AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Jerry on November 28, 2023, 02:54:02 PM
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What is a good lubricant for lock internals? Thanks, Jerry
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Hi,
Barricade works well and ordinary NAPA silicone grease. Grease those things that slide, oil those things that rotate. However, don't put lubricant on heavily and wipe off excess so it does not eventually soak into the wood in the mortise and soften it.
dave
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Hi,
Barricade works well and ordinary NAPA silicone grease. Grease those things that slide, oil those things that rotate. However, don't put lubricant on heavily and wipe off excess so it does not eventually soak into the wood in the mortise and soften it.
dave
Hi Dave,
I was planing on putting grease (RIG) on the underside of my barrel to have some protection against rust (I don't want to separate the barrel from the stock each time I clean the gun).
Do you think that would soak into the wood and soften it as you wrote in your post?
Matt
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.... Grease those things that slide, oil those things that rotate. ....
Best description of proper lubrication I've ever seen.
One thing to keep in mind about muzzleloader locks is they're exposed to black powder residue, and excess lube will absorb and collect that, and you certainly don't want that hanging around in your lock works. Keep those locks clean as well as properly lubed!!
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Synthetic motor oil.
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What Mr. Brooks said.
Gus
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I’ll add that we have found a high load molybdenum sulfide bearing grease such as Krytox to be VERY beneficial in high load areas such as where the mainspring rides on the tumbler. Not cheap, but very good.
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Mobil 1 oil for things that rotate, Mobil 1 grease for things that slide. One purchase of each and your great grandchildren will have enough for their great grandchildren.
Robby
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I also use moly. I have moly paste that was marketed for bore prep back when we moly coated bullets. It works really well on high pressure sliding surfaces.
Oil? Mostly ATF. For some things ATF with Lanolin melted in it. For rust preventions, LPS-3 when I can find it, Fluid Film also. Any modern oil is fine. I do not use lard and olive oil.
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Whichever lock lube you choose, use it sparingly.
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I’ll add that we have found a high load molybdenum sulfide bearing grease such as Krytox to be VERY beneficial in high load areas such as where the mainspring rides on the tumbler. Not cheap, but very good.
I lubricate my locks once a year (if they meed it) with a moly grease I bought many years ago. It is in a plastic tub with the name Lyman Super moly.
I use the Lyman Super Moly spray lube on my moulds to prevent lead sticking and as a release coating. I also use the spray on bullets I cast for my air rifles.
There is tape on the cap, as I split the cap 10 or 12 years ago. I use a narrow screw driver for applying the moly lube to the locks. It does not wash off
in the water as I tooth-brush off the fouling when cleaning up after shooting.
(https://i.ibb.co/mcp3gwp/Lyman-Super-Moly.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NyRMbPR)
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I have been using wd40 on rotating parts, mostly because I douse the lock with it after drying to get the water out of the books and crannies. However, this seems to lead to too much oil that I can't seem to get all of it out despite the number of q tips I use and then have oil in my lock mortise post shooting.
So I recommend NOT doing that.
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Any quality gun lubricant
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Many thanks for all the good answers! I do like the idea of a synthetic oil. Is the moly being used the black kind? Thanks, Jerry
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.... However, this seems to lead to too much oil that I can't seem to get all of it out despite the number of q tips I use and then have oil in my lock mortise post shooting. ...
I use canned air to blow it out.
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Many thanks for all the good answers! I do like the idea of a synthetic oil. Is the moly being used the black kind? Thanks, Jerry
Yes - all moly greases are black that I've seen. It does a really good job, Jerry and doesn't flush off with water, or my WD40 spraying after washing and drying.
I suppose if you purposely tried to remove it with WD40 spraying, you could succeed.
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STP
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So, what is it about a lock that requires synthetic oil? Is it the heat and filth, or maybe the interval between changes? Seriously.
Myself, I prefer a water-resistant silicone-based grease.
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i think it less about the requirements of the lock, and more about what you DO NOT want to get into the wood.
Petroleum products+wood fibers= not a good combination over time.
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I've been using RIG grease on the sliding parts, but it seems a little thin and doesn't seem to stay put very well. I also have some white lithium grease that's for bicycles that is thicker, but I'm not sure it would be better.
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Moly grease stays. That is also the grease used on the springs in "Springer" air rifles.
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So, what is it about a lock that requires synthetic oil? ....
I don't think it's a matter of "requires" because there was no such thing as synthetic oil back in the day. Maybe it's just a case of what works better in modern times than back then?
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Petroleum oil is known to saturate wood and soften/weaken it. Perhaps this "long time experience" with it, is simply lacking with synthetics.
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What about sperm whale oil? Or if all else fails try some snake oil.
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Hi,
Barricade works well and ordinary NAPA silicone grease. Grease those things that slide, oil those things that rotate. However, don't put lubricant on heavily and wipe off excess so it does not eventually soak into the wood in the mortise and soften it.
dave
Hi Dave,
I was planing on putting grease (RIG) on the underside of my barrel to have some protection against rust (I don't want to separate the barrel from the stock each time I clean the gun).
