hi,
Fun day working on this rifle. The grunt stuff is done and now the fun stuff, albeit not a lot of it. Some John Hills guns and many New England guns have double line borders along the barrel channel and ramrod groove. I think the inspiration was from better quality French guns. Sometimes the border is a pair of raised beads as on this New England fowler.
(https://i.ibb.co/SRvZdJ9/finished-fowler-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6gsq1Nf)
(https://i.ibb.co/bvpRZrc/finished-fowler-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4SBgGjh)
Hills just cut incised lines. I cannot tell if he did this on his rifles but the famous "Rufus Greene" fowler made during the same time period has them. I decided to use the decorative device on this rifle. The shaping of the fore stock must be finished first and the surface as even and true as possible, otherwise the lines will look rough, wobbly, and uneven. I use an old marking gauge I inherited that was my great great great grandfather's. His name was E. E. Muschlitz and he grew up and was trained as a carpenter and joiner in Nazareth, PA. He moved to Brooklyn, NY and built many of the famous "Brooklyn Brownstone" homes in the late 1800s. Anyway, I deeply scribe the main line.
(https://i.ibb.co/kQbX7yw/Curt-s-rifle-decorative-lines-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Then I deepen the line using a long single line checkering tool made in England.
(https://i.ibb.co/YPkT2Xh/Curt-s-rifle-decorative-lines-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WGypn0f)
Then I use a 60 degree skip line checkering tool (16 lines/inch spacing) to cut the parallel lines.
(https://i.ibb.co/LpBpJW5/Curt-s-rifle-decorative-lines-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q1h1Wf5)
(https://i.ibb.co/jrBnnrf/Curt-s-rifle-decorative-lines-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RDZRRDb)
The result is very pleasing. I go over the top lines of each pair with a 90 degree cutter so the end result when stained will be a "thick and thin" decorative border.
(https://i.ibb.co/P6zydh2/Curt-s-rifle-decorative-lines-1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/9s680fR/Curt-s-rifle-decorative-lines-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2gxnrLX)
Next up is outlining carving around the barrel tang and removing the background. Hills usually carved a simple shape that sometimes looks like a shell and other times a round fan. It is sometimes hard to determine what he meant it to be. I created a design that mimics Hills' work but is a little more refined and unambiguous.
(https://i.ibb.co/FxVkXHD/Curt-s-rifle-barrel-tang-carving-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GxTf9H5)
I stab the edges in with small flat chisels.
(https://i.ibb.co/pfSY9t1/Curt-s-rifle-barrel-tang-carving-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Then use small skew chisels and riffler files to remove and smooth the background and clean up the edges.
(https://i.ibb.co/44fbs5r/Curt-s-rifle-barrel-tang-carving-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CVtjJTG)
I leave it here until after I have whiskered the stock in preparation for final finish and staining. After whiskering, I will cut in the details in the carving. This kind of design is found on so many New England guns. I call it the "potted plant on a pedestal" design. Some leafy or radiant shape at the end of straight austere borders along the barrel tang. It is not very imaginative but it is effective decoration. Next up, the wrist plate and finishing the stock.
dave
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"Then use small skew chisels and riffler files to remove and smooth the background and clean up the edges."
Could you please elaborate on "clean up the edges"? Is this a by product of stabbing in? How do you clean up the edges?
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What lovely work. Can’t wait to see the finished product! Seeing a pre-1790 New England rifle is like spotting a two-headed Turkey. They’re known to exist, but….
Jennison.
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"Then use small skew chisels and riffler files to remove and smooth the background and clean up the edges."
Could you please elaborate on "clean up the edges"? Is this a by product of stabbing in? How do you clean up the edges?
Hi,
I use narrow slightly curved riffler files that are safed on both sides with teeth only along the narrow edge. The photo shows 2 of them along with another riffler useful for smoothing the background and my scraper.
(https://i.ibb.co/wQFdbNM/third-day-13.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I use these tools to smooth the background and smooth and shape edges where needed.
dave
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Hi,
IT'S ORANGE! Curt will have no trouble finding his gun during a hunt, other hunters will see him and not shoot him, and he will be noticed by everyone on the shooting line. Win, win, win!!
I use orange, red, or yellow water-based aniline dye to paint the stock during whiskering. The color shows up all the scratches, especially on maple, and when it is all scraped and sanded away, I know I scraped and sanded the entire stock. Any residual color gets overwhelmed by the ferric nitrate stain I will use but if any orange still shows, it will compliment my staining.
