AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Steeltrap on May 20, 2025, 01:03:15 AM
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I finally took the time to take just my 45 cal flint rifle to the range. I left all other flinter's home to focus on this rifle.
The range was busy so I took a few shots before getting my targets out.
Anyway, at 50 yards I shot a group .440 Hornady RB, .15 pillow ticking patch, Ballisto lube. The rifle shot a tighter group with the higher 65 gr load.
I've never owned a 45 cal before and my 50 cal and 54 cal loads are 100gr 2F. I haven't done a search but I would think 100gr of powder in a 45 is wasting powder.
Any thoughts on going higher......or even lower on the powder charge? And next time I'll use some Mink Oil lube on the patches to see if they make a difference.
(https://i.imgur.com/4M472Ogl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/UnrjeMll.jpg)
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my 45 flint has a 1-56 twist barrel and I use 445 ball .018 ticking moose milk and 60 gr 3f Olde Eynsford for plinking and trail walks.
I think if you're going to use .440 rb you'll want a thicker patch. anything around 55-60 gr should work for general use.
I do use a .440 rb and .015 patch with mink oil for hunting, but it takes 75gr of 3f to get it to shoot. The load needs to have enough pressure to bump up the ball. Loads without a short starter and gets just over 2000fps. With same load and 80 gr 3f it will occasionally burnout the patch. I can' imagine any reason to go higher than 75-80 gr in a 45.
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Load development is something that I really enjoy doing. I would start at 45 grains of 3F using the mink oil. Go up 5 grains at a time after shooting a 5 shot group at 50 yards. I can't see much of a reason to go above 65-70 grains. Then change 1 variable such as patch thickness (I would use a .018-.020 patch) and repeat the procedure starting at 45 grains again. Another variable would be to use a larger ball such as .445. Once you find a load that really works, make sure it is repeatable then you are there. If all you have is 2F then follow the same procedure as before but you might go as high as 75-80 grains. People get carried away with the amount of powder they use. Good luck and show us some more targets as you find what works.
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As Rich G has basically stated, but to further clarify - if your using an oily or greasy type of lube, you will typically have to increase the velocity (with more powder charge) to get it grouping well. I’d probably start at 65 grains with your lube, and work up to the 75 gr range. If your using a water-based lube (window cleaner, water, spit, etc), you can drop it back to more of the “a grain of powder per caliber” range as a starting point (45 gr in this case). I don’t know all the physics behind why there is a difference, I just have observed enough of the results in the field, and from others similar shooting experiences on here.
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I would add you should use a sturdy bench and rest to do load workups ,taking you the out of the shots.
You want to find what your rifle likes, and than sight in after finding the best repeatable load
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All great advice. Thanks gents!!
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As Rich G has basically stated, but to further clarify - if your using an oily or greasy type of lube, you will typically have to increase the velocity (with more powder charge) to get it grouping well. I’d probably start at 65 grains with your lube, and work up to the 75 gr range. If your using a water-based lube (window cleaner, water, spit, etc), you can drop it back to more of the “a grain of powder per caliber” range as a starting point (45 gr in this case). I don’t know all the physics behind why there is a difference, I just have observed enough of the results in the field, and from others similar shooting experiences on here.
I would not start at 45gr., but perhaps that is just me. Otherwise, good advice.
My .45 with Green Mountain barrel with 60" ROT liked wet(water-based)lubes with 65gr. 3F GOEX. With LHV (slippery) lube I had to increase that to 75gr. 3F and 85gr. 2F to get the same accuracy & POI.
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Keep working on your load. Only your rifle can tell you what it likes? Are you shooting off of a rest shown in the photos? That could be why your groups aren't super at 50 yards. When doing load development, I hold the gun in my hands like offhand, but am seated at a bench with my front hand resting on a sandbag or rest. I find longrifles and any BP guns shoot better when not using modern sandbag techniques. You need to control that rifle while the ball (relatively) slowly works its way down that long barrel after ignition.
