AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Ky-Flinter on February 17, 2025, 12:44:12 AM

Title: My first ML shotgun - Input needed
Post by: Ky-Flinter on February 17, 2025, 12:44:12 AM: I've been fooling around with muzzleloading rifles for 40+ years but have never owned a muzzleloading shotgun. My good friend and ALR member James Levy helped remedy that pitiful situation at the recent Lake Cumberland LR Show and I'm grateful to him and excited to own this piece.

It is a double barrel percussion gun with twist barrels. It is nearly illegible, but I think it is marked "London Fine Twist" on the rib. The locks are marked "Scott and Son" and are hand engraved. I've been researching the barrel marks and they indicate the gun was made in Birmingham, but I haven't found much info on "Scott and Son" and some of the barrel marks are not listed in any of the references I have found. I'm especially curious about the Crown over S stamped on the inside of the lock plates and the castle/tower mark on one barrel, and when Scott and Son might have been active..

I will be most appreciative for any info and insights the group can provide. Thanks in advance. -Ron

(https://i.ibb.co/fYrnrHJ9/IMG-0526-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0jYFYr5K)

(https://i.ibb.co/dJWsbtVm/IMG-0527-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G3xfs98H)

(https://i.ibb.co/x8rYwz93/IMG-0523.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cXswR2fx)

(https://i.ibb.co/rGMBwND8/IMG-0522-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N6p0ybcD)

(https://i.ibb.co/S7P8MtVF/IMG-0511.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XkbgK7Fc)

(https://i.ibb.co/m5ynGWJF/IMG-0509.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wvzr6Jnp)
Title: Re: My first ML shotgun - Input needed
Post by: Ky-Flinter on February 17, 2025, 09:08:03 AM: Are the circled marks shown below intentional? They appear similar to me

(https://i.ibb.co/jPLDq6q1/IMG-0514-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B5gBvzvS)

Thanks,
Ron
Title: Re: My first ML shotgun - Input needed
Post by: Hudnut on February 17, 2025, 03:29:30 PM: They look to be the same crown over S as on the inside of the lockplate.
No idea about what they mean.
Proof marks include post-1813 and post 1855 Birmingham.
Quick search found William Scott, eventually W & C Scott.
It is a typical Birmingham made export grade shotgun, untold thousands of which were produced in the 19th century.
Title: Re: My first ML shotgun - Input needed
Post by: smart dog on February 17, 2025, 03:37:56 PM: Hi Ron,
The barrel proofs are Birmingham between 1855 and 1868. The ambiguous marks may be for the barrel maker but I cannot read them. It looks to be 15 bore. Scott & Son is likely William Scott of Birmingham who eventually was one of the major producers of shotguns in the UK during the mid 19th century.

dave
Title: Re: My first ML shotgun - Input needed
Post by: T*O*F on February 17, 2025, 06:00:46 PM: Quote
Quick search found William Scott, eventually W & C Scott.
I have posted before the history of the Scott family here. It was named Scott & son only between the years of 1862 - 1865.
Title: Re: My first ML shotgun - Input needed
Post by: Hudnut on February 17, 2025, 07:00:34 PM: That certainly dates it very closely.
Title: Re: My first ML shotgun - Input needed
Post by: Levy on February 17, 2025, 10:31:43 PM: Ron, The castle/tower mark also appears on the outside of the hook breech tang of a W. C. Scott & Sons 10 ga. double that I have. Not the one you so graciously baby sat for me. Maybe it's a mark that just represents Scott. James "Sparkleberry Jim" Levy
Title: Re: My first ML shotgun - Input needed
Post by: Ky-Flinter on February 17, 2025, 10:55:10 PM: Thanks James. Does the castle/tower mark on your gun have a flag on top? The castle/tower with a flag is apparently often seen on W. & C. Scott guns. The mark on my gun lacks the flag. Is the mark on your gun and mine the same otherwise? Thanks.

Ron
Title: Re: My first ML shotgun - Input needed
Post by: BillS on February 17, 2025, 11:13:39 PM: In the 1960s I used a 14 gauge Scott and Son a lot for rabbits in Ohio. My son has this one now and it looks extremely like yours, including the stock color. In the 1980s my father acquired another one that could be its twin but in 19 gauge. I acquired it about 12 years ago after his death. I have successfully used it many times on rabbits and pheasants here in SD and in 2023 used it on a fall turkey. https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=76466.0 It has the same mark on the locks.

T*O*F, I cannot find the thread on the Scott family using the search engine. I had always assumed "Scott and Son" was done to fool a buyer and they were made in Birmingham by some other maker. If you could post the link to your history of the Scott family, I would appreciate it.
Title: Re: My first ML shotgun - Input needed
Post by: Ky-Flinter on February 17, 2025, 11:42:09 PM: Thanks to all for the replies. Very helpful and much appreciated.

Thanks BillS,
I've been trying to find the thread on the Scott family history too, with no luck. Maybe it's in the Archives from the old ALR Forum. Unfortunately, I can't get to the archives as the link is not working. Hopefully TOF will share the history with us.

I also suspect our "Scott and Son" and "W. & C. Scott and Son" are not the same outfit.

Good looking turkey, by the way.

-Ron
Title: Re: My first ML shotgun - Input needed
Post by: Daryl on February 18, 2025, 12:11:45 AM: Quote from: T*O*F on February 17, 2025, 06:00:46 PM
Quote
Quick search found William Scott, eventually W & C Scott.
I have posted before the history of the Scott family here. It was named Scott & son only between the years of 1862 - 1865.

Yes! I knew of W & C Scott as my late friend Wil T. had a couple of them, one of which had to be Scott and Son, but I remembered it as WC Scott and son. Memories can be fragile.
Both were CTG guns with 2 1/2" chambers.