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General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: recurve on February 22, 2025, 06:38:19 PM

Title: touching up flints
Post by: recurve on February 22, 2025, 06:38:19 PM
If you hammer a flint in your lock you may break or round your tumble edges.  Steel is hardness of 6 ,flint/chert 7  flint(yes all those little hits add up) steel may give before flint.   take the lock just past half cock held with your thumb (not resting on half cock notch, your safety, the way Mr Dixon showed me) and then re edge.  Or better yet replace the flint with a sharp one and pressure flake the older flint for a new sharp edge.
                                      the sparks are steel shaved off the frizzen by the flint/chert

I use a leather pad attached to wood and an antler with copper wire hot melt glue on one end
(https://i.ibb.co/Ldbfz9xf/DSC03195.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1GhxfRrx)
 or place the flint in a vise(padded) and use a small punch on the edge
held in the tumbler half or full cock (those are square notches and need to be square for safety, hammering  will round or break the edge off)
 
you can also use a diamond file or stone (diamond hardness of 10, flint7) but if you grind protect your lungs the dust is deadly(thousands of micro razers cutting lungs)  and I use glass workers gloves when knapping (lots of Band-Aids)
also it's very bad for your eyes flakes and dust cuts ,SAFETY GLASSES are a must . I only knap with a breeze,or fan blowing left to right blowing micro flakes away or with m95 mask
(https://i.ibb.co/KzS7bh7L/DSC03238-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WpjFG5FP)
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: recurve on February 22, 2025, 06:41:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zavFmFJb-FE
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: recurve on February 22, 2025, 06:43:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cn9qSd5ib8
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: recurve on February 22, 2025, 06:58:28 PM
If you don't think your tumbler will break/round just ask Chambers
 I know of 2 , An Allen Martin customer asked Allen at the 18th century show 2024( while I was talking to Allen )"why doesn't my lock hold at half cock anymore?" I asked if he knapped the flint at half cock ? his reply was" Yes of course." so Allen sent him to see Barbie at the siler table
another flinter on the other web site just had to replace his tumbler (last week) for the same thing (chambers sent him a new tumbler, great customer service) !

     YOUR TUMBLER IS YOUR ONLY SAFETY ON YOUR RIFLE OTHER THAN YOU
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: recurve on February 22, 2025, 07:14:53 PM
If any of you come the Kempton gun makers fair and have flint/chert we can try to make you a gun flint(or 2) if it's good flint/chert(some is to brittle and may shatter)

you can resize a flint like I do in the video
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: MuskratMike on February 22, 2025, 10:43:20 PM
Here is a simple tool I use for touching up my flints. You can buy these at any muzzleloading supply store. It is a brass wedge removal tool for your half stock rifle. I cut a small notch in the end and it is ready to knapp. The knurled end makes gripping them very easy.
(https://i.ibb.co/vCg0Gdnk/Knapping-tool-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nqZxv1Jj)

(https://i.ibb.co/kshZF4Kh/Knapping-tool-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1t9cxrZ9)

(https://i.ibb.co/dwTQsCZq/Wedge-pin-remover.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hJ6KxQ0j)
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: smylee grouch on February 22, 2025, 11:24:28 PM
At one time I had a short section of a broken course file that I could lightly run across the flint edge and get another 6-8 shots off after using it.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Daryl on February 22, 2025, 11:39:23 PM
These work surprisingly well.

Hammer support is vital during the prying motion against the edge.
This is using a tool/screw driver Taylor made using a piece of rectangular copper for the hammer nose.

(https://i.ibb.co/JW34Tq5g/flint-knapping-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NgTPqrZb)

This tool is used in a rocking, prying motion. It actually is amazingly simple to 'touch-up" the flint.
(https://i.ibb.co/5XHbv4L7/Knapping-Tool.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qLQT9jpZ)

Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Don Steele on February 23, 2025, 02:52:04 PM
I’m a big fan of Diamond tools to reshape flints. A while back I bought an inexpensive set of Diamond files and began using them on my flints. Correctly Using a file puts very little pressure on the internals of the lock. Let the tool do the work..!
The flint in this image was dressed as needed with one of those hand files. I also picked up some Diamond surfaced Dremel accessories to speed up the process and in some cases make gross reshaping, such as removing humps on less than ideal gun flints.
Hope this helps.

