AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: MuskratMike on January 19, 2025, 09:52:54 PM
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Out here in the far Pacific NW my favorite caliber for hunting is a .54 caliber (deer, elk, bear, feral hogs etc..) We don't have very many white tail deer in Oregon but they are expanding their range in my state but mostly we have mule deer and black tail deer. I have always found (no matter who built it or who's barrel it has) a .40 is the most accurate caliber and is legal in Oregon. What is your favorite caliber for hunting white tail deer, load you use and why?
I know I will get a dozen different reasons but am trying to expand my knowledge. Jealous of you who can buy a tag over the counter and shoot more than one deer. Except for some areas west of the Cascades you have to put in for a lottery for the single unit you want to hunt and it is limited to one deer due to the mismanagement of our wildlife and the forests of my state.
Whit tail hunters let's hear from you.
Thanks,
"Muskrat" Mike
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MIKE, I USE A 54 CAL RICE AND/COLERAINE BARREL. THE 54 MAKE A BIG HOLE( EASIER FOR ME TO SEE) AND WILL TAKE THE BIGGET MEAN HOG DOWN HERE IN NE TEXAS..
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I have used 45-50-54-58 and 62 for the Whitetail in my area ( Saskatchewan sub spices ) . The 58 is by fat MY go to for them with 110 gr. of1&1\2 Swiss. A lot of open country with longer than wood lot shots so a flatter trajectory is helpful. Also more pass through on bigger bodied Deer.
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I generally use a 58 caliber. Once in a while a 54.
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It’s changed since the 1970s. Rifles in .45 and .50 were very common deer hunting guns back then. Bigger calibers were considered by many as for elk and bigger game. Seems like the .45 is now considered marginal and the .54 ideal now. They all work with good shot placement.
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.52 & .60 cal. Both work very well on whitetail.
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It’s changed since the 1970s. Rifles in .45 and .50 were very common deer hunting guns back then. Bigger calibers were considered by many as for elk and bigger game. Seems like the .45 is now considered marginal and the .54 ideal now. They all work with good shot placement.
What he said!
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For whitetail, I've used a cut-down Brown Bess and my original Belgian double--both shooting a .735" ball--more than anything else. The load I settled on for both guns was 95-110 gr FFg (actual charge depended on the powder manufacturer: target muzzle velocity is ~1200 fps), an overshot wad, and a patched .735" ball. After taking more than 70 whitetail with it, I can say it is "adequate" but have to qualify that: I've never taken a shot past 30 yards on game with that load, and could usually stalk to within 20 yards or less.
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I've been deer hunting with muzzleloaders since 1976 and all I've ever used was a .54 caliber rifle. It just works.
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For Deer and hogs in the S.E. Georgia area, shots are typically close where I hunt.
My 50 caliber has worked just fine from 20, out to 100yds with both roundballs and Hornady’s 385 gn “ Great Plains” conical.
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I think it depends on the deer in your area. The deer Smiley Grouch talks about are brutes. Texas deer tend to be all hat with small bodies.
Midwest deer also have big bodies.
Coues deer in Arizona and New Mexico, are small animals. The smallest caliber I have shot them with in a muzzleloader is .45.
I know a couple of guys who have shot them with a .36, but that is sitting a water source. I'm not familiar with the whitetail in your area Mike. If your hunting is going to be limited range out to 50 yards, I think any caliber will do.
Many a whitetail and mule deer has succumbed to a .22 long rifle bullet. Shot placement is everything.
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In my case Mike, I have used .54 and .58 mainly, and more the .58.
have shot the odd one or two with a home made .44 barrel in flint, but feel better with the bigger calibres.
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I mainly use 50 cal. and 54 here in Ohio.
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I like 62s. Big holes leak blood better than smaller holes or at least thats been my observation for the last 40 yrs
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I shot many o' deer with a .50 cal and it worked just fine every time. Last season was my first with a .54 and it to worked just fine. For whatever reason(s) I enjoyed the .54 kill the most of all of them. I like rifles with recoil.
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PEARL DRUMS - I'm thinking you'd find my moose thrower a joy to shoot.
Taylor snapped this picture just before she stopped climbing.
