AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: rich pierce on March 21, 2024, 09:19:58 PM

Title: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: rich pierce on March 21, 2024, 09:19:58 PM
I make my own thimbles and often of thin stock like originals.  Often while forming there’s some spring left or just obstinance that makes the rear end of the extension that lies over the fore-end want to pop up a little. Maybe it’s pride?  ;D

I’ve taken to soldering a tiny steel spear point on the tail and jab that into place. Your mileage may vary; some never seem to have this problem.

(https://i.ibb.co/9tmfR09/IMG-2093.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X8fdmPZ)

(https://i.ibb.co/G9rZw3m/IMG-2090.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W0Rr9pC)

(https://i.ibb.co/DL7MJYn/IMG-2092.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HXrPSCQ)

(https://i.ibb.co/qsgQmwL/IMG-2091.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ltg79fD)
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: smylee grouch on March 21, 2024, 09:26:29 PM
Yep, have done the same thing. I used some small brass nails.
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: bluenoser on March 22, 2024, 12:04:13 AM
Thanks for the tip.  I have a restoration on the bench and the replacement entry thimble is .032" thick.  I was concerned about keeping the tail in the inlet and that would do the trick quite nicely.
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: oldtravler61 on March 22, 2024, 01:06:23 AM
   Rich over the years. Your tips an tricks has saved me many a time. Very grateful.....Oldtravler
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: rich pierce on March 22, 2024, 01:38:22 AM
Thanks for the tip.  I have a restoration on the bench and the replacement entry thimble is .032" thick.  I was concerned about keeping the tail in the inlet and that would do the trick quite nicely.

Should do. This one is also 0.032” thick. I have an awl I use to poke the hole for the spike. Otherwise the middle section of the tail is under pressure and wants to hump up!

Mike, good to hear from you and thanks for the encouragement.
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: sdilts on March 22, 2024, 03:29:05 AM
I used to put a dab of epoxy on the tail to hold it down. Now I do like Rich. Works great.
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: smallpatch on March 22, 2024, 03:35:34 AM
I confess, I’ve done the same.
However, I do believe it’s a fakeout for the best inletting. Unfortunately, it’s sometimes very difficult to get the entry pipe properly adjusted to the proper offset.
Sooooooo, we sometimes pin the tail.
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: JasonR on March 22, 2024, 05:43:53 AM
I follow your idea Rich and makes sense. Makes me concerned thinking if that tip popped out and what it could do to your hand. You likely already do this but I usually place 2 pins in the rear entry and slightly bend the extension to avoid wobble. If I have a little more resistance from work-hardened brass it tends to keep it in place for me.
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: Steeltrap on March 22, 2024, 01:49:12 PM
In the next thread......builders who use sandpaper with nothing to back it up but their fingers!!  ;D
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: Bob Gerard on March 22, 2024, 01:55:32 PM
What a perfect looking fit! That’s something like how the long  side prongs (stirrups) of a pistol pommel are set into the stock.  I bet it will work great!
Though no prolific or artistic builder, I sometimes will slightly bend the point downward a bit and then press the rear entry pipe into place. The pointed tang gives in and fits into the inlet and the bend-memory keeps it snug.
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: rich pierce on March 22, 2024, 02:33:00 PM
I’ve never used pins, although I may try that on a wide skirt. Often I have about 1/8” of wood between the rear thimble skirt and the ramrod hole, and broke through once. I also worry about dimpling the skirt though once I started peening pins with a punch instead of a hammer I’ve made a lot fewer dings. If I was making thimbles of 0.045” stock I’d have more rigidity and fewer obstacles. It depends on the build.
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: Tim Crosby on March 22, 2024, 03:46:07 PM
 Couldn't you anneal and give it a slight downward bend? Just enough to make it fit but not noticeable. You could then reharden it it wanted.

    Tim   
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: rich pierce on March 22, 2024, 03:50:42 PM
Couldn't you anneal and give it a slight downward bend? Just enough to make it fit but not noticeable. You could then reharden it it wanted.

