AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: L.H. Smoke Poll on March 11, 2024, 03:25:13 AM
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Hey all, New here, been occupying some time over on the rifle builders forum
Joe S. suggested I bring my question over here as to the Title of the post.
What barrels are you guy's using, what type of yardage are you shooting at and accuracy ?.
Ball and patch shooting is what I want to stay with.
My first build will be a Rice 42" Swamped barrel. .54 Caliber.
Looking forward to some information.
Thanks.
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This can be a real can-o-worms. It starts with the definition of accuracy. Accurate to some is keeping your shots on a steel gong while others might say clover leaf groups at a certain yardage. Gentelmen, start your volly. 😁
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Sure, I understand that/
So I'll restate this
Accuracy in distance, Target paper Hunting shooting inside the last hole you shot accuracy
How many yards out has someone taken a Elk or a deer?.
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(https://i.ibb.co/j8HjRnw/DSC03160.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GdFrTzM)
(https://i.ibb.co/pvDKsnX/DSC03779.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWyCh3B) 100yrds groups
50yrd groups
(https://i.ibb.co/WPgbWQY/DSC03040.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1d8Df3w)
(https://i.ibb.co/g732DzR/DSC03384.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PYNL5w6)
(https://i.ibb.co/yhVRpbV/DSC03775.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n3R0B5R)
(https://i.ibb.co/KGhGjyC/DSC03411.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YWQW7jv)
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Good shooting. Thanks.
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A 58 cal perc. 1-75 rot 110 gr 2f Goex 7.5 " 5 shot 130 yd string measure around outside of group/ Same gun/load 155 yd called shot on full size northern deer. A 58 cal flint 110 gr swiss 2f 135 yd shot on full size northern deer 1-72 A different 58 flint same load 110 yd shot on a 180 lb northern WT buck 1-70 One Moose at 80 yds A different 58 cal perc 110 gr 2fGoex 110 yd shot on Pronghorn Buck 1-66 These were my longest shots on game. Top 58 was my 200 Meter Silhouette gun All game shots were rested shots with younger eyes.
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If I have to take a shot at an elk or a deer with a muzzleloader over 50 yards I feel I'm doing a lousy job of hunting.
Shortest shot on elk 20 yards, longest 95 yards., average out of 8 is 40 yards. All with 54 calibers both cap and flint 95 grain 2f with the flint and 100 grains 2f with the cap. I've shot deer with a variety of calibers from .45 to .61, longest shot was an Eastern whitetail at 90 yards shortest was about 30 yards.
Don't really need a bench accuracy capable rifle to kill game. A rifle capable of keeping the ball in a 6 inch circle of a rest, is more than adequate.
The question is not the rifle but the shooter.
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Sorry for any confusion folks, I'm trying to learn what a .54 caliber is capable of shoot with accuracy at a distance.
So Yardage, what is anyone ever shot a target at (Yardage, with accuracy.
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I'm limited by my sights more than any other factor. About 75 yards on deer sized targets with open iron sights. 50 yards is better.
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I'm not a target shooter so once I get a load dialed in it never sees paper again. 31 inch .54 Douglas barrel. 1:66 twist. 90 grains of Swiss 2F. Measured 65 yard behind the ear headshot on a doe.
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What is your definition of accuracy? I know a lot of people who use a 54 for cross six matches out to 100
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OK, let's try this, this way.....
how many of you guy's feel the capability to shoot beyond 100 yards.
anyone shoot further than 100, 200, or more.
If so, what are you using to achieve this distance.
Accuracy is hitting the target/ subject you're aiming at with proficiency
so in this case I'm trying to find out what is the capability of this rifle
.54 Caliber 42" barrel
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It will depend on your definition of accuracy, but prior to a host of other time-consuming projects I was dialing in a .54 rifle with 42" swamped Rice barrel.
