AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Sequatchie Rifle on April 25, 2025, 03:04:09 PM

Title: Southern Rifle Identified- North Carolina
Post by: Sequatchie Rifle on April 25, 2025, 03:04:09 PM
I acquired this rifle a few years ago. It’s one of my favorites due to the condition and overall workmanship. Any opinions on where it was made or who made it?
(https://i.ibb.co/5WVR6SVz/IMG-4729.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bgnKPCny)

(https://i.ibb.co/bgw2YJWN/IMG-4730.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pvVRNy04)

(https://i.ibb.co/Qv7N9q5g/IMG-4731.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RwTWDQq)

(https://i.ibb.co/YFYWTtjv/IMG-4732.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LXbPhCp4)

(https://i.ibb.co/r2R0VKMP/IMG-4733.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wv45LNF9)

(https://i.ibb.co/zhxJJq3w/IMG-4734.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cc3LL4Wd)

(https://i.ibb.co/r2mRMj2D/IMG-4735.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XxbrpQxc)

(https://i.ibb.co/MyZZpBqm/IMG-4736.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kV550mYt)

(https://i.ibb.co/RGxWLrfj/IMG-4737.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gb5CsqN4)

(https://i.ibb.co/XkzgBFWq/IMG-4738.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yB81TgNr)

(https://i.ibb.co/39zsZrVF/IMG-4739.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jPR5X6qw)

(https://i.ibb.co/3XRF8Qv/IMG-4740.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pDhKs5Q)

(https://i.ibb.co/93CYPZC1/IMG-4741.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yBbs24bZ)

(https://i.ibb.co/4ZftJ059/IMG-4742.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rGt0vX1T)

(https://i.ibb.co/WW2XnXmm/IMG-4743.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1fmNZNFF)

(https://i.ibb.co/TM5pwv8d/IMG-4744.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nMSZwgct)

(https://i.ibb.co/yBSt1mNs/IMG-4745.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h1fbjxg8)

(https://i.ibb.co/DPkrDbF3/IMG-4746.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bjLbg3Vp)

(https://i.ibb.co/27M3DDhh/IMG-4747.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3yFmDDdd)

(https://i.ibb.co/whC021FV/IMG-4748.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zVbntwTp)

(https://i.ibb.co/Fq6PYxN2/IMG-4749.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5xT7jMtm)

(https://i.ibb.co/rK9qt3bm/IMG-4750.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nqp40B3b)

(https://i.ibb.co/spXzCXLS/IMG-4751.jpg) (https://ibb.co/V0k5xkXy)

(https://i.ibb.co/n2mVvYY/IMG-4752.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DXW6yvv)

(https://i.ibb.co/KZ1qdHr/IMG-4753.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BD1ZbRC)

(https://i.ibb.co/tTnWZkrR/IMG-4754.jpg) (https://ibb.co/21Rf8m4J)
Title: Re: Southern Rifle?
Post by: Sequatchie Rifle on April 25, 2025, 03:05:20 PM
Appears to be a .40 caliber and the straight barrel is 46 inches long.
Title: Re: Southern Rifle?
Post by: okawbow on April 25, 2025, 03:16:46 PM
I like that one! Anxious to hear what the experts say about it. Very nice rifle.
Title: Re: Southern Rifle?
Post by: A Scanlan on April 25, 2025, 04:16:18 PM
Sweet! The guard should be a clue.....and all the experts are in Knoxville today!
Title: Re: Southern Rifle?
Post by: Hungry Horse on April 26, 2025, 05:32:59 PM
I would say it looks like a Southern restock. I would suspect the triggerguard, lock, and triggers are from the original gun, and the rest was southern made to make it functional. The stock looks newer than some of the parts.

Hungry Horse
Title: Re: Southern Rifle?
Post by: Tanselman on April 27, 2025, 09:55:17 PM
The rifle, and particularly its cast nose cap, reminds me a bit of the work of Washington Hatfield of Indiana, who was trained in Fentress Co., Tennesse and soon after moved with his family up to Green County in southern Indiana to live and work. This rifle was NOT made by Hatfield, but the thought here is that there are obvious Tennessee details in the rifle with the walnut and iron, rear pipe arrangement, large side facings, pinned butt and toe plate, etc. and at least one major unexpected detail in the lower butt and forestock molding comprised of a flute with incised line above. A lot of backwoods Tennessee gunmakers didn't get that fancy.

The gun also looks very late to me, with its exceptionally thin butt, pushing it to after the Civil War. The gun could have been made by a Tennessee trained gunsmith who left a more remote backwoods area and moved to find better farmland and a better future, as Washington Hatfield did, and ended up in southern Kentucky, or perhaps southeastern Ohio or southern Indiana, or some other such "improved" rural area where a little more sophistication was expected in local guns, such as the unexpected lower butt/forestock molding lines, but the sleek "southern" style was still appreciated.

Shelby Gallien 

Title: Re: Southern Rifle?
Post by: gibster on April 27, 2025, 10:11:53 PM
Bill - I have a rifle that has similar treatment on the trigger guard as yours. There are a few other things that are similar as well.  The molding on the forearm and the double line from the toe plate to the guard, and the poured nose cap, while not exact, are similar in design.  My rifle is iron mounted and looks like a typical southern mountain rifle with closed loop on the guard and over the comb tang. When I saw the Canton, my first thought was Canton NC because of the styling of the rifle. But that's not the case. The rifle is still original flint. It is signed on the side of the barrel, P N Ritzel and under the name is Canton. In American Gunsmiths, it shows a P M Ritzel in Canton, Stark Co. Ohio as a rifle maker from 1846 - 1850, and strictly as a barrel maker in 1860. Not sure if it's the same guy based on the middle initial. I had found a census record at one time for P N, but can't find it now. It showed that in 1850, he was listed as a blacksmith in Shepherdstown WV and in 1860, again as a blacksmith in Canton Ohio. Wish I had kept a copy of it.  I feel sure that he was only the barrel maker of my rifle based on where he put his name, but who knows.  Here are a few pictures showing the similarities.

(https://i.ibb.co/zh6pxtTK/20250427-122401.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xSFWLrtV)

(https://i.ibb.co/ccDm0K30/20250427-122406.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d0GhFsMF)

(https://i.ibb.co/tpMSJTqC/20250427-124152.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1Gf3mtr2)

(https://i.ibb.co/5Xc4189b/20250427-124214.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZRTXf8Jq)
Title: Re: Southern Rifle Identified- North Carolina
Post by: Sequatchie Rifle on May 18, 2025, 10:22:58 PM
Identified today as a Lower Burke County or Lincoln County North Carolina rifle.
Title: Re: Southern Rifle Identified- North Carolina
Post by: Daniel Coats on May 18, 2025, 11:02:17 PM
I really like this rifle thanks for sharing!