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General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Jim Kibler on May 03, 2025, 09:18:56 PM

Title: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 03, 2025, 09:18:56 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/8gdNTp1F/Sheets-pistol-short-forearm-v93-1.png) (https://ibb.co/TMbYpS9z)

(https://i.ibb.co/3yC3N9c3/Sheets-pistol-short-forearm-v93.png) (https://ibb.co/WW2hy4fh)

(https://i.ibb.co/HLPWNr5z/Sheets-pistol-short-forearm-v93-8.png) (https://ibb.co/9m4FwqQT)
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: bob in the woods on May 03, 2025, 09:29:58 PM
 :) Wow !
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 03, 2025, 09:36:52 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/YTf7j3Zs/IMG-0103.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HpGDgVd8)

(https://i.ibb.co/whjBZn1z/IMG-0102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4R3KwbxV)
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Craig Wilcox on May 03, 2025, 09:57:17 PM
Nice, Jim!  But everyone will want two of them for dueling pistols - a boon for sales technique!
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: 2 shots on May 03, 2025, 10:08:14 PM
 very nice indeed. :o
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: smoke and flames on May 03, 2025, 10:49:00 PM
dang........  just as I was ready to start thinking of building a pistol, this comes along.  Think I might just wait till I can get one of these.  Great looking gun Jim.  any word on calibers and release date yet?
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Hawg on May 03, 2025, 11:03:06 PM
Cool!!
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Carl Young on May 03, 2025, 11:22:35 PM
You and Catherine continue to impress us, which isn't easy.
Wishing you much success!

Carl
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: mountainman on May 03, 2025, 11:46:16 PM
Wow!! Are these Kentuckies, or duelers?
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Bob Gerard on May 04, 2025, 12:47:45 AM
Cool! Will the inlays on the grip will be optional?
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Hawg on May 04, 2025, 12:49:36 AM
I want one to go with my woodsrunner.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 04, 2025, 12:57:43 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/HLPWNr5z/Sheets-pistol-short-forearm-v93-8.png) (https://ibb.co/9m4FwqQT)

So the original pair shown are signed J Sheets.  Most certainly John Sheets from Winchester and later Staunton VA.  I think these are really fantastic pistols that obviously were heavily influenced from English pistols of the period.  Call them Kentucky pistols, call them duelers, I don't know if anyone can really be certain.  In the end, it's all just a name.

As to the grip inlay, I don't know.  If I decide I like it enough it might be standard.  I've found that there's a group of our customers that tend to reject anything decorated to any degree (poor boy mentality) and part of my goal is to make guns that represent the decoration level of the day.  Hopefully in time people will end up appreciating what these actually were a little more.  As to the inlay, I think it balances the silver on the gun and actually looks pretty good.  You see some originals with inlays of this sort on the grips.


Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: JPK on May 04, 2025, 01:06:48 AM
This is what I’ve been waiting for!
Could I suggest you offer it with or without the inlays.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: smoke and flames on May 04, 2025, 03:20:04 AM
Jim  What lock would you be using on that pistol?
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Martin S. on May 04, 2025, 09:21:14 AM
Looks great!

You will sell a bunch of these!
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Hawg on May 04, 2025, 12:34:15 PM
I like the inlays and I'm not talented enough to do my own.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: alacran on May 04, 2025, 02:48:31 PM
So far that looks very nice. Interested in what barrels and twist rate you will be using.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Steeltrap on May 04, 2025, 03:02:54 PM
After spending 5-6 million hours building my pistol last winter……this is an option anyone should seriously consider!!

After all, you can pay with time…or pay with money. Anyway, at a “rate per hour” Jim’s pistol will be a bargain!!
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: elk killer on May 04, 2025, 03:37:55 PM
would brass and maybe silver be a option?
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim S on May 04, 2025, 03:53:39 PM
Any chance of making a percussion version?
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 04, 2025, 04:02:34 PM
So far that looks very nice. Interested in what barrels and twist rate you will be using.

They will be some fast twist appropriate for pistols.  Should go up to .54 caliber.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 04, 2025, 04:02:50 PM
Any chance of making a percussion version?

I doubt it.  Sorry
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 04, 2025, 04:04:45 PM
would brass and maybe silver be a option?

So, I have it designed or rendered with steel hardware.  This is a bit of a stretch as brass would be much more likely.  I just liked the color combinations of the steel better.  It might be available in either brass mounts or steel.  We'll see.  Silver will probably not happen just due to the cost.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 04, 2025, 04:05:13 PM
Jim  What lock would you be using on that pistol?