I was getting temporary "paper plate" accuracy at 100 yards. When I say temporary, it is because after half a dozen or so shots, my POI would start to drop relative to my POA, and I never got around to chasing that issue that down before life caused me to shelve that project. That said, if I were keeping all my rounds on a paper plate at 100 yards without the vertical stringing creeping in after 6-10 shots, I'd have been satisfied and wouldn't have considered any further adjustments. But paper plate accuracy at 100 yards with very little development effort tells me that barring a manufacturing defect, .54 caliber, 42" Rice barrels are capable of very good accuracy (a data set of 1 obviously, but I think that assuming Rice barrels are manufactured to a consistent standard is a safe assumption to make), and that, eliminating some inconsistencies, I could have been achieving better accuracy and settling for keeping them on a paper plate at 100 yards would be settling for less than the rifle is capable of. Your mileage may vary, but I think now that ease of loading, not having to develop a consistent swabbing routine, etc, ie any factor but the absolute accuracy that the rifle/barrel are capable of, should be very distant considerations.
As an aside, I was at the time using a .530 roundball, can't recall the patch thickness, but it was overall a less than bore-sized load, and even so that barrel presented a decent initial group as mentioned. When I pick that rifle (or any rifle, life permitting) up again, I'd start with a bore-sized or even slightly over-bore-sized patch and ball, probably a straight .54 roundball.
EDIT with regards to your clarification, 100 yards was the maximum distance I had available. But with fairly promising preliminary results at 100 -- while I can't say from personal experience, I would not hesitate to expect good accuracy at 150 or 200 yards if you have the opportunity to practice and develop loads at those distances.
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This is just me. I have one rifle, a 50-caliber flintlock, that I have shot cloverleaf groups with off a bench at 50 yards. Using that rifle I have killed deer in the field at approximately that range. I have also completely missed a deer at approximately 90 yards using a monopod rest. My current thinking is to not shoot at any more beyond 75 yards while hoping they all show up at 50 yards. 1 in 48 twist 80 grains of 2F. It is my opinion that the rifle will consistently shoot the cloverleaf groups. It is my thinking that I can't.
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You seem to be concerned with the guns performance at a given range. Actually your performance is usually the real question. I would say around a hundred yards is not only the point where you have to start using Kentucky windage, but also where the velocity has bled off to the point that if you are not dead on a vital part of the animal you’re likely to be in for some serious tracking.
A fellow club member is an avid big game hunter with modern firearms, but decided he wanted to try his hand at taking big game with a muzzleloader. He decided his maximum range would be 200 yards. I told him at 200 yards it wasn’t about accuracy, it was about velocity, and penetration, and if he didn’t believe me to go to our range, and run some tests. He did and came back and said his gun was a hundred yard gun.
Hungry Horse
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Some years back (decades?) we had a 200yard postal match here at ALR. There were only 3 entries. Taylor, myself and George? the originator. Sorry, I cannot remember his "handle". Guess that
was a long time ago, maybe 2008?
In warming up for the match, both Taylor and I managed a 5 shot group at 200yards from a bench-rest, of 2 1/2". Flukes? Probably. Both of us were shooting round balls and 2F GOEX powder.
He used a .62 Hawken of his own make, with 34" 66" ROT, a .615" ball and 10 ounce denim patch, which at that time, measured .0225" thick. He also used WindshieldWasherFluid+ a tich of Neetsfoot oil over 127gr. 2F GOEX.
I used my .69 cal. Sporting Rifle, 31" bl. with 66" ROT, .682" ball and 12 ounce denim (.030") with the same WWWF lube and 140gr. 2F GOEX.
The contest was 2 different positions, but no bench. Interesting shoot. The .69 won the match. We shoot without wiping or swabbing the bore at any time.
At that time, I had a 300yard leaf on the rear sight. We used to have a 24" saw blade gong at 300 yards and used that during rendezvous, once a year. I filed that sight for that target. Shooting
at it was always done standing/offhand. Everyone who shot at that gong with my rifle, hit it. Never a miss (4 of us) but no one would shoot it twice. That was back in the late 1980's. Nowadays, the rifle only has sights for 100, 150 and 200meters with the hunting load. With the plinking load of only 85gr. of 2F, the sights zero at 50, 100 and 150.
The bore has slicked up enough after over 5,000 shots, that I can get by with a 10 ounce denim. This new material measures .021". The rifle is still shooting well and winning the odd match.
These are photos Taylor took of me shooting my little rifle, at the 200yard match. This was the standing position we used.