Each .50 I have shot likes between 72 and 75 grains of 2F. Something like a sweet spot there. Slow twist. You may find 3f to be better than 2f in a .45, but work with both. As you ladder up in 5 grain increments, listen for the rifle to start to "crack". You'll be approaching your accuracy load.
Hope this helps. God Bless, Marc
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The “rest” in the photo is not what I use at the range. That rest is just for cleaning…or photo taking.
I use a bench rest “heavy shot” rear and an iron tri-pod front rest with leather packed with bean.
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I expected as much from your other posts here, Steeltrap.
Your .45, with best loads and patches, will make 1/2", 5 shot groups at 50yards, if your eyes are up to it.
IN this target I was working my way up with LehighValley lube and was at 70grs. I ended up at 75 as best load but cannot find that target.
Appears I was also only using an 18 thou. OxYoke patch here as well. I actually prefer .021" or thicker.
(https://i.ibb.co/WN3xHYbZ/Flinter-groups-50-yds.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5X9M1fNm)
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Start at 45 grains of 3f and go up.....Every and I repeat every rifle has a different "sweet spot"....Do not get caught up on bench results off of padded sacks unless that is how you plan to do most of your shooting. Such things are for modern rifles and paper punchers and teach us nothing about shooting long rifles.
Longrifles are designed to be shot off hand and that is how you want to sight in if you are a hunter. You will rarely find a shooting bench in the woods to take a rest on....Avoid shooting at bulls, dots, and crosses as deer do not have them painted on their sides. A blank piece of cardboard works great. Start close, maybe ten yards or even less. Get a feel for the gun. Practice perfect hold and trigger pull. Shoot till your balls touch. Adjust final sighting to that.
Then back up little by little until you can keep them tight at your desired range adjusting your charges as you go. Simple guns do not need unsimple methods to shoot very well. Do check for patches as they are the most overlooked thing in shooting. Use the thickest patch you can if your gun is rifled. Learn the difference between a blown patch and one damaged by a sharp crown and you will be set. If your patching is sound you should be able to reuse them in a pinch as they will only be soiled by the powder......Hope this helps!
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FIND your best grouping load off a good bench... Then SIGHT it in. ;)
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(https://i.ibb.co/KjyMdd5P/P4231701.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bgdSTT60)
This target with the .40 Goodioen barrel (from Track) on my flinter rifle, shows the same load for all, except for ball diameter.
In the top left (7shots) and centre targets (5) I used a .400" x .400" ball. In the top and bottom right hand targets (5 ea.), I used the ball from the other
cavity that cast a .400" x .392" oblong ball. Note the bench-rest grouping compared to the offhand grouping of each.
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Start at 45 grains of 3f and go up.....Every and I repeat every rifle has a different "sweet spot"....Do not get caught up on bench results off of padded sacks unless that is how you plan to do most of your shooting. Such things are for modern rifles and paper punchers and teach us nothing about shooting long rifles.
Longrifles are designed to be shot off hand and that is how you want to sight in if you are a hunter. You will rarely find a shooting bench in the woods to take a rest on....Avoid shooting at bulls, dots, and crosses as deer do not have them painted on their sides. A blank piece of cardboard works great. Start close, maybe ten yards or even less. Get a feel for the gun. Practice perfect hold and trigger pull. Shoot till your balls touch. Adjust final sighting to that.
Then back up little by little until you can keep them tight at your desired range adjusting your charges as you go. Simple guns do not need unsimple methods to shoot very well. Do check for patches as they are the most overlooked thing in shooting. Use the thickest patch you can if your gun is rifled. Learn the difference between a blown patch and one damaged by a sharp crown and you will be set. If your patching is sound you should be able to reuse them in a pinch as they will only be soiled by the powder......Hope this helps!