Do you think that would soak into the wood and soften it as you wrote in your post?
Matt
Since you haven’t heard back yet, I do use a very light film of RIG on the underside of pinned barrels. Just a light finger coat. I also use Renaissance wax on the barrel channel, but any decent wood wax will do. This works good for me.
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Since you haven’t heard back yet, I do use a very light film of RIG on the underside of pinned barrels. Just a light finger coat. I also use Renaissance wax on the barrel channel, but any decent wood wax will do. This works good for me.
Thanks! I'll try that. There should be some bee's wax mixture for wood laying around here somewhere...
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I use Lubriplate white lithium grease on the bearing surfaces of the lock internals and on the frizzen spring to frizzen contact point.
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I’ll add that we have found a high load molybdenum sulfide bearing grease such as Krytox to be VERY beneficial in high load areas such as where the mainspring rides on the tumbler. Not cheap, but very good.
"but very good"
explains why it's not cheap; ;D ;D
Bob Roller
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Synthetic motor oil has rust inhibitors in it. I started using in the bore but use it for everything now.
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I used to use a product called gunslick. Black greasy stuff, a little dab will do ya. Works very well too.
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What is a good lubricant for lock internals? Thanks, Jerry
Synthetic motor oil (I use it in vehicles and the small amount left is each bottle collected is then “free”) is good, it does not congeal like some conventional oils will or get really thick like a grease in the cold. Lucas makes a gun oil I like and its a little more viscous. I use just a touch of one of the synthetic gun greases on sear noses a little more on old school mainspring noses that rub on the tumber and frizzen springs without rollers.
But it takes a VERY slight amount of oil and I use a Q-Tip to remove any excess. Lubes with solvents that evaporate are not gooas they turn to grease and can gum up small parts like flys.
Something like this is a great applicator. The big bottles put out too much.
If I read the description right this is for 50 (?). But some sporting goods stores like Scheels sell emptys by the piece. Any “needle” applicator bottle will work.
https://www.amazon.com/Lucas-10879-Oil-Applicator-Empty/dp/B01D06TI1C?ref_=ast_sto_dp
I use G-96 aerosol for rust protection.
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Lucas wants $10 for an empty bottle? Yikes. You can get empty dropper bottles for a few cents. There are tons of options, do a quick search.
https://www.temu.com/50pcs-100pcs-empty-plastic-squeezable-dropper-bottles-eye-liquid-dropper-refillable-bottles-10ml-g-601099518294836.html?top_gallery_url=https%3A%2F%2Fimg.kwcdn.com%2Fproduct%2FFancyalgo%2FVirtualModelMatting%2F9f4eabc500b1e221f8162be81a81b94e.jpg&spec_gallery_id=2002117633&refer_page_el_sn=209279&_x_ads_sub_channel=shopping&_x_vst_scene=adg&_x_ns_sku_id=17592278710756&_x_ads_channel=bing&_x_gmc_account=3429411&_x_gmc_catalog=1055977&_x_ads_creative_id=82051423108543&_x_ns_device=c&_x_ads_account=176148943&_x_ns_match_type=e&_x_ns_msclkid=a03bf4cd605816eb2fa691a36653cba9&_x_ads_set=518824908&_x_ns_source=s&_x_ads_id=1312819171098960&refer_page_name=kuiper&refer_page_id=13554_1701709491491_jgzbzvp2y4&refer_page_sn=13554&_x_sessn_id=k6pzu9ej58
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832645799194.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt
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Gunslick used to come in a little tube maybe 2 inches long in every Outers gun cleaning kit.
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Leave out the acetone, not needed for our purposes. Cheap and effective, excellent penetrating oil. I converted three firearms companies to using this for all firearm purposes.
CONTENTS: Ed's Red Bore Cleaner
1 part Dexron ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, aka "Stoddard Solvent" or "Varsol"
CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent.
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.
(Optional 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, or OK to substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)
MIXING INSTRUCTIONS:
Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal, chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA approved plastic gasoline storage containers are OK. Do NOT use HDPE, which is permeable, because the acetone will slowly evaporate. Acetone in ER will attack HDPE over time, causing the container to collapse, making a heck of a mess!
Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other container to measure the other components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the lanolin into the mixture, melt this carefully in a double boiler, taking precautions against fire. Pour the melted lanolin it into a larger container, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, and stirring until it is all dissolved. I recommend diverting up to 4 ozs. per quart of the 50-50 ATF/kerosene mix to use as "ER-compatible" gun oil. This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the remaining mix.