The first pic. is aiming at the 200yard target. The second caught the recoil almost at the peak of travel. That was with 140gr. which was dead on at 200yards. My moose load of 165gr. was dead on at 200 meters with that sight blade(3-blade and standing sight.)
(https://i.ibb.co/Lk6d0S5/Forend-Tip.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8K2gmMc)
(https://i.ibb.co/8bpZX8f/aiming.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5kyH2cS)
(https://i.ibb.co/PT2vZ1s/aiming-n-shooting-140gr.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FsQLb8k)
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As you can see Smoke Poll, you came to the right place for this discussion. I think the, your milage varys is a great point. Every one of these folks put enough lead down field to figure out what works for them and a particular rifle. I would take what they say as a starting point, when you get that rifle built, then the other adventure begins, the first being the build. You get, after range time what works best for you, type of powder, patch type,thickness, lube,swab, no swab and on...work up that load, all this is the fun part of the journey. You being 54 cal.specific, folks can tell you what works best for them but ultimately, every one of these rifles is different and will be diet specific ;)
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Yes Sir, and thanks guy's much appreciated.
That was the general Idea behind the question for sure
to get a foundation of what works, for the most part.
Been shooting enough over the years to know
different rifles like different powder bullets, ect.
Again thanks everyone. Just gather intel.
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As far as range goes in hunting, your capabilities, excitability and your load's ability all come into determining what your maximum range should be.
Some people are highly excitable when they have an animal in their sights, while others only get excited after the animal is down. Taylor and I both
fall into that second group and I am talking an extreme level excitement.
Lt. James Forsyth wrote, in 1860 (published in 1862) that he 'once killed a sambar stag (Indian Deer) at a range of 250yards using his 14 bore rifle.
The ball passed through both shoulders. The load was a "mere 3 drams", which is only 82gr. of #6 Curtis and Harvey's best. I chronographed a similar
load in my 14 bore rifle (.69) using GOEX 3F and it developed 1,225fps. Later, using 85gr. GOEX 2F, I chronographed a vel. of 1,240fps. Having multiple
leaf sights and actually practicing at those ranges, helps in skill and confidence. It also shows you what you and your gun are capable of. I do not sug-
gest shooting animals at extended ranges, but know full well, my "little" rifle and I am fully capable to 150yards or so. I also use a laser rangefinder
on all shots on game. My moose have been closer than that, every time. During the last week of Sept. and 1st week of October, bulls can be called in to
inside 20 yards, in many cases & to 100yards, even with the younger, 1 1/2year old bulls(2 pointers).
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Thanks Daryl.
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Back in 2013-2015 I did some fairly extensive shooting with an original Dickert out to 400 yards. As best I recall, bore was about .49 caliber, load was 80-85 grains of FFg (whatever load gave me around 1850fps with a particular lot of powder), patch was .014" linen lubed with neatsfoot oil, ball was around .469-.470. Twist was 1:48-"ish". Depending on winds, I could usually get a 16"-18" ten-shot group offhand at 200 yards. Using a standing rest at 300 yards, I usually got ten-shot groups about 24" high and 4'-5' wide. I don't recall ever shooting a ten-shot group at 400 yards, I think I regarded it as futile.
I've played with the same course with a few other rifles over the years, am starting that with the kit gun I put together to teach an introductory class in flintlocks. Barrel is 43" (IIRC), twist is 1:70 (again, IIRC), bore is .54 caliber (at least I"m sure of that!). My current load (not the load my students use) is typically 110-120 FFg (again, whatever load gives me ~1850 with a particular lot of powder), .016" cotton patch lubed with neatsfoot oil, .534" ball.
I haven't played with shooting for groups at longer ranges yet, still "plinking" at IPSC silhouettes at 200/300/400 yards. On those (counting any hit on the silhouette) from a modified prone I'm getting about ~90% hits at 200 yards, ~60% hits at 300 yards, and ~20% at 400 yards. Interestingly enough, if I drop ball size to .530" and bump the powder charge about 7 grains, my hit percentages are about the same.
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Great information. Much appreciated, as well as someone who like to practice distant shooting.
