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General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Chocktaw Brave on February 25, 2025, 10:25:21 PM

Title: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on February 25, 2025, 10:25:21 PM
Well thanks to major eye surgery(detached retina) I was able o find time to work on my Hawken that’s been sitting dormant for over a year. I had about six weeks out of work, so in the last few weeks I picked up the rifle project again. This is my progress so far;
(https://i.ibb.co/cXKSss3c/IMG-3501.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3Y59PPdy)

(https://i.ibb.co/bjJRt4pG/IMG-3492.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JWQFZYXS)

(https://i.ibb.co/MkT7Cg8m/IMG-3496.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N2hKyF1M)

(https://i.ibb.co/278Hc4B7/IMG-3774.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qM0VmQwM)

(https://i.ibb.co/dJzHqkRM/IMG-3762.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lh2sW93R)

(https://i.ibb.co/0jH64q1W/IMG-3649.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DD0vc4m6)

(https://i.ibb.co/W4pxt5qN/IMG-3777.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q3jbdQz7)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on February 25, 2025, 10:58:07 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/WWZWmfDT/IMG-3759.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XZ1Zctyw)

(https://i.ibb.co/nMtKq1Fm/IMG-3650.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WvjRNzL5)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on February 25, 2025, 11:08:22 PM
This is where I left off last year.

(https://i.ibb.co/C3yB74r5/IMG-7793.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PvyxhJSZ)

upload photo (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: CooleyS on February 26, 2025, 06:16:10 PM
Looking good! Glad you were able to get back at it, despite the reason for being able to get back at it… looking forward to seeing the progress.
-Steve
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: reddogge on February 26, 2025, 08:34:34 PM
The only thing I noticed is the curve of the buttplate is more like a Tenn. Mtn. rifle. It's not too late to modify it more like this one.


(https://i.ibb.co/JRVRp8H9/231120-00bbbaa5b6dcaaf669e6462bbfbaaef6.png) (https://ibb.co/KjdjsBWJ)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on February 26, 2025, 09:02:25 PM
The stock and butt plate are from Pecatonnica River. I was trying to emulate the rifle in this picture.
I cut the stock to fit the butt plate that came with it.
(https://i.ibb.co/99dK0ByY/IMG-3547.png) (https://ibb.co/C5SCy4V0)

(https://i.ibb.co/HLwBtpBz/IMG-8799.jpg) (https://ibb.co/spxbKJbw)

(https://i.ibb.co/Qv10g5jf/IMG-8792.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s9M7fBJ2)

(https://i.ibb.co/cS5P1wfd/IMG-8793.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MxTbsfwL)

(https://i.ibb.co/23J7yc41/IMG-3795.png) (https://ibb.co/tpRM4YrT)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: whetrock on February 27, 2025, 05:46:36 AM
Chocktaw Brave,
I'm glad your eyes are recovering. I pray they continue to heal. I have retina issues, too. No fun at all.

Very nice work on the rifle.

The inlet on your rifle is very much like the inlet on the original rifle Ethan had on his website.

I think Reddogge was talking about the shape of the butt plate itself. There is a difference in the shape of the butt plates on your rifle and the one on Ethan's site. The wood to metal fit is the same, but the one in Ethan's photo has a lot more heel, and more curvature in the horizontal plane, as well. Those differences make the crescent shape deeper. And the heel on the rifle in Reddogge's photo is a bit more like the rifle on Ethan's website.

I look forward to seeing more photos of your rifle as it progresses.



(https://i.ibb.co/XrJ78zZj/Hawken-buttplate-shape.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on February 27, 2025, 09:08:43 AM
Oh, I see now more of a crescent  moon shape rather than a swooping shape.
Got it.
Due to the fact that I already have it finished, and my length of pull ended up being 13-3/4”, I don’t wanna make it any shorter.
So I think I’ll just leave it as is. I’m not trying to make an exact copy, just kind of basing it on the design of this rifle.
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on February 28, 2025, 08:12:38 PM
I have a question on the thickness of the wood beside the barrel.
About how thin should that taper down to?
Thank you
Here is where it’s at right now
(https://i.ibb.co/bjL9y9g0/IMG-3817.png) (https://ibb.co/XfpRdRZQ)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: reddogge on February 28, 2025, 09:19:11 PM
I would round off the corners and have the top edge a nice radius into the barrel.
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on March 01, 2025, 01:32:31 AM
I’m no artist, but something like this?
(https://i.ibb.co/pvf2jBhL/IMG-3822.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GvW7Q4H5)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: reddogge on March 01, 2025, 02:48:27 AM
Yes sir. Just don't leave any flat sides on it. Nice round curves.
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: CooleyS on March 01, 2025, 04:49:41 AM
I would suggest that you get a set of plans for a full stock Hawken. The plans will have profiles of the stock from the buttplate to the nose cap. From that I make templates that I cut from file folder type paper. The template half of the entire profile if that makes sense. In the picture below I would cut it in half along the vertical line. Then I can put the template up to the stock to see how it compares. I don’t have a set of full stock plans, but this is a profile from Track of the Wolf’s Kit Carson plans. The profile will obviously change somewhat in front of the entry pipe, but the top portion will not change. I can’t recommend a good set of plans enough.
-Steve