(https://i.ibb.co/HfxkMVwX/IMG-1050.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G4tb10YF)
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: recurve on February 23, 2025, 05:59:50 PM
diamond files and stones work very well(YOUR LEATHERMAN TOOLS HAVE ONE ) and small diamond files can be found in the wife's fingernail section of Walmart(good in you possibles bag) and larger ones at tool places

don't breath the dust
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Hawg on February 23, 2025, 06:12:28 PM
Knapping is something I need to learn how to do. The few times I tried didn't work out so well.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: recurve on February 23, 2025, 06:18:18 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/XfGjHbNP/DSC03220.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DPjzdtsF) large learning curve and waist first several pounds of flint was made  into sharp gravel  you tube helps keep at it pick a safe place to knap no kid/pet zone

(https://i.ibb.co/YBcd5nvH/DSC03720.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8grxyvF1)
when I demo I need to put down heavy ground covering to collect the sharps and popup to protect my viewers
(https://i.ibb.co/zHJ6N7Q7/KIMG3195.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YTZ0byPy)

(https://i.ibb.co/PsPKqjNh/KIMG2467-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gbfNk93T)

(https://i.ibb.co/GfSX4N3b/DSC03717.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WNJQ4jpY)
my gun flint shaping work area (iced in right now)  I sit and knap blades as in video
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Dennis Daigger on February 24, 2025, 06:08:28 PM
I’m a big fan of Diamond tools to reshape flints. A while back I bought an inexpensive set of Diamond files and began using them on my flints. Correctly Using a file puts very little pressure on the internals of the lock. Let the tool do the work..!
The flint in this image was dressed as needed with one of those hand files. I also picked up some Diamond surfaced Dremel accessories to speed up the process and in some cases make gross reshaping, such as removing humps on less than ideal gun flints.
Hope this helps.

(https://i.ibb.co/HfxkMVwX/IMG-1050.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G4tb10YF)
Don,
Can you explain exactly how “Correctly using a file” for flint touch up is done?
Thanks,
Dennis
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Daryl on February 25, 2025, 04:44:09 AM
Yes - I am curious as well. The flat or straight edge hitting the steel will be more even, compared to the toothy strike of a napped flint.
The flat, even strike will penetrate less deeply than the spikey - toothy edge, but will also less likely to be damaged, as more of the surface of the flint
is being struck, thus reducing the striking force. Getting complicated.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: JEH on February 25, 2025, 04:57:57 AM
I use diamond files to rework flints after they are removed from the cock. Flint in one hand and file in the other. You can salvage most of them for range work. Hunting flints are always new ones.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Bill in Md on February 25, 2025, 09:01:58 PM
Recurve, thank you for the tutorials....Very helpful!!!
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Don Steele on February 26, 2025, 03:41:31 AM
Dennis,
The best technique I’ve found is to pass the file left-to-right on both the top of the rock and along the bottom edge as well. Not trying to create a new, different bevel… just using the file to keep the bevel  edge even, not “ pitted “ or gouged. Minimal pressure is all that’s required. Let the tool do the work, your hand just guides it. Filing a flint to maintain its utility in the lock removes much less material than knapping, but it is slower.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: smylee grouch on February 26, 2025, 04:19:58 AM
Don Steele,s  method is kinda what i did with my old course file. I would lightly run the file downward across the top edge, you can feel and hear a faint chatter as the file was chipping minute chips off the edge.  It was a quick fix if you are on the line with a couple of  shots to go on a target/
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: nemovir on February 26, 2025, 07:21:39 AM
So we should replace with a fresh flint each time it stops sparking and reknap at home to prevent damage to the tumbler ?
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Darkhorse on February 26, 2025, 10:11:54 AM
I don't use a new flint for hunting as I've had too many break the first few times I've used them. I find a good looking flint and shoot it a few times then save it for hunting. Before use I knap it good and sharp. Good ones might stay in the rifle all season.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: recurve on February 26, 2025, 04:54:06 PM
No  you don't have to replace the flint every time
 BUT YOU MUST NOT ROUND OFF YOUR TUMBLER

the best way is replacing the flint but that's not passable always , SO  hold the cock out of battery( just past half cock ) so you don't hammer the safety part the half cock notch.  It feels weird at first but it will prolong you lock part and maybe save you from an unexpected hammer fall
                                                                    (BANG) when you don't want it like in a cabin   :'(
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Daryl on February 26, 2025, 09:33:21 PM
Knapping a flint in the jaws of the cock.
Holding the cock back from 1/2 cock with the thumb, while the forefinger supports under the flint while the flint knapping hammer strikes the edge of the flint.

