AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: hortonstn on March 14, 2025, 08:57:28 PM
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I ran a borescope down one of my barrels to my surprise I saw several brown spots I presume it's rust even though I clean with dawn and water then dry out with wd-40 then follow with rig
What's the best way to remove this?
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Just a little rust?
Not a big cancerios mess.
I'd work it over with Maroon Scotchbrite and Semichrome polish. I'd keep it wet with windex while I was polishing it.
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Another good one is AUTO SOL Metal Polish. It is a bit more aggressive than Flitz & JB Compound.
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Thanks guys yes it's just a little but I hate it I take extreme care of these barrels and don't understand where it came from if it matters is a round groove barrel
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I’d second the maroon scotch brite cut patches, and some scrubbing. You will probably have to drop down one jag size to accommodate the thickness.
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Try cleaning without the dish soap , and if your using hot water switch to room temp water and WD 40 after bore is dry to see if that works.
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To me, it's a "what you don't know won't hurt you" situation. I've never owned a borescope, never used one. I've been very active in all shooting sports my whole life, about 50 years at this point.
If you are looking at the spots, and have to stop them, just try scrubbing harder in those areas. Maybe use s nylon bristle brush, or some Tow. Use some CLP oil and see if it can be turned to black rust.
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What AZ or Daryl say.
I don't like Scotchbrite much as it scours the surface of the metal more than I like. The Solvol Autosol leaves a Very smooth surface, that is hard for rust to get a hold of.
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I have to agree with AZ shot. I clean as I always have. I never use WD 40 or soap. Last thing I do before oiling, is run 91% rubbing alcohol down the barrel.
It always brings out some more blackness. I dry the barrel with patches until they are hard to pull out.
If the rifle shoots the same as it did before you noticed these blemishes. I would not worry about it.
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The WD-40 could be turning to varnish. That has to be wiped out completely before oiling the bore.
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Soaps are not needed. Using ANY soap is not being good to your barrel. It is not needed, even if you use
an oil or grease lube.
After drying my barrels & locks are FLUSHED with WD40. Then that the WD40 pumped out the vent or nipple seat with a fresh cleaning patch,
several strokes, then the barrel and lock are wiped down and returned to the stock.
Been doing it this way since 1975 or 76.
NO rust, ever.
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Some of the guys I shoot with use windex to clean, the original with ammonia sounds wrong to me
Then oil I thought ammonia was bad!!
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Ammonia will react with some steels,(& some more than others) which is why smokeless powder and copper solvents with ammonia in them,
have a time limit for being in the bore. That time limit is 15min. for most of those solvents. Copper solvents without ammonia usually do not
work very well in my experience. Been using copper solvents since 1968.
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The WD-40 could be turning to varnish. That has to be wiped out completely before oiling the bore.
WD-40 does not turn into varnish, that's internet lore. All my dad used to clean his guns was WD-40. I got them after he died and there was no rust or varnish. They were just dry. Nothing a little oil didn't fix. If you're getting varnish some other oil caused it.
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IF you have a rough rusty bore it will foul up very quickly. You will have to clean between shots. That means cleaner in the bore. That causes misfires. I do not have the patience for that. Make it nice and shiny and have more fun shooting.
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Can you feel those rust spots with a cleaning patch? It will feel like a rough spot. If not it might not be rust at all. What patch lube are you using?
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Patch lube is machine oil/Mr kleen/water this is used by many benchrest shooters at Friendship
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The WD-40 could be turning to varnish. That has to be wiped out completely before oiling the bore.
WD-40 does not turn into varnish, that's internet lore. All my dad used to clean his guns was WD-40. I got them after he died and there was no rust or varnish. They were just dry. Nothing a little oil didn't fix. If you're getting varnish some other oil caused it.
Doing gunsmithing for several decades, I sure cleaned up a bunch of gummed up duck hunters guns from WD 40 build up.
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I can only assume, this "varnish" depends on how it is used.
The way I use it, Hawg uses it and Taylor uses it, we get no varnish.
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I can only assume, this "varnish" depends on how it is used.
The way I use it, Hawg uses it and Taylor uses it, we get no varnish.
Duck hunters have (had?) a habit of going home, and spraying the action full of WD40 and put it away until the next time.
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I can only assume, this "varnish" depends on how it is used.
The way I use it, Hawg uses it and Taylor uses it, we get no varnish.
Duck hunters have (had?) a habit of going home, and spraying the action full of WD40 and put it away until the next time.
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I use WD-40 as well, but follow up the next day with either straight ATF or ATF mixed with Marvel Mystery Oil and get no rust here in the humid Hudson Valley. Btw, the ATF+MMO mixture is good for lubing your bike chain too, as long as you wipe off the excess.
