AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Jim Kibler on May 03, 2025, 09:18:56 PM
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(https://i.ibb.co/8gdNTp1F/Sheets-pistol-short-forearm-v93-1.png) (https://ibb.co/TMbYpS9z)
(https://i.ibb.co/3yC3N9c3/Sheets-pistol-short-forearm-v93.png) (https://ibb.co/WW2hy4fh)
(https://i.ibb.co/HLPWNr5z/Sheets-pistol-short-forearm-v93-8.png) (https://ibb.co/9m4FwqQT)
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:) Wow !
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(https://i.ibb.co/YTf7j3Zs/IMG-0103.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HpGDgVd8)
(https://i.ibb.co/whjBZn1z/IMG-0102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4R3KwbxV)
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Nice, Jim! But everyone will want two of them for dueling pistols - a boon for sales technique!
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very nice indeed. :o
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dang........ just as I was ready to start thinking of building a pistol, this comes along. Think I might just wait till I can get one of these. Great looking gun Jim. any word on calibers and release date yet?
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Cool!!
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You and Catherine continue to impress us, which isn't easy.
Wishing you much success!
Carl
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Wow!! Are these Kentuckies, or duelers?
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Cool! Will the inlays on the grip will be optional?
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I want one to go with my woodsrunner.
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(https://i.ibb.co/HLPWNr5z/Sheets-pistol-short-forearm-v93-8.png) (https://ibb.co/9m4FwqQT)
So the original pair shown are signed J Sheets. Most certainly John Sheets from Winchester and later Staunton VA. I think these are really fantastic pistols that obviously were heavily influenced from English pistols of the period. Call them Kentucky pistols, call them duelers, I don't know if anyone can really be certain. In the end, it's all just a name.
As to the grip inlay, I don't know. If I decide I like it enough it might be standard. I've found that there's a group of our customers that tend to reject anything decorated to any degree (poor boy mentality) and part of my goal is to make guns that represent the decoration level of the day. Hopefully in time people will end up appreciating what these actually were a little more. As to the inlay, I think it balances the silver on the gun and actually looks pretty good. You see some originals with inlays of this sort on the grips.
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This is what I’ve been waiting for!
Could I suggest you offer it with or without the inlays.
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Jim What lock would you be using on that pistol?
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Looks great!
You will sell a bunch of these!
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I like the inlays and I'm not talented enough to do my own.
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So far that looks very nice. Interested in what barrels and twist rate you will be using.
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After spending 5-6 million hours building my pistol last winter……this is an option anyone should seriously consider!!
After all, you can pay with time…or pay with money. Anyway, at a “rate per hour” Jim’s pistol will be a bargain!!
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would brass and maybe silver be a option?
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Any chance of making a percussion version?
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So far that looks very nice. Interested in what barrels and twist rate you will be using.
They will be some fast twist appropriate for pistols. Should go up to .54 caliber.
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Any chance of making a percussion version?
I doubt it. Sorry
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would brass and maybe silver be a option?
So, I have it designed or rendered with steel hardware. This is a bit of a stretch as brass would be much more likely. I just liked the color combinations of the steel better. It might be available in either brass mounts or steel. We'll see. Silver will probably not happen just due to the cost.
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Jim What lock would you be using on that pistol?
This will use our late Ketland lock.
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Guess I'm not retiring from woodworking. I'll have to build a nice box to store two of these.
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I expect this to be available in the first quarter of 2026.
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An AMAZING "kit" from an AMAZING family business. BRAVO!! ;D
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My son and I were talking about the Hawken that Kibler has in the works, and we agreed that the Hawken will probably sell like hotcakes, but it would be nice if he made a pistol kit. I won't buy the Hawken kit, but I will buy at least one pistol kit.
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Just ordered my SMR two weeks ago and dang, here goes next year’s gun budget.
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Is it a standing breach?
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Is it a standing breach?
Thank you all so much for the encouragement.
No, it's not a standing breech.
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I opened this hoping to see a 1756 LLP Bess. Now I’m pouting 😠 😆
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It looks great, I like the original you based it on as well. I know a lot of people have been wanting a kibler pistol including me.
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It looks great, and I can't even complain that it isn't left handed 😂. This will eliminate the problems with trying to hold a pistol stock in a vise. I hope you offer it in both brass mounts and steel. Both ways would be awesome and maybe some of us would purchase both. . Thanks for this.
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Outstanding Jim. I will order two of these to make a set of dueling pistols. What will be the barrel length and available calibers?
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Missed it the first few times of the 3rd pic….disappearing tang!!!!
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So far that looks very nice. Interested in what barrels and twist rate you will be using.
They will be some fast twist appropriate for pistols. Should go up to .54 caliber.