(https://i.ibb.co/WfgL04P/aiming.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qpkvC3W)
(https://i.ibb.co/DQRD8rj/aiming-n-shooting-140gr.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qprMWJ2)
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Daryl, that reminds me of the Ontario Muzzleloading competitions in Chatham, when I was shooting the smoothbore matches Someone stopped to chat about my 10 bore, and while distracted I accidentally doubled the powder charge. ie 140 gr x 2= 280 gr. That was memorable ! After that shot , I asked the fellow if he wanted to try the gun....he declined ;D
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Here on Stoner Creek we have used anything from a .36 to a .70 something shoulder cannon that Big Wayne has…. Results are the same. Its all about shot placement… We change em up for fun.
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.54 I hunted with a .50 for years but never was happy with it. I'm happy with the .54.
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Daryl, I would definitely enjoy a few rounds with that baby.
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.58 Pa deer find it deadly poisonous.
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50-54
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I need a caliber that multiplies the deer population. Any suggestions? I’m lucky to see 3 deer briefly in a whole season.
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We have a cabin in the middle of the National Forest that we have had for 11 years. So far, we have seen one whitetail from our cabin in those 11 years. Here at home in NY we see deer in our yard almost every day.
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Daryl, that reminds me of the Ontario Muzzleloading competitions in Chatham, when I was shooting the smoothbore matches Someone stopped to chat about my 10 bore, and while distracted I accidentally doubled the powder charge. ie 140 gr x 2= 280 gr. That was memorable ! After that shot , I asked the fellow if he wanted to try the gun....he declined ;D
I did that too, when testing loads over the chronograph. I got 1,550fps with 165gr., and 1,700fps with 200gr. I then went back to 165gr. to finish a group and accidentally doubled it to 330gr.
I recorded only 1,770fps for that shot, so the extra 130gr. only gave 70fps over the 200gr. load. LOL
Lifted me up off the stump I was sitting on, to the standing position. I guess that rifle has been proofed.
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Out here in the far Pacific NW my favorite caliber for hunting is a .54 caliber (deer, elk, bear, feral hogs etc..) We don't have very many white tail deer in Oregon but they are expanding their range in my state but mostly we have mule deer and black tail deer. I have always found (no matter who built it or who's barrel it has) a .40 is the most accurate caliber and is legal in Oregon. What is your favorite caliber for hunting white tail deer, load you use and why?
I know I will get a dozen different reasons but am trying to expand my knowledge. Jealous of you who can buy a tag over the counter and shoot more than one deer. Except for some areas west of the Cascades you have to put in for a lottery for the single unit you want to hunt and it is limited to one deer due to the mismanagement of our wildlife and the forests of my state.
Whit tail hunters let's hear from you.
Thanks,
"Muskrat" Mike
There are many choices. I would not hunt deer with anything smaller that 50. So far as accuracy. 40 cal is not going to be any better than anything else. I have a 54 Douglas barrel that has shoot 5 shots into 6” at 200 yards off a lawn chair and a pickup tailgate. I have another that Jim Mclemore told, after his testing before shipping it to me, it will cut the same hole at 100 with 120 gr of FFF and a teflon patch. But he tested them with a percussion act with a scope. I did shoot a 10 shot string 4.087” at Cody one year in the wind. But when he was making barrels he was far more particular than most ML barrel makers.
This a composite I made up from the real targets. I think I was using a tang sight in that match but cannot remember.
(https://i.ibb.co/LpVL3SF/IMG-9512.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PCq7dxL)
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I mostly squirrel hunt, but the deer and hogs that I've taken have been with .45 (65 grs 3fff) and .50 (80 grs 2ff). I do have a nice .62 flintlock that I'd like to try out. The shots are usually 50 yds or less for me here in Florida. I have taken a deer and a hog with a .30 ML, which is legal here in Florida. The minimum caliber a couple of years ago for muzzleloaders was .40, but the FWC approved .30 air guns, so also approved .30 ML's. James Levy
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I hunted Texas whitetails. They had no caliber restrictions but I used a .50 cal. 60 grains of 3-f always gave total pass through. Now I chase mule deer and elk and carry a .54 loaded with 90 grains.