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I had a 36" barreled .54 caliber that I deer hunted with. I have taken deer quartering with complete pass through at 125 yards. I once shoot on paper at 200 yards and with my 100 yard sights had to hold over @ 3 ft to get them on paper. I thought it too risky to shot at animals at that distance, But with the 100 grain powder charge figured that 150 yards was my maximum distance if all was in my favor with open woods and essentially no wind. Even then I was dubious and never attempted to shoot that far on game. At 125 I knew I was good. Most game killed was 40-100 yards. As stated previously penetration is key and extreme distances are working against you.
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I have used a .50 caliber flintlock with a Getz round bottom rifled barrel for most hunting and much "shooting". Longest shot was 120 +/- yards on an antelope. Kind of hard to get much closer to their evil eyes. Multiple elk from 20 to 60-70 yards. Most other hunting shots were 60 yards or less. Best competition targets were shot off of cross sticks on NMLRA targets. At 50 yards on the large bull 50-4X and at 100 yards on the large bull 49X. Wish I could still see like I used to. As far as long shots on game, why not put the "hunt" back in hunting and get up close and personal.
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Not stating that I'm going hunting for 400 yards out.
Again just trying to learn what these are capable pf doing.
Been Hunting and shooting for over 50 years, I don't take a shot unless I know it's going to drop where I shot it, or pretty close by.
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Check out YouTube, Idaho Lewis. He uses stock TC rifles for the most part and has some very impressive results.
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I shoot 100 yard bench ffg I yet to shoot my Kibler 45 cal sincerely hoping the rifle is accurate out of the box other than sight . I find most SHOOTERS need to work on skill set & less on Barrel Length and Twist ,load & such . I would also give my subjective opinion being a new member & knowing absolutely nothing I talk of , I have seen some very fine Shooting on this board .
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J.M Browning I agree that one needs to work on their rifle, shot, load patch practice ect...
But to me I'm looking for say a combination, or a setup so to speak like a .54 caliber 42" barrel.
I realize the variables with in those parameters, and the rest is up to me, my ability to shoot.
That being said I'm not buying a .32 squirrel rifle in hopes to shoot well enough to hunt Elk with it one day.
I want to know what's going to do the job, the rest I'll have to work on.
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Shooting longer ranges, accurately, cannot be done reliably, without the proper sighting equipment, imho.
Here is an express sight, similar to the one on my rifle, but as received, not "filed in" for specific ranges.
Brownell's is where I bought mine, in 1986. AFAIK, they still sell them.
(https://i.ibb.co/LhbbBmy/Express-Sight-Blank.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Here is the rear sight on Taylor's Joseph Lang rifle, built around 1853.
(https://i.ibb.co/FHByZpw/DSCN2162.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z6SB9dR)
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Thanks Daryl, I will look those up.
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look at these
https://thegunworks.com/shop/custom-gun-building-parts/sights/rear-sights/rear-sight-folding-leaf/
https://thegunworks.com/shop/custom-gun-building-parts/sights/rear-sights/rear-sight-folding-leaf-english/
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Thanks Recurve, was having trouble finding them.
Do you know what the 3 leaf sight is for yardage?.
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I think you will have to file each leaf down to the yardage you want AFTER you find your best load. ;)
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Sure I understand that, but they must have made them with a yardage in mind.
I just couldn't tell if if there were any numbers on them from the photos.
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Sure I understand that, but they must have made them with a yardage in mind.
I just couldn't tell if if there were any numbers on them from the photos.
No, there is no preset because barrels come in many configurations and everyone develops their own loads with a muzzleloader. This is not an acccessory for a standard “model” of gun.
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OH, OK, Thanks Rich
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OK, let's try this, this way.....
how many of you guy's feel the capability to shoot beyond 100 yards.
anyone shoot further than 100, 200, or more.
If so, what are you using to achieve this distance.
Accuracy is hitting the target/ subject you're aiming at with proficiency
so in this case I'm trying to find out what is the capability of this rifle
.54 Caliber 42" barrel
I would have to have peeps or a scope to shoot accurately at that distance. It has nothing to do with caliber , twist or barrel length. I don't see well enough to shoot at that distance anymore.
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I understand what you're stating about your eye sight, but to state that barrel length load twist ect has nothing to do with it I can not agree with.