Please, please make offer them up to 58cal. Been so waiting for a Colonial companion for my 58 Colonial. That looks like a fantastic pistol you have shaped out. Thank you, really looking forward to this piece :D
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I opened this hoping to see a 1756 LLP Bess. Now I’m pouting 😠 😆
We will never give up hope for a Kibler Long Land Pattern 🙏 I would go for the 1742 Pattern to snag the most history on both continents (and perhaps India as well, my history there is a little murky). Plus, it calls for a wooden ramrod. I can't imagine how much fun people would have modifying a kit to represent different units, time periods, retrofitted/updated parts (like an iron ramrod), even mocking it up to resemble different patterns.
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I opened this hoping to see a 1756 LLP Bess. Now I’m pouting 😠 😆
We will never give up hope for a Kibler Long Land Pattern 🙏 I would go for the 1742 Pattern to snag the most history on both continents (and perhaps India as well, my history there is a little murky). Plus, it calls for a wooden ramrod. I can't imagine how much fun people would have modifying a kit to represent different units, time periods, retrofitted/updated parts (like an iron ramrod), even mocking it up to resemble different patterns.
I would like to do a kit. If anyone has a really great original example that I can, buy, borrow, rent etc. let me know. If someone can help facilitate this, the kit will certainly happen sooner!
Jim
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Any ballpark estimate on pistol kit price relative to the rifle kits?
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Looks like a great accessory to my full stock Hawken, a follow up shot might be needed to take down a bear!
how soon will these be available?
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Any ballpark estimate on pistol kit price relative to the rifle kits?
I'm not speaking for Jim, but the Clay Smith American Pistol Kit is $800. I'm sure Jim will be competitive with his prices, but I would tend to think Jim's pistol will require less work for a great end product.
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That pistol is just a dandy, Jim! Nice.
Curtis
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Jim, there is a Robert Wogdon Dueling Pistol for sale on gunbroker right now that is very similar to what you based your pistol off of in profile and grip shape ect.. I could be wrong but it appears iron mounted but might be silver or some other tarnished white metal hard to tell. On further search of wogdon I found another set with flat sided grips for sale that stated they were iron mounted too. It’s English built vs colonial built I know. Anyways I like the fact that you base your guns on original work and being able to look at originals with the same attributes is really nice to me.
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Jim, there is a Robert Wogdon Dueling Pistol for sale on gunbroker right now that is very similar to what you based your pistol off of in profile and grip shape ect.. I could be wrong but it appears iron mounted but might be silver or some other tarnished white metal hard to tell. It’s English built vs colonial built I know. Anyways I like the fact that you base your guns on original work and being able to look at originals with the same attributes is really nice to me.
Do you have a link by chance? Thanks!
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Jim, I sent you a message with the links.
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Looks great, I will buy one for sure.
Question, would moving the rear sight to the tang be possible? The longer sight radius is an advantage. It could be integral to the tang. That makes the tang stronger than cutting a dovetail. The CNC does not care? Adjustments can be done by filing and drifting the front sight.
In my research I see english pistols of the time frame represented have it back there.
The kit will have a plain trigger, I hope? I'm not a fan of single set triggers.
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Looks great, I will buy one for sure.
Question, would moving the rear sight to the tang be possible? The longer sight radius is an advantage. It could be integral to the tang. That makes the tang stronger than cutting a dovetail. The CNC does not care? Adjustments can be done by filing and drifting the front sight.
In my research I see english pistols of the time frame represented have it back there.
The kit will have a plain trigger, I hope? I'm not a fan of single set triggers.
Yeah, I could move it. If further back, I would probably make it a little smaller, at least in length. Thanks for the good suggestion.
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I opened this hoping to see a 1756 LLP Bess. Now I’m pouting 😠 😆
We will never give up hope for a Kibler Long Land Pattern 🙏 I would go for the 1742 Pattern to snag the most history on both continents (and perhaps India as well, my history there is a little murky). Plus, it calls for a wooden ramrod. I can't imagine how much fun people would have modifying a kit to represent different units, time periods, retrofitted/updated parts (like an iron ramrod), even mocking it up to resemble different patterns.
I would like to do a kit. If anyone has a really great original example that I can, buy, borrow, rent etc. let me know. If someone can help facilitate this, the kit will certainly happen sooner!
Jim
Good to know! I may have to keep an eye out online. I was just watching Dave Person's presentation on the history and techniques to accurately recreate the Bess and he had some great ideas. I bet Colonial Williamsburg or Mr. Person would be willing to lend a hand regarding originals.
https://youtu.be/a3l8ISmur54?si=VFhz6T5jqMRkM_hN
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The tang...I see a simple flint tang in Jim's photos, and in the picture of the originals.
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At last! I have been wanting to start my dueling career! .54 sounds great to me.
Glad you finally did this.
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Lots of interesting comments and suggestions. I suppose what you intend to use a pistol for has a lot to do with what a person would like to have.
