AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: dmadacsi on December 23, 2023, 06:50:36 PM

Title: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: dmadacsi on December 23, 2023, 06:50:36 PM
Hi, I'm looking for information about this long rifle I inherited many years ago. It belonged to my grandfather but I believe he purchased it at some point as opposed to it being a family heirloom. I'm not well versed in muzzleloaders but have used the opportunity to research this as a learning opportunity as well so I welcome any educational aspect to your comments. Hoping to learn about the age and make and origin of the gun. In my research I seem to make progress and reach one conclusion only to discover something else that takes me to a different conclusion. Hence why I decided to ask the experts here for your opinions. Thank you for taking the time to have a look at my pictures below and help me learn more as well.
(https://i.ibb.co/LdyQFTb/7-E59-B279-B5-DA-4-B57-AFFE-B95851167-A3-D-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VYGH1Fr)

(https://i.ibb.co/chpChYQ/9-DEE7654-D1-E9-44-D8-81-A4-19661-BFFC6-C3-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m5YX5N4)

(https://i.ibb.co/HXRPT6W/E97-B39-B1-F8-A9-44-F1-8-F5-F-2-E1459261241-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7bBptPw)

(https://i.ibb.co/9GKX1L1/2640-F392-FFC1-4929-BA67-6856-C942-C6-C0-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1byVP5P)

(https://i.ibb.co/qRz44Sr/95-F46-C06-B7-D3-4-FCF-82-E2-861-E6-E66604-F-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y8DMM9Q)

(https://i.ibb.co/H7ZBsP7/84325780-951-E-4-EA5-98-BC-1-A58-A58-FF84-F-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PxkFnWx)

(https://i.ibb.co/Vmc1MQm/F0-F666-FA-2806-456-D-9259-22-BCE28-F86-EC-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ySc9gYS)

(https://i.ibb.co/pht3B2h/63-E430-B7-8435-4-E19-8381-B0-BE025-F9-DFF-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2ZDj1qZ)

(https://i.ibb.co/ByCQX70/785-BBDD1-8-FB1-46-E2-A05-E-F951793-DF8-E0-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fkxyhKj)

(https://i.ibb.co/GFKV2PT/CB5-CEE2-D-6305-46-DF-B48-D-672-F4-C16744-B-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9GFqTYt)

(https://i.ibb.co/C5bXs6V/CEC4743-D-0-C49-4-A9-A-945-D-CEC4-BBA56-D1-E-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SXt17cV)

(https://i.ibb.co/YR0Hn80/EF26058-C-3-A1-D-4161-889-D-20-D799-C95015-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NVTcDpT)

(https://i.ibb.co/PwnzqFN/A51506-C1-8410-484-B-B763-AA4165-A2-A153-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zGYHqQr)

(https://i.ibb.co/gdWYywD/4-C8-CA7-D2-A426-4-A8-A-97-E7-A430-A86-AB107-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YXdg28t)

(https://i.ibb.co/6F5NZmf/6715-CDC7-61-AA-4-FA1-B845-B31340-CC00-F5-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gJC673B)

(https://i.ibb.co/BKK8TVq/79-F5-A751-4-BAB-47-DB-92-E8-2202070421-E3-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zHHKPhG)

(https://i.ibb.co/Z2w43x1/98-F98662-38-B9-463-D-B78-C-C36526-BA0-AC1-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wcbGT4r)

(https://i.ibb.co/zfSrgDy/1535-B390-453-C-4033-8-BC6-8156-F7560532-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7yGXDLw)
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: JPK on December 23, 2023, 08:58:46 PM
To start you off, it’s a fowler or what we now call a shotgun. These old guns are often found loaded so check that out soon.
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: dmadacsi on December 23, 2023, 11:32:47 PM
Great, yes I thought it probably was. Any indication as to what the date and origin might be? I was thinking maybe it was converted from flint lock from a few things I read. Also noted some things in common with Dutch but then some with Belgian. But maybe its American.
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: Mike Brooks on December 24, 2023, 02:46:56 AM
I'd say Belgian. Stock appears to be euro walnut. 1850-60-70-ish?
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: dmadacsi on December 27, 2023, 05:55:32 PM
Do you think this would have been a conversion or built as a percussion cap originally? By the way I can see a coil spring inside when I pull back the hammer.
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: Mike Brooks on December 27, 2023, 06:31:56 PM
Percussion. There shouldn't be a coil spring in that lock.
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: dmadacsi on December 27, 2023, 10:20:45 PM
Here are a couple pics of what looks like a coil spring.
(https://i.ibb.co/9wZ8JP2/7-CA2-C510-6-BBA-43-C2-AB4-D-DFCD46-A5592-E-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mvNDmpt)

(https://i.ibb.co/XtvPNTN/6-DA1-A940-6015-4364-8-C04-C6-A1-D5-C06546-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KW3gRHR)

(https://i.ibb.co/D8fzBN8/C2-BACAE7-135-B-4-FF9-A414-1-E15-E3-B60-DEF-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4YRKbcY)
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: Mike Brooks on December 27, 2023, 10:29:27 PM
Take the lock off and have a look. Takes all of 30 seconds.
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: JTR on December 28, 2023, 03:08:01 AM
Looks like the threads on the lock bolt to me.
But, yeah take the lock off and take a look.
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: dmadacsi on December 28, 2023, 05:20:00 AM
Thank you both. Yes, in the end I got up the courage to take the whole thing apart. It was indeed threads and I found some marks on the under side of the barrel. Trying to research those but please find pictures below.
(https://i.ibb.co/FKhNtnJ/16-B75-CFF-82-E1-48-E6-8883-98-D1641827-C5-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G0dBjFk)

(https://i.ibb.co/nCdKNcH/9775-CFDA-2-C12-494-D-AA3-B-F3-B716-BB59-E8-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rs8XR6C)

(https://i.ibb.co/LYqxtDP/9-B52-B9-CD-76-A7-4-BBD-8595-9370-FA3388-FF-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fqKkpVS)

(https://i.ibb.co/tbrqypx/2-C720-EAA-B70-A-4787-87-D0-B8-E4-DBA7-EF22-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zSvXKV7)
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: dmadacsi on December 29, 2023, 12:03:27 AM
Here are a few with maybe better definition.
(https://i.ibb.co/RCTpn32/57-EE7-F11-DB23-4-DA2-BC19-BEB07-B06955-B-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wKhNHSy)

(https://i.ibb.co/v1TY8RC/510-F855-C-FDAE-4-FC4-A2-AB-64-EBBB72-E2-C1-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R2syWdG)

(https://i.ibb.co/TkbC4GB/71075-F73-BC73-48-F5-9836-E67-E71-B6075-E-1-105-c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s26BK4v)
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: bluenoser on December 29, 2023, 02:59:46 AM
The "10" would be the bore size.  A 10 bore or gauge would be about .775".
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: dmadacsi on December 29, 2023, 06:53:58 AM
ok cool, yes that makes sense. good eye as well - i thought it was only an 0. Any thoughts on the others?
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: bluenoser on December 29, 2023, 11:24:27 PM
Three things that might make the other marks more legible:
Wet the area and then pat the surface dry.  Accumulated moisture in the marks sometimes makes them more legible.
or
Work some chalk into the marks and wipe any overflow off the surrounding surface.
or
Try shining a strong directional light on the surface at different shallow angles with no other light shining on it.
Title: Re: Help identifying this rifle
Post by: dmadacsi on December 30, 2023, 09:54:04 PM
Unfortunately,I've already put it all back together. When I next find some time i will try that with the chalk. Thank you for the suggestion.