    Tim

Could do. As I said, some may not have any issues or use different approaches. The thin stock and the tapering end of this skirt makes the whole process a bit more complicated for me. It’s not easy to work harden brass without changing dimensions. The whole entry thimble fabrication and inletting takes me a while!
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: Gaeckle on March 22, 2024, 04:18:04 PM
Couldn't you anneal and give it a slight downward bend? Just enough to make it fit but not noticeable. You could then reharden it it wanted.

    Tim

Don't anneale it, it becomes too soft. You want it somewhat springy and you put a slight bend in the skirt where it connects to the thimble. When pinning the thimble put a clamp (small c-clamp) to add pressure downwards. Since the skirt is bent down  it acts as a spring and keeps the skirt firmly in the mortise
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: rich pierce on March 22, 2024, 05:41:18 PM
Couldn't you anneal and give it a slight downward bend? Just enough to make it fit but not noticeable. You could then reharden it it wanted.

    Tim

Don't anneale it, it becomes too soft. You want it somewhat springy and you put a slight bend in the skirt where it connects to the thimble. When pinning the thimble put a clamp (small c-clamp) to add pressure downwards. Since the skirt is bent down  it acts as a spring and keeps the skirt firmly in the mortise

Good technique. I can’t figure out how to form a thimble from sheet brass without annealing it, though. This would work for boughten thimbles.
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on March 22, 2024, 06:25:50 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/D5604F1/A1500-14-1024x1024.jpg) (https://ibb.co/18pFZN0)
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: P.W.Berkuta on March 22, 2024, 06:26:12 PM
I make my own thimbles and often of thin stock like originals.  Often while forming there’s some spring left or just obstinance that makes the rear end of the extension that lies over the fore-end want to pop up a little. Maybe it’s pride?  ;D

I’ve taken to soldering a tiny steel spear point on the tail and jab that into place. Your mileage may vary; some never seem to have this problem.

Smart idea - I've also had this problem - now I know how to fix it - Thanks - ;) ;D 8)
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: rich pierce on March 22, 2024, 07:59:54 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/D5604F1/A1500-14-1024x1024.jpg) (https://ibb.co/18pFZN0)
If I had a hammer!
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: Gaeckle on March 22, 2024, 08:16:44 PM
Couldn't you anneal and give it a slight downward bend? Just enough to make it fit but not noticeable. You could then reharden it it wanted.

    Tim

Don't anneale it, it becomes too soft. You want it somewhat springy and you put a slight bend in the skirt where it connects to the thimble. When pinning the thimble put a clamp (small c-clamp) to add pressure downwards. Since the skirt is bent down  it acts as a spring and keeps the skirt firmly in the mortise

Good technique. I can’t figure out how to form a thimble from sheet brass without annealing it, though. This would work for boughten thimbles.

Work harden it, use a little block of wood
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: rich pierce on March 22, 2024, 09:55:54 PM
Lots of good suggestions! Great discussion.
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: B.Habermehl on March 23, 2024, 07:00:07 PM
I don’t know how widespread this detail may be. In upper Susquehanna guns I’ve seen, often the points of inlays were tipped down into the wood. Perhaps dinged down after the gun was built, or the inlay was slightly cupped so when pinned flat the points dug in. These guns commonly had lots of inlays. Gust a thought...BJH
Title: Re: Keeping the extension down on entry thimbles
Post by: Hungry Horse on March 23, 2024, 09:09:19 PM
 Good grief, where were you thirty years ago? I was asked to refinish an antique muzzleloader that was still in use. It had lost most of its finish, all of its barrel finish, and many of it inlays. I began the repair by gently removing hardware, dents, and furniture pins. But when I got to the entry thimble I hit a wall. With everything that I could imagine removed, it wouldn’t budge. Eventually, after blazing right by all the warning signs of impending disaster, I popped a chip out of the forearm and discovered what you show here. A clever way to keep the tail of the inlay right where it belongs.

Hungry Horse