AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: hortonstn on March 03, 2025, 04:59:59 AM
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Am I expecting to much for a 50cal rice d weight 44 inches long Flintlock to shoot and stay in a 3 inch group benchrest with sand bags on the ft with open sights and yes my eyesight is good with 10 years experience in benchrest with a Flintlock .rifle weighs 9 lbs shooting 60 yards
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you did not say the distance but here are some groups of 50 cals and open sights from the bench
(https://i.ibb.co/LzX9vZ0B/1stgetzgroup.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z6pcNMfv) getz 42 inch b weight 50yrds
where to store pics online (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/S797B90b/DSC03033-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vvKvkKmp)44 getz c weight
(https://i.ibb.co/B5WWVHLP/DSC03384.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xt99SKhs)hoyt b weight 42 inch
(https://i.ibb.co/5gKyV7rT/DSC03618.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yc41J360)
(https://i.ibb.co/67qYnf0W/DSC03775.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5gJTMfhR)hoyt gain twist b weight 38 inch
(https://i.ibb.co/JW2yMxJs/DSC03777.jpg) (https://ibb.co/35WMLfZC) same barrel at 100 yrds
I'm 65 need reading glasses and spend a lot of time working up the correct load
(https://i.ibb.co/WNTTqZZx/red-rifle-100yrds.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PsSS3KKm)here is my grandsons traditions rifle 3 inch at 100 just takes time at the range change one small thing at a time till you like the load and make sure it's repeatable
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With the right load combo and consistent loading and shooting technique I think your expectations are justified.
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With that combination, I would expect just under 1/2" to 3/4" at the most for 5 shot groups at 50 yds.
Wasn't many years ago I could do this with both .40 and .45 calibre barrels for the same rifle, replacing and shooting.
The combination of .005" under bore size and a 10 ounce denim patch, lubed with water based lube or just saliva - wet.
That is a nice, heavy barrel. That is what was on Taylor's Virginia to start. I would expect 1" to 2" at 100 yards.
(https://i.ibb.co/ynT1tGyN/DSCN1891.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cc5H0MFy)
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are you asking because you are not getting that kind of group from your current combination?
Could be many different things creating inconsistent groups.
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Maybe a little more break-in shooting. Where do you rest the barrel?
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Yes, I think you should get 3" or better at 100 if shooting in good conditions. Your stated 60 yards should be roughly half that, be generous and call it 2" at 60. I would not be satisfied with anything larger from a rifle. If you aren't getting it with a good tight load and have done powder charges from light to way more than you want to load, I would look to the crown next. It doesn't take a super duper barrel to shoot that kind of group for sure and crowns can cause issues quickly. If the crown looked good I would, in my case, sit someone else behind it and see if they could make it work or if no other good shooters around I would shoot the thing free recoil and see what type of group it will print.
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Mike barrel is 8 inches from muzzle where most can't bars are located
I have worked on the crown it's good
Going back to the range Thursday or Friday depending on the weather
Thanks for your suggestions
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I like to rest the rifle under the rear sights (my hand position when standing)
if using a silver sight blade try a different color target ( I can't see silver on a white target) I like card board (same color as a deer)
I also like a spot just the same size as the front sight at that distance (orange duct tape) or a triangle and raise the sight till it touches the sides very repeatable
(https://i.ibb.co/Q0kjykt/DSC03160.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YgXTHXw)
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Some suggestions.
I rest all my "sporting" rifles at the entry pipe. If I had a heavy bench gun that did not have a full or 1/2 stock with rod underneath,
I would sure rest it out on the barrel, testing location for accuracy. The further out you can rest it, the more movement it takes at
the rear end, to move the sights.
I have always, with 1/2 stocked & full stocked rifles, achieve the best accuracy at the entry pipe on the sand bag that is atop the adjustable rest.
The rest's elevation and windage adjustments are locked, so there is no vertical shaft movement in the rest itself. Any movement
in itself will add to group size.
Adding talc to both front and rear bags can also reduce group size.
I have not tried one of those Caldwell bags, that have a long V in them, approx. 18" so the forend is held quite well, and there is no need for a rear bag.
I see some of the air rifle testers using these. They look interesting, but as yet, I have not tried one.
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Maybe you need to do some more load development.
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You might consider a "cross" sighter target (I use masking tape to make mine). This gives you a better look at sight movement both up and down and sideways. It also helps verify that your front and rear sight alignment are consistent. It does not take much movement to open a group, even at 60 yards.
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Maybe I missed it. Flat bottom rifling or round bottom? That barrel is heavy enough to be stiff and stable.
I rest the back of my left hand on the front rest, and grip the fore end near the entry pipe. I dig my right elbow into a big cloth bag filled with beans. I sit upright. I find that if I let the fore end rest on the front bag, the barrel can whip and move enough to throw a shot out of a group before the ball leaves the barrel. By holding the fore end I can control that movement. I also find that offhand and benchrested give the same point of impact that way. Just my method. May not work for everyone.
God Bless, Marc
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Round groove
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keep at it, it took me 2yrs of trial and error to find my load for one of my rifles, one little change at a time and keep records of the results
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round groove = thicker patch .020 10 oz denim or canvas
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Maybe I missed it. Flat bottom rifling or round bottom? That barrel is heavy enough to be stiff and stable.
I rest the back of my left hand on the front rest, and grip the fore end near the entry pipe. I dig my right elbow into a big cloth bag filled with beans. I sit upright. I find that if I let the fore end rest on the front bag, the barrel can whip and move enough to throw a shot out of a group before the ball leaves the barrel. By holding the fore end I can control that movement. I also find that offhand and benchrested give the same point of impact that way. Just my method. May not work for everyone.
God Bless, Marc
Same hold I use, especially with long barrels(longer barrel time).