Well....I dunno where you're from....but around these parts all our deer have targets on 'em. I think it was a change "darted" into their genetic code!! But in all seriousness, I understand what you're saying. However, I usually place a chunk of blue painter tape on the target for my POA. Having a blank paper for POA doesn't work in my head. As for hunting, I usually hit 'em in the lungs.
(https://i.imgur.com/PbEW3UMl.jpg)
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There are some who confuse load development with sighting in. There is a difference! ;)
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Without a proper load being established, sighting in will be rendered futile. Without proper sighting in and good form, a proper load will also be rendered futile.
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Without a proper load being established, sighting in will be rendered futile. Without proper sighting in and good form, a proper load will also be rendered futile.
Was that known as the "Feudal Period"? ::)
Yup. Once I get the load to where I like it, I will then focus on sighting it in.
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(https://i.ibb.co/KjyMdd5P/P4231701.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bgdSTT60)
This target with the .40 Goodioen barrel (from Track) on my flinter rifle, shows the same load for all, except for ball diameter.
In the top left (7shots) and centre targets (5) I used a .400" x .400" ball. In the top and bottom right hand targets (5 ea.), I used the ball from the other
cavity that cast a .400" x .392" oblong ball. Note the bench-rest grouping compared to the offhand grouping of each.
This post lends perfect credence to my point.....The point being that setting up a gun on a bench will not guarantee good off hand shooting since good form and the ability to hold on target is removed. Not that bench rest shooting is not a skill, but rather it is not a skill that the hunting rifleman needs to achieve good groups. In fact, it is my belief that the constant use of a bench is a handicap to good offhand shooting because many spend the vast majority of their shooting time on a bench....In my opinion it creates a crutch as it were, in the same way sights are a crutch on a hunting bow. Many times those who rely on bench rested sighting need to be near a tree or a natural blow down for a rest when taking a shot on deer.
Once good offhand form and follow through is gained, good groups will follow. The mere design of a well built longrifle lends itself perfectly to being held and shot offhand. Emphasis on "well built" is important. A long swamped barrel in a perfectly balanced stock will hang motionless in the hand and provide a perfect "natural" bench so to speak with practice. I will also add that I feel benched sighted guns will shoot differently when shot offhand due to the dynamics of the differing forms, which is why I do not not use them (benches) for sighting in a hunting gun. Add to that, I find bench shooting terribly boring and uncomfortable to boot.
With that said, your offhand groups look pretty good.
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Could someone define what a developed "load" is?
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Without a proper load being established, sighting in will be rendered futile. Without proper sighting in and good form, a proper load will also be rendered futile.
Was that known as the "Feudal Period"? ::)
Yup. Once I get the load to where I like it, I will then focus on sighting it in.
Exactly!.....In my first post to this thread I thought I was pretty clear that when shooting offhand you still have to get your "balls touching" before you do your sighting in. What many call "developing a load".... :D.........My point is you don't need a bench to do that..... ;D
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There are novices, intermediate shooters, and those you don’t want to see showing up at the offhand match in f you want to be in the money. And old fellas who can’t see the sight or hold as they used to. Developing an accurate load using a bench is useful for at least 3 of 4 shooters to reduce operator error and avoid confusing lucky wobbles with a good load or bad wobbles with a poor load.
Many ways to skin a cat - not just my way.
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Could someone define what a developed "load" is?
For me, a "developed load" is one that will shoot into 1/2" at 50 yards. Anymore, 4 out of 5 is about the best I can do.
If you can do that standing, more power to you. I have found that 1/2" or better 5-shot at 25 yards, do-able years ago offhand for me, can shoot up to
2 1/2" at 50yards from a rest. That is not a 'developed load" for that rifle. 1/2" at 50 yards is, for me. Maybe I an an anomaly but I will not put up with
inferior accuracy. Accuracy shooting is all I do nowadays. I found my accuracy development worked well for me in the hunting field as well, moose being
my quarry. Big X-ring on a moose, but I know with the loads I developed for THAT rifle, the ball went where the sights were, whether rested or standing.
