AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Ian Pratt on September 02, 2024, 04:36:50 PM
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Here are a few shots of a rifle I built as a model for the students in the recent "Foxfire Rifle" class. Hershel House's contribution to the Foxfire 5 book inspired many to try to take up gunmaking, and I thought that recreating the gun would make for a great class for beginners and old hands alike. The 7 day class was hosted by the Woodbury School Foundation at Hershel's home. John House, Gary Ludwig and I taught the class the last week of July. We had a big group of good students and we all had a blast! I will add some class photos to this post soon.
(https://i.ibb.co/gMyBkQp/IMG-4079.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWVPfbZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/HNXDTpk/IMG-4080.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VH3WYpP)
(https://i.ibb.co/hKkYqLT/IMG-4082.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q6ZD5px)
(https://i.ibb.co/S5fdPP5/IMG-4083.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GnHt00n)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZxG186F/IMG-4087.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fzmqwby)
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Beautiful rifle, I always loved that style. What barrel did you use?
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A most worthy project. Great looking rifle. ;)
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That is a beautiful rifle and so nicely finished.
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Photos don't do it justice. Anyone building previously or aspiring to should take this class and build this rifle. It was the best experience I have ever had in the world of longrifles with regards to skill building and gaining knowledge and experience. It is an immersive opportunity to do nothing but build that rifle.
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Beautiful rifle, I always loved that style. What barrel did you use?
To maintain the right character we had everyone use straight barrels like Hershel used for the Foxfire gun. He used a 7/8" .45 cal and many of the students stuck with that while others opted for a slightly different caliber or a lighter 13/16" barrel. This one was a .45 cal Green Mountain barrel I had on hand
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A most worthy project. Great looking rifle. ;)
Thank you, although I won't take any credit for the style of gun. This was an attempt to capture some of the spirit of Hershel's Foxfire gun and try to pass it along to others. It was of great importance to him that the classes would continue at his place in Woodbury and we're doing our best to carry on !
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That is a beautiful rifle and so nicely finished.
Thank you Daryl. I stained it with a little bit of Hershel's last batch of aquafortis mixed with some of my own and finished with a mix of Tru Oil and linseed as he often liked to do. John House did a " boiled in bleach on the forge" metal finish on all the steel parts as a demo on the last day of class.
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Photos don't do it justice. Anyone building previously or aspiring to should take this class and build this rifle. It was the best experience I have ever had in the world of longrifles with regards to skill building and gaining knowledge and experience. It is an immersive opportunity to do nothing but build that rifle.
It was great meeting you Jacob! Thanks for the thumbs up, and I enjoyed working with you. I hope that you and some of the other guys will post pictures of your guns here whenever they are done!
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Still a work in progress but I’m getting close.The class was an amazing experience. Can’t say enough about the great atmosphere and instruction.
(https://i.ibb.co/12NC09V/IMG-2903.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NYq0FLh)
(https://i.ibb.co/FxDZtx1/IMG-2902.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DVRcnVF)
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"capture some of the spirit of Hershel's... It was of great importance to him that the classes would continue at his place in Woodbury and we're doing our best to carry on !"
Thank you Ian! A lot of people deserve credit for preserving Hershel's legacy and you are at the top of the list. I would also like to mention the following people who have made significant donations (these are only people that I talked to or know made donations. If you were omitted from the list it is my fault):
Ian Pratt for taking up the cause and building the rifle https://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2009/09/ian-pratts-iron-mounted-maidens.html (https://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2009/09/ian-pratts-iron-mounted-maidens.html)
John House hand-forged buttplate/trigger-guard/hardware https://www.blackpowdermag.com/john-house-cla-featured-artist/ (https://www.blackpowdermag.com/john-house-cla-featured-artist/)
Stoner Creek who motivated me to seek donations to build a rifle to raffle for Herschel's cause. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGSYf4StyoM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGSYf4StyoM)
Nathan @ Harrison Gunstocks https://harrisonsawmill.com/gunstocks/ (https://harrisonsawmill.com/gunstocks/)
Jason @ Rice Barrels https://ricebarrels.com/ (https://ricebarrels.com/)
Dave Race for inletting the barrel into the stock
Barbie, Jim & Karen Chambers for a lock https://www.flintlocks.com/ (https://www.flintlocks.com/)
Jim "Bama" Parker @ Calvary Longrifles for a custom set trigger https://www.facebook.com/calvarylongreifles/ (https://www.facebook.com/calvarylongreifles/)
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Hi Ian,
Unbelievably nice gun! I remember that FoxFire chapter very well. It also inspired me to get making muzzleloaders back in 1979. I think it was Billy Kennedy that suggested I get the book. Maria says hi!
dave
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Ian I'm of the same group as others. Hershel and Fox Fire five. Started a lot of us on this path. What inspired me was the simplicity of the tools he used. My old Tennessee Mountain lathe is still working fine...