If you want a pistol for serious target shooting anything above .45 caliber is too big. If you want a pistol as a backup for hunting anything below .54 is too small. The compromises for production may dictate a standard profile barrel which will make smaller caliber pistols too heavy.
There are lot of variables for Jim to consider.
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The German muzzle loading target pistols made by Helmut Mohr were 31 caliber in flint or percussion and most of them used locks I made over a long span of time.Economy loading for sure,
Bob Roller
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Jim, that is a good representation of the Winchester Virginia school. A few modifications on the sights could be made but are very close in location to originals of the period. Leaving it with less inlays would work for the majority of people buying it. That would leave it as an open canvas to those that would like to add inlays or maybe a little wire work. Brass furniture for sure.
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While I usually agree 100% with what alacran posts, here I have to differ.
Taylor built a Hawken pistol in the 70's that has an 18" rate of twist. It is .60 cal. We have both shot 50/50 3 to 4X with that pistol at 25 yards, standard pistol target(I think)
We used 25gr. Powder, .020" patch and a .595" ball. He did make a .45val. Barrel for it for target but for serious competition it wears the .60 cal. barrel.
I agree a backup pistol should be .54 or larger. I would suggest a piece of rifle barrel to have to use heavier charges of powder, especially on bear. You would want it to count.
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Standard course if for pistol competition is 10 shots @ 25 yards and 10 shots at 50 yards off one hand in 30 minutes.
I didn't say a .60 would not be accurate but it will wear you out.
I have never seen a period painting or drawing depicting pistol shooting with two hands.
Shooting a pistol with 2 hands is a fairly modern concept.
Up to at least the early 70s US Army qualification with a 1911 was one handed.
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2 hands is the way we were taught, as hitting quickly was the goal, 6 times, then reload and 6 more if necessary.
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Dang it, Jim, I just talked myself out of ordering someone else's pistol kit, now I know I'm going to be ordering a couple of yours once they become available. 54 in curly maple with brass furniture, please.
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Sounds like an excellent choice to me.
One for each hand.
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It occurred to me, after reading through the comments, that should Jim want to give some thought about reproducing a Brown Bess, particularly the 2nd Model that most Rev War reenactors use, they could sell like hotcakes. (Word of mouth in the hobby would also be free and positive advertising). With so much attention paid to “historical correctness” in the hobby, yet nearly everyone is walking around with bad-to-horrible reproduction muskets, this would separate the men from the boys and present a “ historically correct” option for thousands of reenactors.
Just a thought!
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99% of all Brown Bess are from Italy..... Just to say... ::)
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I’ll make a Brown Bess. Help me get hold of an outstanding example and it will happen faster!
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Add a belt hook so it can be carried loaded and primed.A 54 caliber back up,sort of?
Bob Roller
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I’ll make a Brown Bess. Help me get hold of an outstanding example and it will happen faster!
There you go! Who has a fine example?
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Mr. Kibler: I've a pattern 1756 Long Land, a Grice 1759 product. It's in decent shape, unmolested, and its only flaw is that the muzzle was trimmed back perhaps half an inch. The barrel is engraved "40 REGt Ft", a unit roughly handed in the January, 1777 Battle of Princeton, perhaps where it changed hands. Am open to discussing a loan for your proposed project.
(https://i.ibb.co/QjTjrH5f/DSC03821-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1JPJ8XSL)
(https://i.ibb.co/0pvp8smC/DSC03822.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hxwxhYLB)
(https://i.ibb.co/Q76m4VTk/DSC03823.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5X5cP3Sk)
(https://i.ibb.co/spKT3zTn/DSC03824-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8nry8tyq)
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Exciting!!! I know wouldn’t hesitate for a moment to get a Kibler Bess kit, and pretty darn sure there would be a wait list a mile long for one 👍🏻
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I would prefer it in.58 smooth. This may be possible by having the .54 barrel bored smooth depending on the depth of the lands and the depth of the sight cuts.
Please use shallow sight cuts!
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Mr. Kibler: I've a pattern 1756 Long Land, a Grice 1759 product. It's in decent shape, unmolested, and its only flaw is that the muzzle was trimmed back perhaps half an inch. The barrel is engraved "40 REGt Ft", a unit roughly handed in the January, 1777 Battle of Princeton, perhaps where it changed hands. Am open to discussing a loan for your proposed project.
(https://i.ibb.co/QjTjrH5f/DSC03821-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1JPJ8XSL)
(https://i.ibb.co/0pvp8smC/DSC03822.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hxwxhYLB)
(https://i.ibb.co/Q76m4VTk/DSC03823.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5X5cP3Sk)
(https://i.ibb.co/spKT3zTn/DSC03824-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8nry8tyq)
Wow! A generous and exciting possibility. Let’s talk!
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judgefox29@gmail.com
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This is so exciting
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If you could make a good 1816 springfield in flint and one of the common conversions the ACW community would go nuts lol.