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a 45 is all you need, shot placement is everything. and if you don't take a 45, a 40 will work like this one does(https://i.imgur.com/AZg7U8g.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/gj4pe54.jpg),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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45 does the same,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,(https://i.imgur.com/qiJo8jN.jpg)
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The end result might be the same , but bigger usually does it faster ;D
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really? i killed two 8 point bucks 2024 with the 40, they were both at 80yds, the first one you see in the photo dropped stone dead, the other with the 40 was hit in the heart and ran about 5 jumps and folded. the second deer you see in the photo was shot with a 45 Kibler SMR at the same spot, 80yds, he dropped just where you see him. it don't get much quicker than that Bob,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 8)
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Just curious Mr. Wolf, where you were hunting and what those bullets did performance wise and any other particulars on the performance of your load. What was the approx weight of those deer ?
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80 yard run here could very well = a lost deer. A lot depends on were you hunt. My property was 40 acres, now 20 acres since I severed and built our wee 950 sq ft retirement house. One neighbour has a bad habit of lining the fence line of the woods with his friends. If the see me, they wave, but , I'm not impressed. Most of my shots are taken at less than 50 yards due to the woods density. Actually, 35 yards would be more likely.This is why I do most of my hunting with a smoothbore , either my 20 or 10 bore. Most deer don't make it but a few steps. Same with black bears or moose. I know that smaller calibers are indeed lethal. I've probably shot more deer with a .50 than anything else, and as said, they usually didn't;t get far after the shot, however the bigger the hole, the faster the boat sinks...usually ;D
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Growing up in NJ they required that your rifle had to be .45 caliber or bigger. Most of the common commercial rifles at that time were either .45 or .50 caliber. Rarely did you see a commercial made rifle in .54 or even .58 other than a Civil War musket, Charleville or Brown Bess.
The .54 caliber Hawken style rifle started to gain ground in the early to mid 70's in my neck of the woods. I built my first .54 caliber Hawken in 1970 or 71. Up until then I shot a .45 caliber rifle for every game animal in the state that was huntable by law - ground hogs were shot anytime.
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80 yard run here could very well = a lost deer. A lot depends on were you hunt. My property was 40 acres, now 20 acres since I severed and built our wee 950 sq ft retirement house. One neighbour has a bad habit of lining the fence line of the woods with his friends. If the see me, they wave, but , I'm not impressed. Most of my shots are taken at less than 50 yards due to the woods density. Actually, 35 yards would be more likely.This is why I do most of my hunting with a smoothbore , either my 20 or 10 bore. Most deer don't make it but a few steps. Same with black bears or moose. I know that smaller calibers are indeed lethal. I've probably shot more deer with a .50 than anything else, and as said, they usually didn't;t get far after the shot, however the bigger the hole, the faster the boat sinks...usually ;D
no mr. Bob, the distance of the shot was 80yds. the deer only made it about 40 or 50yds. i have shot them with a 54 and had them run 75 yds or so.
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Just curious Mr. Wolf, where you were hunting and what those bullets did performance wise and any other particulars on the performance of your load. What was the approx weight of those deer ?
i live in and hunt the woods of the low country of SC. the first deer was about 120lbs the second deer was around 150, the 40 will usually go to the off-skin side, the 45 will do the same . the 40 load i use is 62gr. of 3f goex the 45 is 75gr. of 3f goex just a side note, the 45 is just as accurate with 2f
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here is a 100 pound doe i shot at 93 long paces with a 54, complete pass through. no blood at all! the deer ran 75yds or so, you see where she was hit. the small caliber with a faster ball and more shock (https://i.imgur.com/Xt1fphm.jpg)usually puts them down faster, just my experience, yours may differ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Haven't shot a deer with it, but moose are just big deer. My .69 staggered them, then they walk a few steps and stop and my buddy's .75 drops them in their tracks.
Big balls matter on big deer. The bigger the better.
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The Northern deer are much bigger than deer in the Southeastern Seaboard. I've shot does in Illinois that push 200 lbs. I have seen bucks that push 300 pounds.
Canada's deer in Alberta and Saskatchewan are brutes, if I were to hunt them, I would prefer a caliber that starts with a six.
I wouldn't hesitate to hunt SC sized deer with a .40, though I prefer a .45.
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Alacran,
Yes, big deer here in Alberta.
I Have shot a couple of mule deer with a homemade barreled .44, but the rest with either a .54 loaded well, (120 grs) or the .58
Wasn't too comfortable with the .44 but it worked out.
Like the bigger calibres and never a problem with either.