Thank you an everyone else who keeps Hershel tradition alive..
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That’s a great tribute/interpretation gun Ian! You have captured the essence and vibe of that particular FF 5 rifle, and of Hershel’s touches. I always wished the FF 5 chapter had better pics of the finished gun. Thanks for posting these. They certainly fill the void very well. And thanks for doing this class.
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Ian, could you describe the "boiled in bleach" that John House did for those of us not in the class?
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Thanks guys. Hershel was always so pleased to hear stories from people about how he helped them get started in gun building. One of his favorite things in life was passing along the things he had learned.
I agree that the quality of the photos in the book leave a lot to be desired, and if you start studying the math in the part they did about Hershel some of the info definitely doesn't add up either (I don't want to knock the Foxfire books - they are wonderful and very important records of the past). I honestly didn't have any better reference material, and the gun itself apparently disappeared from the Foxfire Museum's a long time ago. What I did have was a familiarity with the way Hershel worked just from being around him and from studying his work from that same period. I should probably also mention that the drawing that some refer to is unfortunately NOT of the actual Foxfire rifle. I saw Hershel politely point this out to students quite a few times. I really don't know what happened there. There are similarities between the two guns but it's not the right one.
So as simple of a gun that it is, there was still a bit of reverse engineering that had to happen to figure a couple of things out. The trigger guard was one. For a time he was forging these from 3/8" round stock and splitting out the back half vs. forge welding the spur. I have forged some larger musket type guards from a bit bigger diameter round stock but this was a little different and took me a little longer than I expected to work out. I made this one slightly different than the original to suit my shooting style but the others I made for the class were closer to the original.
Ian, could you describe the "boiled in bleach" that John House did for those of us not in the class?
John you are basically boiling your steel parts in a mix of household bleach and water. You have to experiment with what bleach is available to you locally. John House has been liking a cheaper brand that I think he gets at the Dollar Store. Everyone who used to do this used to use Clorox but apparently the formula changed and it won't do what it used to.
There are less toxic ways to rust metal, but few that work so quickly .....seal any surfaces you want to protect (like the inside of your lock) with poly varnish. Grease the bore, drive a tight wooden plug into the muzzle, point up the end of a small piece of soft copper wire and drive it into the vent. Stretch a piece of gutter sealed on both ends ( or other suitable vessel) across a forge or camp stove, fill with poison, bring to a boil and dump all your precious steel parts that you bought, made, shaped, engraved or otherwise slaved over directly into the boiling poison. Don't breathe for the next half hour or so. If you see bubbles chugging out of your barrel, stop immediately. Remove the barrel, call Bobby Hoyt and try to explain to him through your desparate sobbing that you will be sending him a barrel to fix.
Stir the poison and reposition the trough to try and get an even heat along the length of the barrel. Periodically remove the parts and scrub with steel wool. Wear gloves or your hands will fall off. When you think the parts are rusted enough, remove them, rinse off in clean water. If you see spots that need more corrosion, throw them back in.
For a dark finish like John did, keep rusting until you don't see many bare spots. Burnish everything with a fine wire wheel and re -inspect, throw back into the drink if needed. When satsified, wash with water and dawn dish soap. Before oiling, leave the parts for a few days for best color and coverage .
If you want more of a gray and pitted look, you can work the parts over a time or two with steel wool , wash then oil. Or as above wait and allow it to color up more before oiling.
I did some like this for a couple years or so when I got started then abandoned it for other methods. It was cool to see it done again and it certainly gave the rifle the right look! We actually deviated from how it was done in the book, but Hershel did hundreds of guns this way so John and I decided to run with it.
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You can get the same results without the big awful pitting by using Tracks Tried and True brown. Apply liberally (my only good reference to liberal), leave it outside overnight and it’s done. You’ll need to neutralize with ammonia and gently scrub back with 4/0 steel wool with oil. To heck with the boiling.
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That is one good looking rifle Ian.
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As always , beautiful rifle Ian!
Tony
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Still a work in progress but I’m getting close.The class was an amazing experience. Can’t say enough about the great atmosphere and instruction.
You are doing a great job Dave! Your rifle is coming along really well. You' re not too far off from having it finished and I look forward to seeing more photos!
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I'm not a gun builder, but have restored many original's both flintlock and percussion. Your build is just beautiful and I bet Hershal is smiling on a great class and build. I have always admired the guns from Hershal House and y'all done good.