(https://i.ibb.co/JjCH9fXW/IMG-4866.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yFVqrwLm)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on March 01, 2025, 09:25:25 AM
A lot better than my drawing!
Thank you!
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on March 03, 2025, 02:51:53 AM
Managed to get the barrel keys all done today. I had to buy some longer 1/16” drill bits, and I made use of my exacto knife with a chisel blade, this made it easier to do the two reward ones than the first one. 
(https://i.ibb.co/cVpMHss/IMG-3844.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NbkQPGG)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: SteveK on March 03, 2025, 04:26:26 AM
Could you please tell me what the ramrod diameter is?
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on March 03, 2025, 08:43:45 AM
.375, or 3/8”
The caliber is .50
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: SteveK on March 10, 2025, 10:59:36 PM
I have a similar project going but I am having trouble finding 3/8ths ramrod pipes that are cast. Did you use cast or formed steel on yours? My stock was drilled for 3/8ths so I’d like to stay with that.
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on March 11, 2025, 02:15:07 AM
SteveK,
Because mine is an early Hawken build, the ramrod pipes are made out of sheet steel. I just plan on browning them like the barrel.
I’m not sure who makes 3/8 inch cast ramrod pipes.
I made a little bit of progress on the rifle this weekend. I managed to finish sanding the stock.
But then I had a couple setbacks.
I tried to put the rear sight in and ended up with the slot being slightly too large so now it moves around on its own. I’m thinking of JB weld or peening it, but I don’t wanna do it until I get the rifle sighted in because it’s not gonna move after I do it.
I also tried to round off the screw heads for the toe plate and the buttock and they ended up looking awful.
So now I had to order a new toe plate and screws for both the toe plate and the buttplate.
The guy at Pecatonnica thought it was kind of strange that I was ordering eight each of the screws. But I wanna have a couple to practice with.
(https://i.ibb.co/CKjTnRNM/IMG-3925.jpg) (https://ibb.co/23zfjGms)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Daryl on March 11, 2025, 02:31:37 AM
I would peen it on the back side as the overhang will cover the the marks. Glues, epoxy would not allow sighting it in.
Kind of a grubby looking sight you have there.
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: smylee grouch on March 11, 2025, 03:02:04 AM
Depending on how much too big the dovetail is , you might be able to stretch the base of the sight enough to give a snug fit .
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on March 11, 2025, 11:21:04 PM
Thank you,
Yeah, the picture was before I filed it and bead blasted  it.
I did order another one. I’m going to try it first because I did File on the sight somr to clean up the dovetail.
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: A.Merrill on March 14, 2025, 07:22:21 PM
Heat up the base of the sight and hammer it out.   Al
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Realwarrior on March 18, 2025, 08:01:29 PM
I'm following & enjoying your build. I'm getting ready to start a fullstock hawken in the next month or so, so thanks for the inspiration.
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on March 18, 2025, 11:38:01 PM
Thanks for all the tips and comments. I’m stalled in the stock, until I get the new toe plate and screws. So I think I’m going to start browning the steel parts, except for the barrel, which I still need to put the front sight on. And tighten up the rear one.
Hopefully I’ll make some more progress this weekend.
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Daryl on March 19, 2025, 12:47:58 AM
Here's an early one Taylor built.

Shown with a later one, both built at the same time with exactly the same finish and method on each. This just shows the difference in wood.