(https://i.ibb.co/h1tc7q0J/Fling-knapping5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x8RYC4Zt)

(https://i.ibb.co/cX6Pbf6m/Flint-Knapping-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5xrdYpr7)

(https://i.ibb.co/VWRyD7fp/flint-knapping-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lzmw6LVh)

(https://i.ibb.co/PJYW5GZ/flint-knapping2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MKh1RkD)
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Stoner creek on February 26, 2025, 09:41:21 PM
You’re knapping left handed. I’m completely useless left handed. 
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Don Steele on February 27, 2025, 01:16:58 AM
Daryl…Thanks for the great visual of knapping in the lock, with support.
I’m left handed… works for me..!  ;D
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Daryl on February 27, 2025, 03:56:49 AM
Taylor's hands - reverse for a rightly-handed person.
Apparently all people start out left handed as babies, but the more intelligent are able to drop that handicap and become right handed - or is it the other way around? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Darkhorse on February 27, 2025, 02:15:54 PM
It's the other way around Daryl.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Dennis Daigger on February 27, 2025, 06:09:42 PM
Dennis,
The best technique I’ve found is to pass the file left-to-right on both the top of the rock and along the bottom edge as well. Not trying to create a new, different bevel… just using the file to keep the bevel  edge even, not “ pitted “ or gouged. Minimal pressure is all that’s required. Let the tool do the work, your hand just guides it. Filing a flint to maintain its utility in the lock removes much less material than knapping, but it is slower.
Don, thanks for the explanation. This is basically hand grinding a facet and it was slow.
Dennis
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: RichG on February 27, 2025, 06:18:15 PM
I use a cheap diamond stone from Harbor Freight, works great. I just ordered a 120 grit diamond stone from wood craft for $30.00, should work even better. I usually put a new flint in a gun after cleaning and when I have a bunch of flints that need touched up I grab the stone and plug in a movie or watch a game and sharpen away.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Daryl on February 27, 2025, 10:24:05 PM
I knapp them on the cock & leave it there until it needs to be replaced.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: 83nubnEC on February 28, 2025, 12:07:21 AM
anyone ever use needle nose pliers? A tight squeeze and a little upward/backward pressure takes off littles chips of flint.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: recurve on February 28, 2025, 07:23:12 PM
I often suggest to people that you can nip the back of a flint to flint in the cock better with pliers, so it should work for the edge (safety glasses flint flake in the eye is more than a bad day)
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: Daryl on February 28, 2025, 09:23:27 PM
anyone ever use needle nose pliers? A tight squeeze and a little upward/backward pressure takes off littles chips of flint.

That is where/why I posted that small "tool" on page 1. A rocking motion is all that is required, while holding the cock back from the 1/2 cock notch with the thumb.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: alacran on March 01, 2025, 04:42:38 PM
I guess I just don't shoot enough. I always knap my flits on the cock and have never rounded a tumbler. I don't use those little hammers either.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: recurve on March 02, 2025, 11:36:51 PM
not yet,
  if you can avoid an accident why not  ( found in my over 30yrs in law enforcement it was easier to avoid , than clean up  a tragedy after words)
not all tumblers will fail ,
it takes only one to hurt or kill someone 
it takes so   little time to do things safe                      so  why not
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: 45-110 on March 03, 2025, 12:39:39 AM
God I never considered it possible to break the 1/2 cock notch while touching up the flint edge. Geeze are the guilty ones using a ball peen hammer? I can renew the edge by tapping with the back of the patch knife. My old Silers have survived 50 yrs of tapping.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: recurve on March 03, 2025, 02:19:57 AM
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=83842.msg821046#msg821046

here is a tumbler that has been replaced , I don't know why it chipped
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: bones92 on March 13, 2025, 03:54:27 PM
Wondering if a small brace would help, like a piece of wood with notched ends, on like a U-notch to fit around the neck of the cock, the other notched to rest on the back edge of the pan.  Make it just long enough that it stops the cock a few millimeters off of the half-cock position.   Even better would be a threaded rod with U-notched ends that can be adjusted to lengthen the brace. 
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: foresterdj on March 13, 2025, 07:56:41 PM
What do you think about this one?


(https://i.ibb.co/TBgkWBRg/broke-flint.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xS7DFSG7)

image hosting sites (https://imgbb.com/)

I actually shot it a couple more times, then tossed it and put in a new one. Figured it was beyond repair.
Title: Re: touching up flints
Post by: recurve on March 14, 2025, 12:18:39 AM
 If it's your only flint
If french knapped style turn it around and shoot
(https://i.ibb.co/ycxTmV8v/DSC03730-french.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)


(https://i.ibb.co/xq2sZGPS/DSC03730french2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/) it'a how it's knapped

if english knapped

(https://i.ibb.co/qMDy00j1/DSC03733e22.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

turn it around and flip it over the back might give a few shots(bevel down)