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That's a spectacular piece of work - extremely awesome!
It was that Foxfire book, and an unknown 'Sports Afield' magazine article in the early 1980s that featured a Kuntz rifle, that got me seriously interested in these rifles.
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Nicely done, Ian, Hershel would b proud!!
Curtis
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Thanks guys!
That's a spectacular piece of work - extremely awesome!
It was that Foxfire book, and an unknown 'Sports Afield' magazine article in the early 1980s that featured a Kuntz rifle, that got me seriously interested in these rifles.
Thank you Eric. Building this one took me back in ways I hadn't expected. It had been many years since I had built a rifle with a straight barrel - my first guns all had straight barrels mostly because they were the cheaper option. It had also been a long time since I had filed a lock.bolster to kick the tail out so the wrist didn't end up like a pencil, and I can' t remember how.long it's been since I tried to deliberately copy someone else' s style of work. All of this.might not seem like too big of a deal to some but it really took me back to another time and a different frame of mind. Back then I didn't know Hershel yet but I knew his work, and I recognized that he was one of very few gunmakers who were successfully doing their own thing. I felt like it gave me license try to do the same. I couldn't have imagined back then that he and I would become friends.
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I think I mentioned this before, but probably my first exposure to these guns was from the Foxfire book. Dad had the set and I can remember being fascinated with the longrifle section. Would I have ever done this stuff without the Foxfire exposure? I'm not sure...
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The first 5 books were on a shelf in the upstairs foyer of my Grandparents farm house . I would sit and flip through reading them, and realizing how accurate they were. I even used an axe and a hammer to make sycamore roof shingles at their woodpile - just because. But in the corner of the same foyer was a percussion southern brass mounted 'squirrel rifle' or 'mountain rifle.' .32 caliber... and there was a book on how to make it.
That would have been 1982/83 timeframe.
And that still wasn't enough to get me where I am.
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I said I'd post some photos from class, so here are just a few. Most of these were taken by Rick Brown who organizes the classes at Hershel's place and also feeds the whole crew of gunmakers for the whole class - good stuff!
(https://i.ibb.co/hd8TrQK/breakfast.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z2ftC9S)
Breakfast! Great food and great time to visit with new friends.
(https://i.ibb.co/tKM0fqN/class-picture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g9M01SX)
The class plus Hershel's grandaughter and daughter, Rick's mother, and Whitey the dog
(https://i.ibb.co/pvK0vzQ/dave-shotwell.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PZWmZhM)
Dave, who has posted pictures on this thread of his near finished class gun. Nice job!
(https://i.ibb.co/QDRFBbB/gaddies.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VwZWyjy)
L to R - our friend Chad and father / son team the Sean and Silas. Silas finished up a pistol he'd started on earlier this summer in John House and Daniel Casey's bear pistol class, then he started working on a rifle that had the most obscenely awkward looking precarved stock any of us ever saw. The wood was badly soft to boot. They had bought it just to get the Green Mountain barrel that was in it, but they brought the stock along for entertainment purposes. One of us dubbed it the "Velveeta Rifle" due to the spongy wood and the general cheesiness of the stock shape, and the name stuck.....
..late one night later in the week, I was staring at the Velveeta Rifle for no good reason and started seeing some possibilities in it. After some frenzied scribbling on it and a bunch of "man should we really do this?", a small group of us sprung into action, reshaping, making, modifying and inletting. We almost pulled an all nighter. Silas intends to finish it up on his own. I'll post pictures here whenever that happens. It's the gun in the vise in the foreground, modified to a 3/4 stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/tJYVVqn/gary-and-brad.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4V4hh8C)
Instructor Gary Ludwig (with optivisor) helping Brad with layout. Brad was one of our people who'd never built a rifle and really hadn't had much experience with hand tools like we use. There's a lot to learn when you're a beginner, but he was eager and up to the task. We had about an even mix this time of beginners and builders with some experience.
(https://i.ibb.co/smtMqXw/john-bleach-boil.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ngR5jKc)
John House demonstrating the "bleach boil" that we were talking about here on this post. In this photo John was getting started on the parts for the class gun that I built.
(https://i.ibb.co/njTNjcb/porter.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pdgBdzx)
The bench, gun and hands of our buddy Jacob who is a dedicated scholar of some of the SW Virginia guns, so he and I had plenty to talk about!
(https://i.ibb.co/9Ht9LR9/randy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fdvY5mY)
Some of you may recognize this gunmaker! Randy has made a pile of rifles over the years and joined the class because he got his start from reading Foxfire 5 , was friends with Hershel for many years and just wanted to build that gun here at Hershel's place. It was great having him there in class and he even jumped in to help a couple of times.