It takes a bench-rest to do find a load and sight it in I've found, but I've only been "doing" this since 1972, so maybe I am out if left field and all mixed up.
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Daryl, the best offhand and bench shooters I know are very systematic like you and eliminate as many variables as possible, then change one thing at a time. I learned a lot while in the Gemmer ML club in St.Louis. Some by watching, some by asking.
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Could someone define what a developed "load" is?
A "Developed Load"? I would say that the definition of a developed load is the proper combination of patch, lube, and powder charge that provides the consistently smallest group at point of impact (POI) for that specific rifle.
"Load Development" on the other hand, is the process of trying different patches (material and thickness), lube's, and powder charges to determine which combination achieves the smallest acceptable (acceptable to the shooter) POI groups.
;D
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Could someone define what a developed "load" is?
A "Developed Load"? I would say that the definition of a developed load is the proper combination of patch, lube, and powder charge that provides the consistently smallest group at point of impact (POI) for that specific rifle.
"Load Development" on the other hand, is the process of trying different patches (material and thickness), lube's, and powder charges to determine which combination achieves the smallest acceptable (acceptable to the shooter) POI groups.
;D
So another question since we all seem to agree on how a load is developed .......can a sound load be developed without the use of a padded shooting bench?....In other words, can one develop a sound load by using their arm to support the rifle at it's forearm instead of a bench pad to support it.
I am not talking about going back at 50 yards and shooting at a bull with a shaky hold. I am talking about working up a load after the skill of holding the gun motionless and a clean trigger pull is first achieved. Can it be done?
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I think you're parsing the difference between load development and marksmanship.
I have a physical disability where I can hold the rifle up and very steady for perhaps two shots in a row. After that, the front sight will get wobbly as the ability to hold steady with the left arm diminishes.
It's no problem for hunting. But for repetitive bench shooting it's a different matter.
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Daryl, the best offhand and bench shooters I know are very systematic like you and eliminate as many variables as possible, then change one thing at a time. I learned a lot while in the Gemmer ML club in St.Louis. Some by watching, some by asking.
I guess I will have to eliminate myself.
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I think you're parsing the difference between load development and marksmanship.
I have a physical disability where I can hold the rifle up and very steady for perhaps two shots in a row. After that, the front sight will get wobbly as the ability to hold steady with the left arm diminishes.
It's no problem for hunting. But for repetitive bench shooting it's a different matter.
Sorry to hear about your disability, but I am not parsing anything.....Go back and read my initial post. I clearly state that a load is developed before the sighting in process. What I am suggesting is that a sound hunting load can be developed without the use of a shooting bench, that's all. I am a hunter, and not a bench shooter. I thought I made that clear. I am in no way suggesting that a sound load cannot be developed from a bench, because it can. I am simply suggesting that there are other ways.
As for "marksmanship". That is a subjective matter. I'll use archery as an example. I shoot longbows of my own design for hunting and target work. I am very happy to have groups that are inside of the area of an apple at 20 yards with my instinctive style of shooting.....Those shooting off of cabled platforms with fixed sights and triggered releases expect the same accuracy at 75 yards.
If I can get my balls to cut the same hole at 25 paces with my smoothbore without a rear sight while shot offhand with my old shoulders, I am tickled. To the bench shooter that is child's play. While I consider bench shooting to be unnecessary for working up a good load, I do recognize that it is a a skill unto itself. The many bench rifles and contests point to this reality. It is a serious segment of our "sport". In the same way that Olympic recurve shooting in the field is a serious segment of archery......Just not my cup of tea.
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So let me ask this question about patch lube. For example, when using Mink oil, do you melt it into your patches…or “swipe” it on one side of the patch? (The side that contacts the barrel)
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I have the best luck when my patches are saturated regardless of what lube I use.