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Local chap here, tried the 200gr. R.E.A.L. bullets in his .45 flinter on our mule deer. He found they killed no better, nor worse than the
round balls he normally used, so went back to round balls for them. He never had trouble that he let on about.
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I'm really not much into hunting, but I really would prefer a rifle in the .62 caliber range for deer.
For elk, I would much prefer my .72.
I did shoot a 1,700+ pound bull bison with my .72 a while back and at 104 yards, that just rolled it onto its back, all four feet up in the air.
I believe if you hit the critter, it should pick it up and slam it down. That takes their desire to go any further away from it.
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The Northern deer are much bigger than deer in the Southeastern Seaboard. I've shot does in Illinois that push 200 lbs. I have seen bucks that push 300 pounds.
Canada's deer in Alberta and Saskatchewan are brutes, if I were to hunt them, I would prefer a caliber that starts with a six.
I wouldn't hesitate to hunt SC sized deer with a .40, though I prefer a .45.
\\i here you, but it still all comes down to shot placement, as long as it reaches the vitals,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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That first deer, the one that dropped stone dead, was shot in the front of the neck a long way from the central nervous system, yet dropped stone dead. It doesn't normally happen that way. But I admit, though almost a miss, that artery is vital.
The other photo shows the shot just under the spine, did that one also drop on the spot? I shot one a couple of years ago in almost the same spot, it's not where I was aiming but I had a slight hangfire and that's where I hit. Even though shot with a .54 it went close to 100 yards before bleeding out. That's what I expect one to do.
All three of yours dropped basically on the spot. Very unusual.
At one time we could kill 12 deer a year per person. I had a wife and 2 boys hunting deer. I have seen an awful lot of deer killed with a variety of weapons of all calibers, mostly good shots in the heart, lung area, and I've learned to expect most of them to run some distance after the shot. Though it is nice when one drops dead to the shot, it's not something I expect to happen.
Since my .40 is not as deadly as yours I'll stick to my .54.
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I figure a deer can run (bound) at least as fast as an Olympic runner. In 10 seconds they can cover 100 yards easy. Probably they can make 100 yards in 8 seconds. So a deer going 100 yards after being shot is no big deal. It can happen even with a very good shot, with whatever caliber and load from a muzzleloader, unless the central nervous system is impacted.
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The question was " what is your favourite whitetail cal. " ? If someone has a favourite , I'm happy for them. I have mine and I listed a few reasons for my choice. There is a fellow out here who has gone to a .38 long rifle instead of his usual .40
He hunts from a stand in an old orchard, and it works for him. I would use a .40 if that's what I had , but.... One thing I will mention is that over 30 ...more like 35 years ago. I gave up on bullets and switched to round balls for hunting with muzzleloaders , and haven't regretted it.
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The question was " what is your favourite whitetail cal. " ? If someone has a favourite , I'm happy for them. I have mine and I listed a few reasons for my choice. There is a fellow out here who has gone to a .38 long rifle instead of his usual .40
He hunts from a stand in an old orchard, and it works for him. I would use a .40 if that's what I had , but.... One thing I will mention is that over 30 ...more like 35 years ago. I gave up on bullets and switched to round balls for hunting with muzzleloaders , and haven't regretted it.
I get it. I think that for me, I prefer favorite guns over favorite calibers, so don’t have too much to offer on the topic. The gun I know best is the best for me.
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One thing about a moose, is that if lung-ed, even just one lung, they'll lay down and bleed out inside 60yards, if you don't chase after them.
It's difficult for some people NOT to chase after them. Found most clients to be of that sort.
I've never seen this, but have heard that a whitetail in a field, especially of shot in the heart, will dash to the bush before dropping. Anyone?
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I have taken them with .45, .50, .54, .58, .62. I don't see any substantial difference in their dying and always placed hunting and aiming skill's ahead of caliber anyway.
Daryl, that has been my observation as well. They are edge creatures and always head for the bush or woods when alarmed.
Robby
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Ive been lucky and shot several in the heart and observed many more shot likewise. When they are in the open they almost always spring up, then dash in an " arc " before falling.
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I learned from my bow hunting days not to chase after them right away. Watch as long as you can see them and mark where you are standing then sit your butt down and have a drink of water. Wait at least 10 minutes 20 minutes if they were still running when you saw them last. Walk slow and mark where you find blood. Never tried it before but I would think flagging ribbon would be ideal
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One thing about a moose, is that if lung-ed, even just one lung, they'll lay down and bleed out inside 60yards, if you don't chase after them.