Like saying it doesn't mater which motor I use to drag race.
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For deer, I’d need a rest and a standing broadside deer to feel confident. Beyond that, I’d need to practice more at 125 yards to take shots at that range and be very sure of the distance. Because of velocity and ballistics of round balls in a muzzleloader, being off by 30-40 yards could lead to a badly placed shot. I once shot a deer at 130 yards over snow in an open field because she looked so clear and large, I thought it was 100 yards. Follow up shot required.
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I understand what you're stating about your eye sight, but to state that barrel length load twist ect has nothing to do with it I can not agree with.
Like saying it doesn't mater which motor I use to drag race.
You are talking about accuracy potential. What criteria gives the VERY BEST POTENTIAL for accurate shooting at longer ranges. Seems to me, the bench-rest .69 calibre muzzleloading
underhammer heavy rifles used with false muzzles and powder charges up to 300gr. have the best potential to shoot with the best accuracy at longer ranges, 200yards and beyond.
My own hunting rifle's accuracy remained the same with power charges up to 200gr. I did not test for accuracy beyond that, and settled on 165gr. as the most accurate load for the rifle.
That was back in 1986 when the rifle was built. When shooting the 200yard match I noted on page 1 of this thread, I found that 140gr. of this newer GOEX gave me the same accuracy
as the older powder produced, but with 165gr.
I do not know the rate of twist of those benchrest rifles in .69 calibre. I would suggest somewhere in the 90" rate of twist range. This rifling would require more powder than would be comfortable
in a sporting rifle imho, to give their BEST accuracy.
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Not stating that I'm going hunting for 400 yards out.
Again just trying to learn what these are capable pf doing.
Been Hunting and shooting for over 50 years, I don't take a shot unless I know it's going to drop where I shot it, or pretty close by.
Dropping a deer in its tracks generally requires at shock to or interruption of the nervous system. Sir William Drummond Stewart reported that Mule Deer were harder to stop with his 20 bore rifle (a Manton IIRC) than an Elk. He also stated he killed more game with less lead than any rifle at Rendezvous. But he might not have been as hung over either. In my experience shot placement trumps caliber.
It takes an experienced ML shooter to kill past 120 yards with traditional ML of 50-54 caliber. And wind can be a serious drawback to this. I seldom shoot at game standing if I can avoid it. Caliber depends of the game hunted. 50 cal is near perfect for deer and will kill larger animals but for Elk, for example, I like something bigger. But few American traditional stock designs after 1790-1800 are good for bores over 54. Some of the early large buttplate rifles are good. A carry over from the large bore German rifles.
Twist? I suspect that an honest look at original American rifles will show them to be 48” and for “American” calibers this, all comments aside, is a good twist for a PRB. Daryl has proven that even a 69 caliber does not need a 72” twist if I recall the twist rate correctly. Still a round ball will stabilize and shoot very well at low rotational speeds. I have a 62 caliber barrel with a 48 twist that I should have tested for patch integrity before I cut 2 pistol barrels off it. But I got lazy…. The typical Kentucky generally had a “4 foot” barrel. Something in the 42” plus range. The Barnett, Wilson and Grice trade rifles imported for use by the British Indian allies during the Revolution had barrels in the 43-46” length and one turn in the barrel length according to DeWitt Bailey in “British Military Flintlock Rifles”.
I have a 30” 8 groove .67 caliber barrel, .008 deep, narrow lands. And it shows abrading of the patch at the lands but they do not fail. This is with 140gr of ff Swiss. The thing about larger RBs is they have a lot of rotational inertia so if twisted too fast with a high acceleration rate the patch may (will) fail. I think if this rifle .010-.012” grooves it would be better in regard to the patches as would a 10 or 12 groove. But I cannot imagine it being more accurate.
I have a 66” twist 54 Douglas that shot into 6” at 200 yards 5-6 shots with a peep sight shooting from a lawn chair and a pickup tailgate for a rest.