(https://i.ibb.co/KF4yGN7/Curt-s-rifle-whiskering-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/72MyzgV)
(https://i.ibb.co/qCJnhRj/Curt-s-rifle-whiskering-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hcYMrK9)
(https://i.ibb.co/br4xk0L/Curt-s-rifle-whiskering-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LCTM3F6)
(https://i.ibb.co/zQdb6tq/Curt-s-rifle-whiskering-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9cP2ZdQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/DMxhMCF/Curt-s-rifle-whiskering-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
dave
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It’s going to pop!
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Hi,
I added the carving and the brass wrist plate. The carving at the barrel tang is inspired by Hills but not a copy. His carving varies a bit from rustic to crude so I refined things a little but kept the feel of it. I also added a simple incised carving behind the cheek piece. Again, Hills' carving at that location on his 2 rifles is pretty crude and not very appealing. So I interpreted my own design that does homage to Hills. I inlet the wrist plate and then popped it off for engraving. I designed a simple monogram with his initials and engraved it along with Hills' curvy border.
(https://i.ibb.co/zxtbjbb/Curt-s-rifle-finish-1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/gvgDbjb/Curt-s-rifle-finish-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SQvKDsD)
(https://i.ibb.co/s25k1ZS/Curt-s-rifle-finish-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/56YtjPD)
I think that is the only scroll I 've ever carved that follows the "golden mean". I guess it's never too late to follow the rules. After sanding and scraping the stock, I stained it with ferric nitrate dissolved in tap water 1 part crystals to 6 parts water by volume. Looks like really weak tea. After blushing with heat, I painted the stock with a lye and water solution, which made sure any residual acidity (theoretically there should be none after blushing when using ferric nitrate) was neutralized but more importantly, it enhances the red tones. When dry, I rubbed the stock vigorously with a maroon Scotch Bright pad to lighten the color. Finally, I put on the first coat of finish, which was Sutherland Welles wiping varnish medium sheen diluted 50% with mineral spirits and tinted slightly with LMF Lancaster maple stain. The wiping varnish is polymerized tung oil mixed with polyurethane varnish. I emphasize "polymerized" because somebody will inevitably write that they used tung oil and it took months to dry. They did not use polymerized tung oil. Anyway, here is where I am. I intend to rub back the stock again to lighten certain areas before adding any new finish.
(https://i.ibb.co/4FM1q7y/Curt-s-rifle-finish-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XWpYQbB)
(https://i.ibb.co/GpgYJhW/Curt-s-rifle-finish-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NCwD349)
(https://i.ibb.co/MM6CHPB/Curt-s-rifle-finish-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RzyDKQj)
dave
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It is great to see this project getting close to crossing the finish line. It has been fun as well as interesting to follow. Can't wait to see it finished. Nicely done Dave.
David
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INdeed!!! ;D
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Hi Folks,
I have a question. I may attempt to engrave the great seal of Vermont on the patch box lid. It is perfectly round so can be oriented in any direction. It was designed by Ira Allen and adopted in 1779. How should it be oriented. It has some lettering so should it be sideways on the lid so you can read it when looking at the gun from the side? For example, if it was hanging on a wall. Should the seal be readable from the bottom of the lid? Or should it be upside down so readable if you have the rifle in your hands about to open the lid and looking down on the side?
dave
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I would think you'd want it readable from the perspective of a viewer rather than the person holding the gun. So "sideways on the lid so you can read it when looking at the gun from the side" as you put it.
Great work as always Dave. Truly enjoy your posts and learn something from each one. Someone earlier (this thread or your other with your apprentice) mentioned your tutorials should be compiled in a book and I for one would gladly buy that if it was offered.
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Here’s how the Massachusetts seal is oriented on a Militia Musket at Old Sturbridge Village. I’d be inclined to have it sideways.