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I can only assume, this "varnish" depends on how it is used.
The way I use it, Hawg uses it and Taylor uses it, we get no varnish.
Duck hunters have (had?) a habit of going home, and spraying the action full of WD40 and put it away until the next time.
I've never heard of this BOZO method of cleaning a gun before.
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I can only assume, this "varnish" depends on how it is used.
The way I use it, Hawg uses it and Taylor uses it, we get no varnish.
Duck hunters have (had?) a habit of going home, and spraying the action full of WD40 and put it away until the next time.
I've never heard of this BOZO method of cleaning a gun before.
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It was pretty common 50 years ago. Not a lot of lubricants like are available now, and not all that much care taken of guns by some.
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I guess it depends on where you live. Even 60 years ago, I was using Hoppe's #9.
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The Windex some shooters use if often the clear "Windex with Vinegar". Long been used for cleaning in the BP rear stuffers. They also use Marvel Mystery Oil for a bore protector. Good for that use.
For any bore, try a good scrub with Mr. Flintlock or Lehigh Valley Lube (both basically the same formula). Bill Knight explained that it is the only cleaner that actually removes graphite. If you get grey or black on patches when you know the bore should be clean.....might be graphite.
WD-40 is a fine water displacing oil, but not great for preventing corrosion. I clean the bore with windshield washer fluid, clean again with Mr. Flintlock, dry patch it, and patch the bore with WD-40 to get the liquid out. Once home I dry the bore and wet-patch it with Break Free CLP for overnight. The next day I dry that out and put the preservative in the bore. That preservative gets cleaned out with 91% alcohol before the next time I shoot. No rust so far, and it is humid here.
The original Hoppe's #9 bore cleaner actually is not bad as a rust preventative. Just don't ever use it on a nickel plated gun or part.
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Good note on the Hoppe's #9 smokeless powder solvent. In rust prevention tests, it proved better than Hoppe's Gun Oil at preventing rust.
Hoppe's #9 (not the BP solvent) was beaten by only one or two others.
Here's what one bloke had to say (I personally have never heard of this product before)
"WD40 ``Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor'' is the best I have found to prevent rust. It's expensive. A 6.5 oz can goes for about $20 at the local hardward store. I use it on the barrel surfaces and in the bore. Firearms are kept displayed in a basement room and never see any signs of rust.Apr 2, 2019"
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I have not noticed any real difference in cleaning liquids and oils. As long as it has some water you are good. I do use regular windex, industrial window cleaner, plain water and moose milk. IT all does the same job. for oil I use mostly ATF with a little lanolin melted into it. Fluid film is a lanolin based rust preventer I use. As long as I completely clean the bore I get no rust.
The ammonia Windex vs vinegar Windex was from a BP cartridge book years ago, it was by Mike Venturino. He only stated that you do not want ammonia in your rifle. There was no reason given. I speculate that he was just guessing and did not test anything. I further speculate that the amount of ammona in windex is tiny. The amount of ammonia in copper remover for modern guns is large. If you clean the bore in the modern gun after the copper solvent, then oil you get no rust. IF ammonia was really a problem you'd see it here. Like so many things in the hobby it seems to be based no data.
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Did you ever notice that BP residue on your hands is slippery if you wet them. That's because those by-products are chemically basic, as is ammonia. You use vinegar and or vinegar added to Windex to neutralize them.
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Why does that matter?
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If you're cleaning BP cartridge empties fired with BP, you don't want to soak the brass in NH4OH as it weakens the brass. Also, Sweets 7.62, an ammonia based copper solvent, shouldn't be left in bbls. too long. Windex with vinegar probably works OK on ML's, but I don't use it or ammonia. Soapy water or 1 Ballistic : 6 water for swabbing work just fine for me.
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My barrel rusts like a demon when I use water to clean. Every way I tried, didn't work.
Now I'm just using hoppes BP cleaner and then a rust protectant which is patched out with any type of degreasing solvent before shooting. It seems to be working well! No more water cleaning for me if I can avoid it.
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Interesting. I've been using cold (tepid) water for cleaning my guns since about 1975 and none of them have rusted - ever.
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As for removing rust when this thread started, I would use 0000 steel wool on a caliber undersize Jag with white bore paste on it & do it over & over til rust was gone. then again with thick patches & bore paste. (It is ISSO or something like that)
I clean my rifles upside down in a cradle, use a flushing jig & the lock removed. 1/2 gal water with 1-2 oz of non-aerosol Ballistol in it & flush til it is clean. Take a breech scraper & check to see I got it all.
Clean the lock under a faucet with a toothbrush, Blow dry with air. Spray/soak with Barricade.
