AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Tanselman on April 15, 2024, 05:02:49 AM
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I collect and research guns made in Kentucky. This past week-end I purchased a significant rifle at auction with very little competition at a very reasonable price... in large part due to the auctioneer listing the gun by the name on the lock plate, "Baker," rather than the barrel. He included the barrel name down in the description, but since it was in script he misread it significantly.
The gun was a ca. 1840-1845 half-stocked Bardstown rifle signed by Jacob Rizer, arguably Kentucky's finest gunmaker... and my favorite Kentucky gunmaker for many years. While rather plain, it had spectacular curly maple in the stock and a very long barrel, 46-1/2", for a percussion rifle, giving it a slim "southern" appearance. A signed Jacob Rizer rifle appears at auction about once every 10 years from my experience, so each new one is a "gotta have" rifle. It's also worth mentioning the auction house interpreted the very clean barrel signature as "J. Riner" which helped hide the gun from interested parties. When you chase a specific area's guns for years, you develop "inside knowledge" on a lot of small details, such as when Rizer went from flintlock rifles to percussion rifles, he changed his signature slightly, cutting off the tail on the "z" and instead began using a small print-style "z" in his last name [no tail dropping down], despite the rest of the name being in script... so it looks somewhat like an "n." The moral of this story is, despite all of our complaints about auction houses often using the name on a lock to identify a rifle, once in a while it's a really good thing!
Shelby Gallien
(https://i.ibb.co/GnFgPpq/Rizer-IL-full-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MZ9qNSm)
(https://i.ibb.co/d7XVWW8/Rizer-IL-front-half.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QXhTbby)
(https://i.ibb.co/4PhK5PJ/Rizer-IL-rear-half.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MMFZ3M9)
(https://i.ibb.co/RQcRQ8G/Rizer-IL-name-x.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vLk0L9C)
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8) 8).. I believe the Alfred Bearden rifle you bought at auction a few years was mislabled in the description as an "English sporting rifle" because of the England lock maker.... It was clearly a signed rifle...!!!.. regards,... CCF
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CCF,
If you are at the Knoxville Show this coming weekend, stop by my table [the one with the red blanket] since there will be two rifles you will probably be interested in looking at.
Shelby Gallien
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;) ;)... I have my table in the room to the left as you enter the show area...... I will look you up.. !!!... will be great to meet and discuss... Thanx.... CCF
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That is one of the first things I teach anyone on my team that occasionally works with American muzzleloaders: look for a barrel signature rather than a lock marking.
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That is one of the first things I teach anyone on my team that occasionally works with American muzzleloaders: look for a barrel signature rather than a lock marking.
I taught your folks how to ID conversions from flint to percussion. Long time ago now....
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You mean my rifle wasn’t made by G. Goulcher???
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That is one of the first things I teach anyone on my team that occasionally works with American muzzleloaders: look for a barrel signature rather than a lock marking.
I taught your folks how to ID conversions from flint to percussion. Long time ago now....
That is always a tricky one for people.
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I'd say that 99% of reconversions are easy to spot if you know what to look for. The bigger problem is that most collectors see what they want to see.
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That is one of the first things I teach anyone on my team that occasionally works with American muzzleloaders: look for a barrel signature rather than a lock marking.
You could also teach them what a swamped barrel looks like. The details usually just give the barrel length.
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...most collectors see what they want to see.
I think I want that quote on a shirt!
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That is one of the first things I teach anyone on my team that occasionally works with American muzzleloaders: look for a barrel signature rather than a lock marking.
You could also teach them what a swamped barrel looks like. The details usually just give the barrel length.
The standard practice for consistency and making the data searchable is to list the barrel length and shape (octagon, round, part octagon, ribbed, etc.) in the "data" section at the top of the description. When I'm working on descriptions of longrifles, I sometimes put if the barrel is swamped in the body of the description, especially if it is notably swamped. If we don't say if it is swamped, straight, tapered, etc. in the body of the catalog description, you can always ask, and we'll have someone check and let you know.
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I never buy at auction - I just can't get past the psychology of paying more than anyone else is willing to pay period .
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I've done all my recent buying at auction. I especially like items that are misidentified. That fact is, I know more about the stuff I'm interested in than any auction house and I often find things that don't sell for what I would value them at because far too many people actually rely on the auction description. If you have to rely on the auction house's description you shouldn't be bidding.
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The last posting pretty well sums up what the original posting was all about. Thanks.
Shelby Gallien