AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: vtcivilwar on June 10, 2025, 05:53:58 PM
-
As you can see by my handle, I collect Civil War era. I have this in my collection and never really investigated it until yesterday. This was an attic find many years ago. My search lead me to this page. While it is not American, my understanding is some may have been used in the Revolutionary War? I was surprised by a quick search of the maker, Johann Jakob BEHR. 1690-1740. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated. The brass was lightly cleaned but overall it is as found. Big question is, is it worthy enough to get into the hands of someone who can preserve it or is it always going to be a wall hanger? I also have some guns from the Walter M Cline collection. Thanks for any info..
(https://i.ibb.co/Df2d1Pg6/100-1341.jpg) (https://ibb.co/chnqyKXp)
(https://i.ibb.co/5X8Fnwvw/100-1342.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FkwV0CJC)
(https://i.ibb.co/nMYD51R1/100-1343.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b5Cr8v7v)
(https://i.ibb.co/JjRp718K/100-1344.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fdYNpgZ2)
(https://i.ibb.co/8DW2gz4m/100-1345.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KjM7xNz5)
(https://i.ibb.co/svcTpFqs/100-1346.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RptXGCcQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/xKsdqB2r/100-1347.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RGSdTsgJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/Csn79z7f/100-1349.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JFz7pK79)
(https://i.ibb.co/v6BTYyh3/100-1350.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mVB28Z09)
(https://i.ibb.co/j0fR17X/100-1351.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hQ9ftpz)
(https://i.ibb.co/G3PFpBFL/100-1352.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KzymhRmk)
-
Yes it looks like a French gun? that is 18th century...started out as flintlock and later converted to percussion. I also think it was probably a full stock gun that was made into a half stock. I have a dutch 1770's musket that also was converted to percussion. And I am going to leave it alone
-
Interesting Euro stocked gun! It looks like it is octagon to round, is the bore rifled?
At least one example of Behr's work was here during the Revolution, an American restocked rifle by him was de-accessioned and sold at auction a while back (NB the Monmouth related provenance and American restocking put that auction price in the extreme nosebleed section, I wouldn't expect the same off of this interesting and likely Dutch stocked gun).
https://www.antiquesandthearts.com/rare-american-revolutionary-era-tiger-maple-rifle-loads-up-to-306000-at-cottones/ (https://www.antiquesandthearts.com/rare-american-revolutionary-era-tiger-maple-rifle-loads-up-to-306000-at-cottones/)
Hoff indicates he worked in Liege as well as Maasctricht.
(https://i.ibb.co/8g57gcMt/behr-in-hoffdet.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4RTVRdW3)
Can you post measurements and more info on provenance?
-
Hi,
Thanks for sharing the photos. It is certainly a gun worth saving. I suspect it was turned into half stock when converted to percussion. There is probably no way to connect the gun to the Rev War unless it has rock solid provenance indicating that. Nothing about the gun itself suggests that. What is up with the lock? Is the stock broken under the lock or does the lock fit that poorly in the mortise? The rifle shown in Backslash's post is the mysterious "Rochester rifle" described in Bob Lienemann's book "Moravian Gunmaking II" on pages 97-100. It has similarities to other guns from Christian's Spring and could be the work of Albrecht.
dave
-
While potentially shortened to a half-stock, Behr and other Continental European gunmakers also made quite a few half-stock smoothbore and straight rifled sporting guns in the 18th century such as this one which has a neat Spanish style stock:
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/81/308/johann-jakob-behr-flintlock-sporting-gun
(https://cdn.rockislandauction.com/dev_cdn/81/308.jpg)
-
More info on Behr (including another half stock with cheek piece) here: https://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20b/a%20behr%20jean%20jacques%20gb.htm (https://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20b/a%20behr%20jean%20jacques%20gb.htm)
-
Very nice, fancy, and it will always be a wall hanger. Not much to be gained by restoring these guns to functionality, and always a chance of loss.
-
Thanks for all the great info. The pictures of the other rifles are just gorgeous. This, unfortunately was neglected for many years. I believe the wood shrunk around the lock plate, if possible, creating the gap.
Thanks again
-
Wood gap is probably not shrinkage. In first picture of lock, it looks like the main spring has dropped too low, pushing the wood below it downward. The current nipple may be beat down too much, which lets the hammer sit too low at rest, and the main spring drop down and push on the wood. You have a fascinating gun that I enjoyed seeing; thanks for posting.
Shelby Gallien