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About 35 years ago I read an article where they tested various gun oils as well as some non-gun specific oils like 3-in-1 oil, motor oil, ATF etc. They were tested for lubricity, and viscosity at room temps as well as cold temps (hunting conditions) and rated them on their ability to reduce friction at each temp as well as ability to do so without causing excess drag due to increase viscosity in the cold. The "winner" best all round oil turned out to be 3-in-1 oil. I have been using that on all my guns, new and old ever since. HOWEVER, NONE of the oils tested, as well as NONE of the oils suggested in this thread are poor choices IMO. Probably the most practical choice is motor oil saved from the "drippings" after changing oil in your vehicle. If you run a late model GM, that requires Dexos 0W-15 (or whatever it is) that would be a wonderful choice IMO. More important, IMO that what oil you choose is what some mentioned and that is to use it SPARINGLY!!!. An actual "drop" from something like an eye dropper is TOO much unlesss you wipe off any excess. Having said that, I have to clean and oil my Grandfather clock so I looked up the proper way to do so and there is a special oil for them and in one video it was specifically mentioned to NOT use 3-in-1 oil on clock movements. I just found that interesting and ordered a small bottle of oil specific for grandfather clocks. For rust prevention, fluid film (wool wax) is hard to beat. It was suggested t me years ago by a friend that retired from a job working on boats on salt water. said that fluid film was what they used for rust prevention on all of their tools and equipment on the boats. Figured that if it works under those conditions it should work well on guns. Spray it on, wipe off the excess and you can store a lock or barrel or whatever in the white for years and will not get ANY rust. That has been my experience with it.
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Very interesting Cody.
This may not be best, but in the MLAGB, water pump grease was used for the barrel channel on the P '53 and variants, where the barrel was left in the stock, or for any pinned barrel not regularly removed. No rust could form out of sight, as this grease stays put.
In a bit more recent times, the Brit military used grease that is (I forget its name ) but is identical to Castrol LM, wheel bearing grease for barrel channel etc.
Same specs exactly.
I buy only Moly grease for my farm machinery, so locks get a trace of that on sliding areas.
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I’ll add that we have found a high load molybdenum sulfide bearing grease such as Krytox to be VERY beneficial in high load areas such as where the mainspring rides on the tumbler. Not cheap, but very good.
I used Krytox grease in the aerospace business. It was good for what we used it for. Would I buy it just for greasing a lock - most likely not as there are other greases out there that will do a good job at a far better price. I got enough different types of grease to last 5 lifetimes. ;)
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I’ll add that we have found a high load molybdenum sulfide bearing grease such as Krytox to be VERY beneficial in high load areas such as where the mainspring rides on the tumbler. Not cheap, but very good.
I used Krytox grease in the aerospace business. It was good for what we used it for. Would I buy it just for greasing a lock - most likely not as there are other greases out there that will do a good job at a far better price. I got enough different types of grease to last 5 lifetimes. ;)
Let me know what other molybdenum sulfide bearing greases that would be good to try if you don't mind. I believe we use Krytox 215. I've not tried very many greases, but none have done as well as this. Saving a few bucks would be good!
From another perspective, a little tube of this will last a couple of lifetimes, so the cost for a consumer isn't that great.
Jim
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Jim - this is what I use in my locks.
(https://i.ibb.co/Kz5SXt5/Lyman-Super-Molly-Bore-Cream.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z1f7VQf)
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I have a some of this,
https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-cleaning/gun-oils-lubricants/moly-bore-treatment-paste/
For high pressure applications, like a slip slide mainspring on a tumbler, it works the best of all my lubes. It is like moly mud. The moly seems to almost plate the steel.
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There have been a number of references to using automotive engine oil to lubricate firearms. I think automotive engine oil is a particularly poor choice. Automotive engine oils are detergent oils. Detergent oils are formulated to hold contaminants in suspension. Not what I would want lubricating my moving parts. Non detergent two stroke oil and probably hydraulic oil and ATF would, in my opinion, be much better choices.
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I use Mobil 1 full synthetic to oil my lock internals. I apply it with a toothpick, sometimes a q tip, the toothpick allows me to put it just where I want it in a small quantity. I use a grease used for fishing reels on the sliding parts. I use it because I had it handy in the house.
I wax all outside surfaces with Johnsons paste wax on all my guns. I no longer grease my barrel channels as it's not needed.
I've been using this process over 10 years now with no problems with rust or speed in my locks.
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I have a some of this,
https://www.brownells.com/tools-cleaning/gun-cleaning/gun-oils-lubricants/moly-bore-treatment-paste/
For high pressure applications, like a slip slide mainspring on a tumbler, it works the best of all my lubes. It is like moly mud. The moly seems to almost plate the steel.
That is what this V- thick moly grease from Lyman does.
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I think any molybdenum sulphide grease for high pressure applications would work pretty good, Pick the grease from the manufacturer who's writeup sounds the best. It depends if moving, rubbing, friction parts are polished, well fitting or have pin point loads like on the tumbler and main spring and frizzen spring, and correct hardness of lock parts.
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One thing for sure Im on many Forums - not just firearms when it comes to oil threads most chime in with products having no formulation for the posters advised application. Rest my case Gun oil - not Mobil 1 , Rotella , Henrys hot Sauce . For high stiction formulated gun lube .