This will use our late Ketland lock.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: SBachner on May 04, 2025, 04:29:25 PM
Guess I'm not retiring from woodworking. I'll have to build a nice box to store two of these.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 04, 2025, 06:00:41 PM
I expect this to be available in the first quarter of 2026.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Daryl on May 04, 2025, 06:25:54 PM
An AMAZING "kit" from an AMAZING family business. BRAVO!!  ;D
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Paul from KY on May 04, 2025, 07:20:27 PM
My son and I were talking about the Hawken that Kibler has in the works, and we agreed that the Hawken will probably sell like hotcakes, but it would be nice if he made a pistol kit.  I won't buy the Hawken kit, but I will buy at least one pistol kit. 
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: HomerOla89 on May 04, 2025, 09:21:32 PM
Just ordered my SMR two weeks ago and dang, here goes next year’s gun budget.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: NDduckhunter on May 04, 2025, 09:23:23 PM
Is it a standing breach?
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 04, 2025, 09:27:23 PM
Is it a standing breach?

Thank you all so much for the encouragement.

No, it's not a standing breech.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Clark Badgett on May 05, 2025, 03:27:20 AM
I opened this hoping to see a 1756 LLP Bess. Now I’m pouting 😠      😆
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: NDduckhunter on May 05, 2025, 04:00:34 AM
It looks great, I like the original you based it on as well. I know a lot of people have been wanting a kibler pistol including me.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Joe Stein on May 05, 2025, 04:25:41 AM
It looks great, and I can't even complain that it isn't left handed 😂. This will eliminate the problems with trying to hold a pistol stock in a vise. I hope you offer it in both brass mounts and steel. Both ways would be awesome and maybe some of us would purchase both. . Thanks for this.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Frank on May 05, 2025, 06:45:28 AM
Outstanding Jim. I will order two of these to make a set of dueling pistols. What will be the barrel length and available calibers?
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Steeltrap on May 05, 2025, 04:46:00 PM
Missed it the first few times of the 3rd pic….disappearing tang!!!!
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Freedom on May 05, 2025, 05:01:18 PM
So far that looks very nice. Interested in what barrels and twist rate you will be using.

They will be some fast twist appropriate for pistols.  Should go up to .54 caliber.

Please, please make offer them up to 58cal. Been so waiting for a Colonial companion for my 58 Colonial. That looks like a fantastic pistol you have shaped out. Thank you, really looking forward to this piece :D
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Snowmoon on May 05, 2025, 07:03:09 PM
I opened this hoping to see a 1756 LLP Bess. Now I’m pouting 😠      😆

We will never give up hope for a Kibler Long Land Pattern 🙏 I would go for the 1742 Pattern to snag the most history on both continents (and perhaps India as well, my history there is a little murky). Plus, it calls for a wooden ramrod. I can't imagine how much fun people would have modifying a kit to represent different units, time periods, retrofitted/updated parts (like an iron ramrod), even mocking it up to resemble different patterns.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 05, 2025, 07:39:35 PM
I opened this hoping to see a 1756 LLP Bess. Now I’m pouting 😠      😆

We will never give up hope for a Kibler Long Land Pattern 🙏 I would go for the 1742 Pattern to snag the most history on both continents (and perhaps India as well, my history there is a little murky). Plus, it calls for a wooden ramrod. I can't imagine how much fun people would have modifying a kit to represent different units, time periods, retrofitted/updated parts (like an iron ramrod), even mocking it up to resemble different patterns.

I would like to do a kit.  If anyone has a really great original example that I can, buy, borrow, rent etc. let me know.  If someone can help facilitate this, the kit will certainly happen sooner!

Jim
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: HomerOla89 on May 05, 2025, 09:05:54 PM
Any ballpark estimate on pistol kit price relative to the rifle kits?
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Chocktaw Brave on May 05, 2025, 10:05:06 PM
Looks like a great accessory to my full stock Hawken, a follow up shot might be needed to take down a bear!
how soon will these be available?
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Steeltrap on May 06, 2025, 01:18:15 AM
Any ballpark estimate on pistol kit price relative to the rifle kits?

I'm not speaking for Jim, but the Clay Smith American Pistol Kit is $800. I'm sure Jim will be competitive with his prices, but I would tend to think Jim's pistol will require less work for a great end product.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Curtis on May 06, 2025, 07:15:56 AM
That pistol is just a dandy, Jim!  Nice.