Dry it with patches & then squirt Non-Aerosol Barricade in the bore & pump that thoroughly & make sure it squirts out the vent hole.
Put a wet patch on the cleaning rod with jag & stand the rifle in the corner for 3 days muzzle down. Swab it one last time & then take out the rod & put it away.
I like doing them upside down as I don't want water under the lock or barrel channel.
Been doing this for prob 30 yrs now & no bore rust & have owned dozens of ML's. That waiting
3 days is Crucial. If I walk by it 1-2 day I swab it & put it back.
Takes me about 30 min to clean a rifle good. Takes ? 15 min to get set up.
I have it written down in more detail for my kids & grandkids. When I build a rifle for someone I
give them a copy of it. Some say it is too detailed. Could be, but it works. I know it is allot easier to Prevent rust, than it is to rid of rust. Your mileage may vary.
(https://i.ibb.co/Qvpjrmtf/Cleaning-Kit-b.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/RTtSLV7C/Cleaning-Rifle-a.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Put a wet patch on the cleaning rod with jag & stand the rifle in the corner for 3 days muzzle down.
Birddog6,
Can you explain a little more about the step quoted above? I'm not sure what this step involves. Are you leaving the wet patch and rod in the bore while the gun is sitting upside down? If that's what you are doing, then tell us more about this. If that's not what you are doing, then help us understand this step a little better. Thanks.
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As for removing rust when this thread started, I would use 0000 steel wool on a caliber undersize Jag with white bore paste on it & do it over & over til rust was gone. then again with thick patches & bore paste. (It is ISSO or something like that)
I clean my rifles upside down in a cradle, use a flushing jig & the lock removed. 1/2 gal water with 1-2 oz of non-aerosol Ballistol in it & flush til it is clean. Take a breech scraper & check to see I got it all.
Clean the lock under a faucet with a toothbrush, Blow dry with air. Spray/soak with Barricade.
Dry it with patches & then squirt Non-Aerosol Barricade in the bore & pump that thoroughly & make sure it squirts out the vent hole.
Put a wet patch on the cleaning rod with jag & stand the rifle in the corner for 3 days muzzle down. Swab it one last time & then take out the rod & put it away.
I like doing them upside down as I don't want water under the lock or barrel channel.
Been doing this for prob 30 yrs now & no bore rust & have owned dozens of ML's. That waiting
3 days is Crucial. If I walk by it 1-2 day I swab it & put it back.
Takes me about 30 min to clean a rifle good. Takes ? 15 min to get set up.
I have it written down in more detail for my kids & grandkids. When I build a rifle for someone I
give them a copy of it. Some say it is too detailed. Could be, but it works. I know it is allot easier to Prevent rust, than it is to rid of rust. Your mileage may vary.
(https://i.ibb.co/Qvpjrmtf/Cleaning-Kit-b.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/RTtSLV7C/Cleaning-Rifle-a.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I wouldn't mind having a copy of your detailed instructions. Is that possible? I'd like to try it.
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Put a wet patch on the cleaning rod with jag & stand the rifle in the corner for 3 days muzzle down.
Birddog6,
Can you explain a little more about the step quoted above? I'm not sure what this step involves. Are you leaving the wet patch and rod in the bore while the gun is sitting upside down? If that's what you are doing, then tell us more about this. If that's not what you are doing, then help us understand this step a little better. Thanks.
Yes, When all done & bore it dried. I squirt some non-aerosol Barricade in the bore & wet a patch & shove it all the way to the breech & force the excess out the vent hole (you best have a rag there, cause it will shoot out 20' ;D) and Leave patch, jag, & rod in the barrel & put it in the corner Inverted (muzzle down) for 3 days. Swab the bore 2nd & 3rd day. Pull the RR with patch & put the cleaned lock back on, put it in the safe.
It is Most Important this is all done with rifle Upside Down & I have the muzzle slightly lower than the breech end. This way no chance of any water getting under the barrel.
I will look up the directions. . I posted it years ago & was told it was to detailed & too much trouble. Well, for some that could be. All I know is it works.
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See Cleaning a Muzzleloader I just posted. It won't be there long. PC/HC police will be all
over it, as soon as they are done Buying a premade Stock, Barrel, Lock, Sights, Flints & Furniture to
assemble a rifle, & it will be gone.
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Thanks, Birddog,
Your details here help.
I imagine that one big benefit to leaving the rod in the bore is that it forces the user to remember that the process isn't yet finished. Otherwise, there may be a temptation to just call it done after the first day.
Thanks.
I'll also see your other post.
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Exactly. People say, "I cleaned it!"
One drop of water. Just one. Now we have a issue. Eliminate the human error.