Remember that in testing by the British Army in Feb 1800 the Baker proved the most accurate at 300 yards. It had a twist close to 10 feet and was a .65 caliber in this case. There was a mistaken belief by some that the slower twist would give better velocity. Not sure this would stand a modern test. And Europe at least and in Britain in many cases it was thought proper to make the rifling 1 turn in the length of the barrel even after the Bakers adoption. This continued until the end of the ML rifle according to Forsythe in “The Sporting Rifle and Its Projectiles”. They even developed the 2 groove barrel and belted ball to allow heavier charges with the fast twist. The use of fast twists in “standard” rifling forms resulted in many hunters in Africa and India using smoothbores since they could not get rifle accuracy from a fast twist rifle (the rifles used generally had barrels under 30”) at the velocity for the needed penetration on large dangerous game. But in England they were generally loading charges more like that used in a shotgun and the fast twist was OK.
If I were going to shoot to 200 yards in a rest match I would want a tight ball fit and a good charge of powder. Larger balls 66-72, have a better BC and will buck the wind slightly better than a 54 would but they will all require a number of wind flags to make a good score. Even really large RB like a 4 bore will likely have a BC that starts with a .1 at best. And wind drift, from what I have read, is the result of the TIME the bullet loses going to the target compared to shooting it the same distance in a vacuum. And RBs balls lose a lot of time with an atmosphere.
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Years ago, Taylor built a huge underhammer cap-lock gun for a fellow. It had a 1" bore (4 bore) and was smooth inside and octagonal. I don't know where the barrel came from, but this 51 pound gun looked just like a Billinghurst or Werner U/H match rifle of the later 1800's.
It was not rifled. We shot it at the 300 meter range at the club and it appeared were were able to get about a 2 1/2' to 3' "group"/Pattern. It moved a lot of dirt, each shot.
The gun recoiled 12" when it went off. Did not matter how much "shoulder" you put into it, it moved 12" each time. I think were were shooting something like 400gr. of powder.
We did not shoot it standing. ;)
The barrel was a good 2 1/2" across the flats. I have a picture of it, but that would not be allowed here.
The larger the bore, the better potential in the gun for longer range accuracy.
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If I have to take a shot at an elk or a deer with a muzzleloader over 50 yards I feel I'm doing a lousy job of hunting.
Shortest shot on elk 20 yards, longest 95 yards., average out of 8 is 40 yards. All with 54 calibers both cap and flint 95 grain 2f with the flint and 100 grains 2f with the cap. I've shot deer with a variety of calibers from .45 to .61, longest shot was an Eastern whitetail at 90 yards shortest was about 30 yards.
Don't really need a bench accuracy capable rifle to kill game. A rifle capable of keeping the ball in a 6 inch circle of a rest, is more than adequate.
The question is not the rifle but the shooter.
Depends on where you live/hunt.
(https://i.ibb.co/R0Hks4m/P1020761.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T8hx7qS)
(https://i.ibb.co/54sYzDB/16-bore-blood-trail.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6wDvphg)
(https://i.ibb.co/PNzKNmn/IMGP0054.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HVp6VFs)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZmBRh27/P1000946.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gVSbD4h)
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Dang hit the wrong button. I have walked to within 20 yards of bedded whitetails, 2 years ago and shot one. I have shot deer pretty close and I have killed deer past 120 yards on rare occasion. Antelope? You can look at them with binos from a mile away and see them looking back at you. If you get a 50 yards shot you know how to use terrain and/or you got lucky. The Antelope phot was the day I missed one. The grass , I was prone or sitting don’t remember which and I goofed to hold looking through and over the grass. Should have held down IN the grass that covered most of his chest. I have stalked and shot mule deer at 50-60 yards or less using terrain. Once “walking” on my knees in about 14” of snow 100 yards or so to stay under the crest. I hunt wide open prairie to brushy creek bottoms to timbered and “timber locked” mountains. Fresh snow walked within 20 yards of a cow elk but they had changes the season that year and I could not shoot a cow where I was >:(. Did this at least 4 times all less than 50 yards over the years but could not see the bull in the timber if there was one. But sometimes they hear you coming and fade. I did stalk and kill a cow at about 60+ yards in the timber. If you hunt in the West you need to sight your ML for 1” high at 100 yards and shoot about 1/2 ball weight of powder in a 50-54. This will give you a point blank of about 120 yards. In the East things are different for the most part and ranges are closer.