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Took some time today and went to the range. I tried three lubes at 50gr-3F, then 60gr-3F, and 65gr 3-F. Now I didn't take any pics of the groups shot with patches soaked in SPG lube. They were all 9" or greater no matter what the powder charge was. So...that was 9 shots worthy of knowing not to use that lube.
The two other lubes were first, Mink Oil, and then Bee's wax.
The first pic shows the best 50 yard group using the patch lubed in Bees Wax, 60gr 3F. That was 3-shot, 3".
The second pic shows Bees Was lube, 65gr 3F, 50yd 3-shot 4". The hole on the lower right of that pic was from the "monster" group using SPG...so ignore that.
The third pic shows Mink Oil lube, 60gr 3F, 50yd 3-shot 4.5" group. I also shot with Mink Oil using 65gr 3F...but the groups opened up far too much.
Now, I started with 3 shot groups using the three different lubes (SPG, Mink, Bees) at 50gr 3-F, but those groupings were miserable. Instead of trying 55gr. 3F I jumped to 60gr., then to 65gr.
But what this did show me was the rifle didn't like SPG. It also didn't like 50gr of powder. However, since I jumped from 50gr to 60gr and the groups closed.....but then when I went to 65gr, they opened up again.
So, next trip I need to see what a 3 shot group is using 55gr 3F. And if 55gr closes the group, I may need to try 57gr or 58gr just to see what that does. I know when doing load development for those unmentionable cartridges, at times a few grains made a big difference. I don't expect big differences from BP....but won't know until I try.
(https://i.imgur.com/sceuZV2l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FGBM3gxl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PP73R50l.jpg)
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What works for some doesn't work for others. I shot this target during load testing off a bench just like I always do. I do not rest the barrel on my hand but I do steady the rifle with my index finger against the wood beside the barrel. My impact point doesn't change offhand or on game, and a squirrels head is a small target. I'm 73 and have shot enough offhand matches and game to know this for a fact.
(https://i.ibb.co/XxTw2nTs/CCI06272017-0002-657x1024.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v48twN8P)
And this is the exact bench and setup I use.
(https://i.ibb.co/nNTKm90X/54-on-bench.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5gdJ4m9Q)
I want the tightest groups possible when I develop a load and the bench is the only way I can get that. And when I sight that load in I want to split hairs on my aiming point. Again the bench is the only way I can get that.
Don't sell the bench short. It teaches breath and trigger control and sight alignment. For consistent accuracy your form must be correct just as in offhand shooting.
What has always perplexed me is why don't most others get the same results I do?
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What barrel does your rifle have? Is it a rice or Colrain? If so, you may want to try thicker patches and a heavier powder charge.
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What do your fired patches look like or did I miss it? Any burn through on one side no matter how slight causes me to re-think the patch/lube/muzzle relation. My tightest groups always have a patch that I can re-use if I really needed to. They'll have a brown burn ring showing the rifling imprint and no burn through. There may be fire oozing through each groove around the patch but being equal I don't think it throws the shot off. I strive to find really good, fired patches.
Bob
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The Barrel is a Green Mt.
I did pick up and examine about 6 or so patches. Now, I couldn't tell you if one was for sure fired with 65gr or 50gr.
But, a few had the ball sort of "blacked" in the center. I'm guessing that may have been the SPG lube, or the one's fired with 65gr. A few had the brown burn ring you speak of with some brown showing the rifling. None were burned through and I could have reused all 6 or so that I picked up.
I swabbed after every three shots. When the barrel was squeaky new if I didn't swab, I'd stick a ball. That's when the fun began.
On my other GM barrels in .50 and .54 a stuck ball wasn't near as tough to remove. Or maybe I'm getting older?
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Muzzle treatment will allow you unlimited # of shots in a day's shooting with NEVER a stuck ball. Brown streaks running with the rigling are scorch Mark's of blowby flame.
Your load combination is not what I would consider a good one.