It's difficult for some people NOT to chase after them. Found most clients to be of that sort.
I've never seen this, but have heard that a whitetail in a field, especially of shot in the heart, will dash to the bush before dropping. Anyone?
A whitetail deer is strung tighter than a drum. When shot, if the shot does not drop him on the spot, they will take off wide open until they bleed out. This is not a factor of caliber it's just that the deer's nervous system is a hair trigger. Whether in a field or the deep woods the effect is the same, they will run, usually in the direction they were heading when shot. Sometimes in an arc, sometimes not.
For many years now my practice has been to wear a compass around my neck. When I shoot at a deer and it runs I listen and take out the compass, then I get a reading to the last spot I heard him. After waiting 15 to 30 minutes I start looking for blood if I can't find any where he was standing I follow his trail as close as possible only now I'm also looking for the spots where his hoofs kicked up dirt and leaves and look down inside for blood. If blood is running down the leg often it will be where he kicked up the leaves. Sometimes that's all you get until the blood inside fills up enough to reach the entrance hole.
If all this fails I go back to where I was when I shot, get out my compass and head straight towards where I last heard him. I have recovered several over the years using my compass.
I like a .54 or larger. Not because the larger ball will flatten one faster but because the larger diameter will nick or damage more of the heart, lung, liver etc. where a smaller ball may miss it altogether. It also allows more blood to exit the body. And it causes more tissue damage as it plows through.
I match my caliber to the game, .54 for hogs and deer, and my .40 is pure death on a gobbler.
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White tail with my .54 Great Plains (roundball). I use 90gr 2F as a hunting load.
Tried going up to 110gr 2F for Moose hunting, but it was deeply unpleasant to shoot, so used my .54 1863 Sharps. (460gr ringtail, 60gr 1.5F swiss) instead with good success.
Hope to replace the GPR with my soon to be finished .62 Jaeger. (Any day now, for real!)
The white tail I got last year had both lungs totally shredded and still ran a good 50-60 meters. Despite the 2 big holes in it, it also took a while before it was spilling out any blood and I actually thought I'd missed it, before I luckily spotted a tiny drop of blood. We were just about to give up on it.
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My experience exactly Jacob. Good blood tracking skills are a definite plus. A roundball just doesn't usually leave a lot of blood for one to track. I killed my first deer with a roundball in 1976. I've had a lot of time to hone my tracking skill.
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Blood fills up in the body cavity until it reaches the hole...aim low that's where the heart is also.
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Daniel,
From my experience, it seems that a higher shot in lungs knocks them down quicker than a heart shot, and have never aimed for the heart.
On occasion I have hit it, and they go like a bat out of hades, but a bit higher lung shot seems to more or less flatten them, or they might go ten yards or so.
This with a decent calibre and powder charge of course.
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Any whitetail, be it an Alberta bruiser or a Southern pup will die within seconds if shot through both lungs with any projectile from a 20 some caliber modern rifle to a wooden arrow tipped with a field point. These are facts and all the stories of "I double lunged him and never found him" are just that!
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I've heard the same stories about moose and elk. :o
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I think there is something to it. I always try to double lung them if possible. Sometimes you get both lungs and the heart as well.
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I think there is something to it. I always try to double lung them if possible. Sometimes you get both lungs and the heart as well.
Fellow did just that, many years ago, might have been 2007. I was helping gut out a moose one of the hunters shot, when another hunter, just out of sight of the bunch of us,
shot a bull with a 100gr. PYRODEX load, using a .54 TC. (yeah- he ruined that barrel- rotted it out in 2 years - wouldn't listen). Anyway, the shot was made at 170yards and the
bull was hit a bit low of centre, holing the first lung, heart and the second lung. The hole was about an inch in diameter through all organs. We assume due to the shock wave.
The ball ended up on the off side, under the hide. The bull took off running hard and collapsed mid stride after 40yard run. Just folded up.
The moose and the hunter. Incidentally, he could not put 5 shots on a standard target at 100yards, without missing at least once. I would not have let him take that shot, because
I was with him when he was shooting off my portable bench in camp. He lucked out.
(https://i.ibb.co/4nLzm2vJ/170-Yard-Moose.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kpgd0D4m)