Curtis
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: NDduckhunter on May 06, 2025, 05:08:41 PM
Jim, there is a Robert Wogdon Dueling Pistol for sale on gunbroker right now that is very similar to what you based your pistol off of in profile and grip shape ect.. I could be wrong but it appears iron mounted but might be silver or some other tarnished white metal hard to tell. On further search of wogdon I found another set with flat sided grips for sale that stated they were iron mounted too. It’s English built vs colonial built I know. Anyways I like the fact that you base your guns on original work and being able to look at originals with the same attributes is really nice to me.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 06, 2025, 05:30:45 PM
Jim, there is a Robert Wogdon Dueling Pistol for sale on gunbroker right now that is very similar to what you based your pistol off of in profile and grip shape ect.. I could be wrong but it appears iron mounted but might be silver or some other tarnished white metal hard to tell. It’s English built vs colonial built I know. Anyways I like the fact that you base your guns on original work and being able to look at originals with the same attributes is really nice to me.

Do you have a link by chance?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: NDduckhunter on May 06, 2025, 05:34:17 PM
Jim, I sent you a message with the links.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Scota4570 on May 06, 2025, 09:15:07 PM
Looks great, I will buy one for sure.

Question, would moving the rear sight to the tang be possible?  The longer sight radius is an advantage.  It could be integral to the tang.  That makes the tang stronger than cutting a dovetail.  The CNC does not care?  Adjustments can be done by filing and drifting the front sight. 

In my research I see english pistols of the time frame represented have it back there. 

The kit will have a plain trigger, I hope?  I'm not a fan of single set triggers. 

Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 06, 2025, 09:20:42 PM
Looks great, I will buy one for sure.

Question, would moving the rear sight to the tang be possible?  The longer sight radius is an advantage.  It could be integral to the tang.  That makes the tang stronger than cutting a dovetail.  The CNC does not care?  Adjustments can be done by filing and drifting the front sight. 

In my research I see english pistols of the time frame represented have it back there. 

The kit will have a plain trigger, I hope?  I'm not a fan of single set triggers.

Yeah, I could move it.  If further back, I would probably make it a little smaller, at least in length.  Thanks for the good suggestion.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Snowmoon on May 06, 2025, 10:17:07 PM
I opened this hoping to see a 1756 LLP Bess. Now I’m pouting 😠      😆

We will never give up hope for a Kibler Long Land Pattern 🙏 I would go for the 1742 Pattern to snag the most history on both continents (and perhaps India as well, my history there is a little murky). Plus, it calls for a wooden ramrod. I can't imagine how much fun people would have modifying a kit to represent different units, time periods, retrofitted/updated parts (like an iron ramrod), even mocking it up to resemble different patterns.

I would like to do a kit.  If anyone has a really great original example that I can, buy, borrow, rent etc. let me know.  If someone can help facilitate this, the kit will certainly happen sooner!

Jim

Good to know! I may have to keep an eye out online. I was just watching Dave Person's presentation on the history and techniques to accurately recreate the Bess and he had some great ideas. I bet Colonial Williamsburg or Mr. Person would be willing to lend a hand regarding originals.

https://youtu.be/a3l8ISmur54?si=VFhz6T5jqMRkM_hN
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on May 07, 2025, 01:13:59 AM
The tang...I see a simple flint tang in Jim's photos, and in the picture of the originals.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Kmcmichael on May 07, 2025, 02:22:44 AM
At last! I have been wanting to start my dueling career! .54 sounds great to me.
Glad you finally did this.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: alacran on May 07, 2025, 02:03:28 PM
Lots of interesting comments and suggestions. I suppose what you intend to use a pistol for has a lot to do with what a person would like to have.
If you want a pistol for serious target shooting anything above .45 caliber is too big. If you want a pistol as a backup for hunting anything below .54 is too small. The compromises for production may dictate a standard profile barrel which will make smaller caliber pistols too heavy.
There are lot of variables for Jim to consider. 
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Bob Roller on May 07, 2025, 02:34:29 PM
The German muzzle loading target pistols made by Helmut Mohr were 31 caliber in flint or percussion and most of them used locks I made over a long span of time.Economy loading for sure,
Bob Roller
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: homerifle on May 07, 2025, 04:03:09 PM
Jim, that is a good representation of the Winchester Virginia school. A few modifications on the sights could be made but are very close in location to originals of the period. Leaving it with less inlays would work for the majority of people buying it. That would leave it as an open canvas to those that would like to add inlays or maybe a little wire work. Brass furniture for sure.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Daryl on May 07, 2025, 06:16:11 PM
While I usually agree 100% with what alacran posts, here I have to differ.
Taylor built a Hawken pistol in the 70's that has an 18" rate of twist. It is .60 cal. We have both shot 50/50 3 to 4X with that pistol at 25 yards, standard pistol target(I think)
 We used 25gr. Powder, .020" patch and a .595" ball. He did make a .45val. Barrel for it for target but for serious competition  it wears the .60 cal. barrel.
I agree a backup pistol should be .54 or larger. I would suggest a piece of rifle barrel  to have to use heavier charges of powder, especially on bear. You would want it to count.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: alacran on May 07, 2025, 08:29:37 PM
Standard course if for pistol competition is 10 shots @ 25 yards and 10 shots at 50 yards off one hand in 30 minutes.
 I didn't say a .60 would not be accurate but it will wear you out.
I have never seen a period painting or drawing depicting pistol shooting with two hands.
Shooting a pistol with 2 hands is a fairly modern concept.
Up to at least the early 70s US Army qualification with a 1911 was one handed.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Daryl on May 07, 2025, 10:49:43 PM
2 hands is the way we were taught, as hitting quickly was the goal, 6 times, then reload and 6 more if necessary.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: The Pathfinder on May 08, 2025, 01:02:17 AM
Dang it, Jim, I just talked myself out of ordering someone else's pistol kit, now I know I'm going to be ordering a couple of yours once they become available. 54 in curly maple with brass furniture, please.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Daryl on May 08, 2025, 07:11:49 PM
Sounds like an excellent choice to me.
One for each hand.
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Bob Gerard on May 10, 2025, 04:33:26 PM
It occurred to me, after reading through the comments, that should Jim want to give some thought about reproducing a Brown Bess, particularly the 2nd Model that most Rev War reenactors use, they could sell like hotcakes. (Word of mouth in the hobby would also be free and positive advertising). With so much attention paid to “historical correctness” in the hobby, yet nearly everyone is walking around with bad-to-horrible reproduction muskets, this would separate the men from the boys and present a “ historically correct” option for thousands of reenactors.
Just a thought!
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Enfield on May 10, 2025, 09:00:48 PM
99% of all Brown Bess are from Italy..... Just to say... ::)
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 10, 2025, 09:04:07 PM
I’ll make a Brown Bess.  Help me get hold of an outstanding example and it will happen faster!
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Bob Roller on May 10, 2025, 09:50:08 PM
Add a belt hook so it can be carried loaded and primed.A 54 caliber back up,sort of?