(https://i.ibb.co/0RmYFk3m/100-6524-zpsq9njnfbf.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1t7Rd3x7)

(https://i.ibb.co/Y47xJ5Lb/Flint-Full-Stock-Lock-Side.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5XWPCQR2)

(https://i.ibb.co/Xr3YbwmY/Flint-Fullstock.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q3CDf5sD)

(https://i.ibb.co/994nFSXG/Flint-Fullstock-Cheek-Piece.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1fXZDjVb)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on March 19, 2025, 09:30:13 PM
That is some beautiful wood on there. I think mine was kind of a medium grade. Has a lot of that curl in the front and it kinda gets sparse at the rear.
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on May 05, 2025, 08:11:44 AM
Progress has been slow, had to side track last month.
But I finally managed to get the ferric nitrate and the first  coatof tried and true on the stock.
I know your not supposed to put the nitrate in the inletted parts of the stock,
But what about the tried and true? Wouldn’t be a good idea to seal these parts of the stock?
(https://i.ibb.co/5hbFmKpX/IMG-4925.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nMxC9Pdq)

(https://i.ibb.co/CcPGwZf/IMG-4926.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mjNWRw3)

(https://i.ibb.co/HpkMWNLW/IMG-4927.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G3b1KsfK)

upload (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Darkhorse on May 05, 2025, 11:54:45 AM
I use Chambers finish and put it in all inlets and with a q tip in all holes. I had a rifle that was basically unsealed and the stock swelled and warped during a period of humid weather. That experience is why I try to totally seal my guns.
My two personal rifles, a 54 that's 25 years old and a 40 that's 20 years old are both sealed this way and have been out in all kinds of weather with no wood problems at all.
So I can't really see a reason not to totally seal the stock. Just because it might not have been done back in the day doesn't mean we can't do it today.
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: mikeyfirelock on May 05, 2025, 03:08:50 PM
You’re doing a great job !   Nice work !  Keep it up ! Just don’t get in a hurry ! ( the voice of experience here.)
mikeyfirelock
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Bob Roller on May 05, 2025, 03:23:14 PM
If I live  another 89 years I will still not see the reason for a crescent butt plate on any rifle and have wondered why those gun makers
couldn't figure out a better idea for a stock shape.
Bob Roller
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 05, 2025, 03:28:48 PM
If I live  another 89 years I will still not see the reason for a crescent butt plate on any rifle and have wondered why those gun makers
couldn't figure out a better idea for a stock shape.
Bob Roller

How dare you, Bob!  :)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Bob Roller on May 05, 2025, 03:41:14 PM
You know of my reference for the English locks and rifles that use them that were contemporaries to the Hawken and if Jake&Sam got the idea for their rifles from seeing an English rifle they quickly forgot it.I know that comparing a London rifle with a St.Louis rifle in that time is like comparing a stone axe with a fine saw.You have taken the Hawken style to a new level and those who like them have a fine choice and maybe you can come up with a better stock as an option.
Bob Roller
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on May 05, 2025, 09:05:41 PM
“You’re doing a great job !   Nice work !  Keep it up ! Just don’t get in a hurry ! ( the voice of experience here.)
mikeyfirelock“
Thank you,
It’s taken me over 40 years to get this rifle to this point. I hope that’s not rushing it!😃
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Steeltrap on May 06, 2025, 01:20:36 AM
If I live  another 89 years I will still not see the reason for a crescent butt plate on any rifle and have wondered why those gun makers
couldn't figure out a better idea for a stock shape.
Bob Roller

All they did was cut wood, plow fields with horses, skin and cut deer, and ride horses.  They had arm muscles like we have leg muscles.

That stinking curve was nuthin compared to building a log cabin!   ;)
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: Darkhorse on May 06, 2025, 06:04:44 AM
If I live  another 89 years I will still not see the reason for a crescent butt plate on any rifle and have wondered why those gun makers
couldn't figure out a better idea for a stock shape.
Bob Roller

In my experience a crescent buttplate can help anchor the stock during the shot. I have noticed flatter plates trying to slide up due to the weight of the barrel especially offhand. I have always assumed this was the reason for the crescent plates to begin with. But I will admit some of them do go to extremes.
Title: Re: Full stock early Hawken build
Post by: HighUintas on June 06, 2025, 05:17:13 AM
How is this coming along Choctaw? It's looking awesome and I'm excited to see it finished.

Sorry to hear about your eye. I have eye issues as well. It is a scary thing. I'm glad they're recovering.