My .45 GM barrel, when using LehighValley Lube showed a preference for 75gr. GOEX. The patch was .0225"(10ounce denim from 5 yrs. ago) with a .445" ball. Short started and seated with the rifle's 3/8" tapered hickory rod. The bel. for that load was 2,240fps delivering consistent 1/2" groups at 50yds benched. Identical vel. to the rifle's other barrel, a .40 Goodoien with 65gr. GOEX, same lube and .398" ball. The bore of that rifle was also .398" land to land, same patch, same rod.
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The Barrel is a Green Mt.
I did pick up and examine about 6 or so patches. Now, I couldn't tell you if one was for sure fired with 65gr or 50gr.
But, a few had the ball sort of "blacked" in the center. I'm guessing that may have been the SPG lube, or the one's fired with 65gr. A few had the brown burn ring you speak of with some brown showing the rifling. None were burned through and I could have reused all 6 or so that I picked up.
I swabbed after every three shots. When the barrel was squeaky new if I didn't swab, I'd stick a ball. That's when the fun began.
On my other GM barrels in .50 and .54 a stuck ball wasn't near as tough to remove. Or maybe I'm getting older?
In my opinion, you may want to go with a .445 ball with your patch or switch to a .020-.022 patch with your .440 ball.
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Muzzle treatment will allow you unlimited # of shots in a day's shooting with NEVER a stuck ball. Brown streaks running with the rigling are scorch Mark's of blowby flame.
Your load combination is not what I would consider a good one.
My .45 GM barrel, when using LehighValley Lube showed a preference for 75gr. GOEX. The patch was .0225"(10ounce denim from 5 yrs. ago) with a .445" ball. Short started and seated with the rifle's 3/8" tapered hickory rod. The bel. for that load was 2,240fps delivering consistent 1/2" groups at 50yds benched. Identical vel. to the rifle's other barrel, a .40 Goodoien with 65gr. GOEX, same lube and .398" ball. The bore of that rifle was also .398" land to land, same patch, same rod.
What is “muzzle treatment”?
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Smooth the machined crown. Thumb pressing into the crown with emery or wet/dry paper, rotating the wrist. Turn the barrel every now and then so your re-crown is even. There are lots of pictures here of muzzle crowns done this way. A lathe is not necessary. I do not currently have access to my pictures. You could search here for muzzle crowns.
The smoothly radiused crown allows a snug patch and ball to form into the muzzle without any cutting of the patch no matter how tight the combination is.
Tight combinations allow thicker patches which hold more lube & improve accuracy and clean shooting.
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Thanks Daryl and all else for your help.
Here's the "best" existing pic of the muzzle. Now, that's not a factory machine cut as I took the original 42" barrel and cut it down to 30". I then squared it, and using the "thumb" method, radius the end.
I don't get any patch cutting during loading....nor any cutting after shooting.
(https://i.imgur.com/WM4SViml.jpg)
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Doing a lot of searching and reading on lube types. Has anyone ever tried Mineral Oil for patch lube with any success?
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Had time (finally) to get back at it today. I collected 11 patches for examination. One of the 11 was cut (2nd pic). I'm thinking it got cut during loading, or possibly just a weak spot in the patch.
(https://i.imgur.com/qSmEjbEl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/2a8HmPhl.jpg)
So, this was the results using Mineral Oil soaked patches, and all at 50yds.
This one is a 4 shot group. 55gr 3F. But after 2 shots I noticed my front rest was not locked. So it had some minor wiggle in it.
(https://i.imgur.com/PIaQghll.jpg)
So, I tightened it up, and thought I shot 3 more.....but only 2 shot group. (Sometimes my brain just freezes) Bu this time the group was better.....but then, only a two shot group.
(https://i.imgur.com/bmpFeYUl.jpg)
Then I went to 60gr 3F and the groups opened up to the 2.5" spread
(https://i.imgur.com/CzJPiskl.jpg)
Then I thought I'd try the half-way point from 55 to 60gr and went to 58gr 3F. That group did not tighten up.