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Antelope? You can look at them with binos from a mile away and see them looking back at you. If you get a 50 yards shot you know how to use terrain and/or you got lucky.
Same with sheep here.
Up here, this is moose country. At times you can call them in to within 10 yards, other times, it's a 120 yard shot - or 170(lasered) yards by a fellow with a .54.
1 shot was all it took and believe me, it was an exceptionally lucky shot as the hunter could not put 5 consecutive shots onto a target at 100yards, from a rest.
I was not guiding him or he wouldn't have made an attempt. The ball passed through the heart and both lungs, lodging against the hide on the far side. Lucky hit.
But, this shows the round ball is not as useless as some people think.
(https://i.ibb.co/LkP8kCS/P9280353.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zn5rnSs)
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As Daryl mentioned the RB is often unappreciated. “Moderns” are too impressed with elongated projectiles. They have their purposes. But not in a traditional ML for hunting. If we read in the right places. Taylor, Forsythe, W.W. Greener, Baker and Selous for that matter. We find that conicals were tried and pretty much abandoned for hunting. Sir Samuel Baker had a bullet made for his 6 bore belted ball “stopping” rifle and it got him into such “scrapes” (with African Elephant) that he abandoned it with a ball the rifle “never failed to floor a charging Elephant”. Selous, who was using smooth 4 bores that were far too light to hunt Elephant stated that while he wished he had never used them due to their recoil effecting his shooting all his life, stated that “the drove better than anything he ever used”. Taylor in “Pondoro” tells of killing 13 “good bulls (African Elephant) and some Rhino with a 10 bore smooth, hardened balls and 167 gr of powder. He was an ivory hunter and his ammunition for his modern rifles was misdirected and he borrowed the 10 bore so he could kill enough ivory to keep himself alive. He said he would not have wanted to face a charge with the 10 bore but that he never lost an animal he shot with it. If a 10 bore, 75 caliber IIRC, will reliably kill a 8000-10000 pound animal with a chest shot how can a 50 or 54 caliber ball fail on something weighing 5 or 10% of that weight?
But the advent of the TC Hawken and the “Maxi-Ball” resulted in all sorts of trash being written by “gun writers” who really only knew that TC bought advertising, telling everyone how useless the RB was.
What people need to understand is explained by Forsythe. A hunting rifle must have sufficient accruracy, a flat trajectory and sufficient penetration to kill. The round ball, of suitable size, driven by something around 50% of ball weight does all these things very well. Within its range. Oh! Bullet energy, gun writes LOVE this. Its meaningless at BP velocities.
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LHSP, I guess experience tells the tale. Consider what ranges you have taken game at with your muzzleloaders so far? That would be a good place to start building on maybe.
TCA
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When it comes to bullet performance on game the round ball is vastly underrated as others have just said. The round ball will generally track straight barring any big bone interaction. In over 50 years of hunting with the round ball I have seen many stem to stern shots from close and long range on large bodied northern deer. Also one 400 lb. Fall Bear. Almost all the armchair experts are trying to sell a product or article and few have ever shot a round ball gun much less harvested \killed any game with one.
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Where one hunts usually makes a major difference. Years ago when I was an avid hunter down in my native Georgia shots at deer were usually necessarily close with an average distance of less than 30 yards. Some actual kills were as close as 6 feet or so. The accuracy needed for the brushy woods I hunted was modest indeed.
There was a huge hay field on the farm I hunted and deer normally wandered into the open just before dusk. The only deer I've killed at 100 (+) yards were the two I dropped while stationed behind a stack of hay bales "conveniently" located out in the open. I had two flintlock .50s sighted in 2" high at 50 yards. This worked well in the woods and I knew how much the ball would drop at the distances then available. Here, accuracy became a bit more important. A .490" patched ball over 100 grains of 3F shot like a tack driver at the ranges I tested it. And I've never bothered to test the load at more than 100 yards, my imposed limit back then. I had good eyes then and would never attempt such shots today if I still hunted deer, which I don't. Ball performance at that extended range was excellent on both animals with complete penetration and neither deer gave more than three or four leaps before they fell. The simple patched round ball is an astonishing hunting projectile that needs no excuse or apology as to its effectiveness.