(https://i.ibb.co/6XxHwzj/Sam-s-rifle.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2ZQvhxG)
(https://i.ibb.co/PW8F5Wt/scotty-s-rifle.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z2wQS2N)
Rifles by our friends Sam and Scotty. Sam is relatively new at this and is doing a great job so far. Scotty is an old hand at making guns and all kinds of related accoutrements. It's great when you can get the newcomers and the experienced makers together in one class!
(https://i.ibb.co/SBxL31C/the-teachers.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cQvmrpn)
Instructors on the last day of class - L to R John House, Ian Pratt and Gary Ludwig. Long week but a good one!
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Way to go!!! Teachers, students, everyone who loves what we do, this is the best! We all need to celebrate what has been created here. Let’s hope that this continues on for generations. I’m going to support this until I can’t!!!!
W
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Awesome stuff. Are there plans for another class in the future?
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The first 5 books were on a shelf in the upstairs foyer of my Grandparents farm house .
I had #1-#6 when we moved to the Ozarks, they were left at my mothers house in Florida. A hurricane damaged part of her roof and the books got soaked, so they were thrown away.
I have always regretted leaving them, but we just didn't have enough room to bring all the books & magazines, about 6 large cardboard boxes full, I had from childhood on. We could have used them on the homestead we built up here.
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Way to go!!! Teachers, students, everyone who loves what we do, this is the best! We all need to celebrate what has been created here. Let’s hope that this continues on for generations. I’m going to support this until I can’t!!!!
W
Thank you very much Wayne !
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Awesome stuff. Are there plans for another class in the future?
I am sure we'll be doing this again. It probably won't be until next year but I don't really know. Your best bet is to watch the class schedule on the foundation's website - https://www.woodbury-school.com/ (https://www.woodbury-school.com/) .
Speaking of the class schedule, for anyone interested in a class on forging iron mounts, there will be one at Hershel's place this November. Beginners welcome!
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Great warmth Ian. I just want to hold it and shoot it. Not sure there is a higher compliment. God Bless, Marc
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Great work Ian, and I must say I am so pleased you are keeping Hershels place running for classes!
I was down to the gun building seminar in 2003 at WKU, and my one regret was I didn't have a ride to go out to Hershels place one night with the others.
It was my Dream to get to see his place!
We had talked quite a bit prior when his phone was working, but I so wanted to see his place.
Anyway, It thrills me that it is still going with your help and John's. A Very worthy cause!!
I cannot get down that way in July, as I am not smart enough to retire from farming and its hay time, but after Hershel's passing, I got an old original barrel from Rich P here, one that he'd freshed out (and a grand job), and after some thought, figured to make a gun in Hershel's style in memory of him.
As I said, I wont (sadly!) be at the course but will be with you in spirit!
Thanks again Ian,
Richard, up in Alberta.
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Great work Ian, and I must say I am so pleased you are keeping Hershels place running for classes!
I was down to the gun building seminar in 2003 at WKU, and my one regret was I didn't have a ride to go out to Hershels place one night with the others.
It was my Dream to get to see his place!
We had talked quite a bit prior when his phone was working, but I so wanted to see his place.
Anyway, It thrills me that it is still going with your help and John's. A Very worthy cause!!
I cannot get down that way in July, as I am not smart enough to retire from farming and its hay time, but after Hershel's passing, I got an old original barrel from Rich P here, one that he'd freshed out (and a grand job), and after some thought, figured to make a gun in Hershel's style in memory of him.
As I said, I wont (sadly!) be at the course but will be with you in spirit!
Thanks again Ian,
Richard, up in Alberta.
Thanks for the kind words Richard, and I only take partial credit for keeping the classes going at Hershel's place. There are a bunch of good people making this happen, and this is only one of a group of classes being offered there between spring and fall of 2025. I'm happy to be a part of it!
We don't farm but we do grow a lot of our food , so even though it's on a much smaller scale I completely get the notion that you have to work at the right time of year and if you miss it you don't get a second chance. I'd like to teach a couple more classes each year than I do, but some of the times of year that are best for doing classes are out for me. Really the NMLRA / WKU seminar I do in June is pushing it some years.
Best of luck with your rifle project, and if you have any questions about it I may be able to help.
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Thank you in turn for Your kind words, Ian!
Yes, we too grow a lot of vegetables and it keeps me busy from spring to fall!
Thank you for the offer of help if I run into difficulties!
Again, very kind of you.
Wishing you and all the students a Great and fun filled success at your seminar!
I always remember a friend telling me " A gun making course with Hershel is more fun than anyone should be allowed to have!"
I trust it will be at Least this much fun for all of you!!
all the best,
R.