(https://i.imgur.com/VEfTbW8l.jpg)
So, the rifle appears to like 55gr the most. The big plus of the Mineral Oil was I didn't have to swab the barrel once and had no issues with loading another PRB. The last went down as easy as the first. I'll get back out again and perhaps give a different lube a try. Next time I also want to run the load over my chronograph to determine the velocity. I haven't adjusted the sights yet as I'm not settled on the load at this point.
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Are you looking for a target shooting load, or strictly a hunting load?
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I’m a hunter. I want the rifle to shoot the smallest groups it can with a velocity fast enough to punch into a whitetail at 100 yards.
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Your muzzle picture looks great. Have you tried Neetsfoot Oil or Track's Mink Oil?
I would like to see 65gr. to 75gr. 3F or 75gr. to 85gr. 2F being used for a 100yard .45 deer rifle. I personally like more powder and am not a minimalist in any way. If 3F is not giving you the accuracy you want (as it appears) I would most certainly try 2F. At the same vel. produced, it will develops lower pressure. Usually takes up to 10gr. MORE 2F powder to achieve the same accuracy and poi. when seeking a good load. In this case, 2F might be your salvation. When shooting from the bench with a flinter, I try to watch the ball go into the target through the sights.
I find a load I am happy with, and use that at all ranges.
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I’ve tried Tracks Mink oil. The Mineral oil works as god and maybe better. Never thought of going with higher charges of 2F….so I’ll give that a try next time
Thanks for your help.
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First...thanks for the "2F tip". I finally got back to the range and started with a charge of 50gr 2F, then went to 55gr 2F, and a final charge of 60gr 2F.
The 50gr gave me the just under 2" I had been getting with the best 3F powder charge. The 60gr 2F charge opened the group to very large (4"+) groups. The 55gr of 2F, .440rb, .15 patch, and (yes) the not usually seen mineral oil lube gave me the group as shown in the pic below. I did like the MO as swabbing was a once in a while thing.
As the morning turned into higher temps...... I didn't file the front sight down a bit more. Next outing I will work on the sites to get POA and POI to equal. That, and bringing my chronograph for ball speed will be the next outing. And for the next trip I'll see how it groups at 100 yards. I am interested in seeing what velocity I get from the 30" barrel.
And as a side note, the 12" of barrel I cut from this one I made a flint pistol. The interesting part of that project is the best 25yd groups I get is using 60gr of 3F.
(https://i.imgur.com/K2148Kfl.jpg)
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Even though you may not be cutting, nor burning patches, that is just a START on developing an accurate load.
Now, you need to try, in my humble opinion:
1: thicker patching in the .021"(10oz.denim) range minimum with .440 ball.
2: heavier powder charges
3: .445 balls with .020" to. 022 patching with 65gr. 3F and 75gr. to 85gr. 2F if looking for a 100yd. deer load.
That your accuracy suffers with heavier loads, shows quite dramatically that your choice of:
ball size, patching or lube is inferior.
In my opinion, the balls are too small & the patching is too thin. Strong opinion on these two items.
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Even though you may not be cutting, nor burning patches, that is just a START on developing an accurate load.
Now, you need to try, in my humble opinion:
1: thicker patching in the .021"(10oz.denim) range minimum with .440 ball.
2: heavier powder charges
3: .445 balls with .020" to. 022 patching with 65gr. 3F and 75gr. to 85gr. 2F if looking for a 100yd. deer load.
That your accuracy suffers with heavier loads, shows quite dramatically that your choice of:
ball size, patching or lube is inferior.
In my opinion, the balls are too small & the patching is too thin. Strong opinion on these two items.
Thanks Daryl. I've heeded your advice before and the groups got better. I'll pick up some .445's and thicker patches and give that a go.
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Sounds good.