Bob Roller
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Hudnut on May 11, 2025, 12:05:07 AM
I’ll make a Brown Bess.  Help me get hold of an outstanding example and it will happen faster!

There you go!  Who has a fine example?
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: 5judge on May 11, 2025, 01:19:14 AM
Mr. Kibler: I've a pattern 1756 Long Land, a Grice 1759 product. It's in decent shape, unmolested, and its only flaw is that the muzzle was trimmed back perhaps half an inch. The barrel is engraved "40 REGt Ft", a unit roughly handed in the January, 1777 Battle of Princeton, perhaps where it changed hands. Am open to discussing a loan for your proposed project.
(https://i.ibb.co/QjTjrH5f/DSC03821-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1JPJ8XSL)

(https://i.ibb.co/0pvp8smC/DSC03822.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hxwxhYLB)

(https://i.ibb.co/Q76m4VTk/DSC03823.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5X5cP3Sk)

(https://i.ibb.co/spKT3zTn/DSC03824-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8nry8tyq)
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Bob Gerard on May 11, 2025, 02:56:28 PM
Exciting!!! I know wouldn’t hesitate for a moment to get a Kibler Bess kit, and pretty darn sure there would be a wait list a mile long for one 👍🏻
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Brazos de Dios on May 11, 2025, 05:07:04 PM
I would prefer it in.58 smooth. This may be possible by having the .54 barrel bored smooth depending on the depth of the lands and the depth of the sight cuts.

Please use shallow sight cuts!
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Jim Kibler on May 11, 2025, 05:27:09 PM
Mr. Kibler: I've a pattern 1756 Long Land, a Grice 1759 product. It's in decent shape, unmolested, and its only flaw is that the muzzle was trimmed back perhaps half an inch. The barrel is engraved "40 REGt Ft", a unit roughly handed in the January, 1777 Battle of Princeton, perhaps where it changed hands. Am open to discussing a loan for your proposed project.
(https://i.ibb.co/QjTjrH5f/DSC03821-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1JPJ8XSL)

(https://i.ibb.co/0pvp8smC/DSC03822.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hxwxhYLB)

(https://i.ibb.co/Q76m4VTk/DSC03823.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5X5cP3Sk)

(https://i.ibb.co/spKT3zTn/DSC03824-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8nry8tyq)



Wow!  A generous and exciting possibility.  Let’s talk!
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: 5judge on May 12, 2025, 04:35:07 AM
judgefox29@gmail.com
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: duca on May 15, 2025, 12:04:32 AM
This is so exciting
Title: Re: Another upcoming kit
Post by: Rt5403 on May 15, 2025, 12:41:28 AM
If you could make a good 1816 springfield in flint and one of the common conversions the ACW community would go nuts lol.