(https://i.ibb.co/xXPJRW8/80-B76599-96-F9-4286-8-EE0-5433-C5-B63768.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mb16MkF)
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Hi,
I took David's advice. Here is what I came up with. The seal designed by Ira Allen and adopted in 1779 was kind of rustic with letters that looked like inexpensive period type and images that were crudely drawn. Nonetheless, it has a real period feel and charm. It is also the design currently adopted by the state. At one point a more refined seal was adopted but was eventually replaced by the original Allen seal. I like the look. I may add banners on either side of the seal with the dates 1777 on one side and 1791 on the other. The earlier date signifies when Vermont was born as a political entity and the other is the date it became a state. Before the Revolutionary War, the Green Mountain Boys were vigilantes terrorizing settlers in Vermont from New York and they fought against vigilantes from New York. It was violent and bloody. The Rev War stopped it and was the making of Vermont. One of the great ironies is that when Seth Warner's Green Mountain Boys were adopted into the Continental Army, New York was ordered by Congress to arm them.
(https://i.ibb.co/4WTCR1n/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-engraving-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q9NhvD3)
(https://i.ibb.co/Zd1DBm5/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-engraving-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D4g29ph)
dave
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The patchbox looks really nice like that, Dave. The whole rifle is looking interesting. As with all your building series, you have done a good job and a real service to the forum in posting your explanations and pictures. Thank you.
Joe Stein
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That looks fantastic! Not the easiest of state seals to engrave I’d imagine. Bravo!
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Hi,
More engraving done. I am trying to emulate John Hills' style but not copy him. I added banners on each side of the Vermont seal indicating the dates when Vermont became a political entity separate from New Hampshire and New York, and the date it was made a state. Those dates encapsulate John Hills' life in Vermont. I also engraved the side plate with the name of the owner in the manner of John Hills. More to come soon.
(https://i.ibb.co/0cBSmzR/Curt-s-rifle-patch-box-engraving-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xDm0Xrt)
(https://i.ibb.co/kctTwyY/Curt-s-rifle-side-plate-engraving-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SvzgMxq)
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Hi,
Finished it. I think I preserved the rural feel despite refining some things relative to the original rifles. The carving behind the cheek piece is simple, partly reflects the rather crude incised lines Hills carved but embellishes them a bit. Same with the carving around the barrel tang. The staining and finish came out well and the wood really shows the figure. It has a Rice "C" weight 54 caliber barrel cut back from 44" to 41". The lock is a Chambers early Ketland lock that I modified. I case hardened the plate, cock, and top jaw and then temper blued them. I also cased the frizzen and tempered it to 375 degrees F. Trigger pull is a crisp 2.5 lbs. The rifle weighs 8lbs. The sights are high and clearly quite a bit of height will come off the front sight but I will wait until the owner and I shoot it.
(https://i.ibb.co/424ftgb/curts-rifle-finished-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YXfWQT5)
(https://i.ibb.co/4fB3f0B/curts-rifle-finished-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7z7Lz07)
(https://i.ibb.co/994NLNT/curts-rifle-finished-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6RtmxmP)
(https://i.ibb.co/Ky632z6/curts-rifle-finished-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/88MSr4M)
(https://i.ibb.co/6BXyqWk/curts-rifle-finished-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/16z04mk)
(https://i.ibb.co/G0JDvbx/curts-rifle-finished-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FKW1bjx)
(https://i.ibb.co/6NCjbBk/curts-rifle-finished-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZNDqKm0)
(https://i.ibb.co/r72cPY7/curts-rifle-finished-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f1dnRf1)
(https://i.ibb.co/CzMtn64/curts-rifle-finished-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kx9yhJz)
(https://i.ibb.co/DQ1tp92/curts-rifle-finished-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TtwkL43)
(https://i.ibb.co/7rjwWf7/curts-rifle-finished-11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5sGN80q)
(https://i.ibb.co/grKMgzC/curts-rifle-finished-12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cyncTDd)
(https://i.ibb.co/jGDqWL6/curts-rifle-finished-13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zbZC7Sn)
(https://i.ibb.co/9GdYH40/curts-rifle-finished-14.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I have to finish making a New England fowler but after that I am done with New England guns for a while.
dave
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Really nicely done, Dave…, came together beautifully! Best,
Ed
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Dave,
Thank you so much for taking the time to post this process! I, and I know many others, have followed this project from the start with greatest interest. Taking the time to photograph and write detailed descriptions like this made a long involved job even slower and harder for you. I just wanted you to know how appreciated it is! You said you wanted to share some of the details that don't often get enough attention and that's exactly what you've accomplished here. Along with building a beautiful rifle (that will surely outlive all of us) you've written a post that will instruct and help more builders in the future than you'll probably ever know.
John