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General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Dennis Daigger on July 02, 2025, 05:32:38 AM

Title: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Dennis Daigger on July 02, 2025, 05:32:38 AM
I pretty much owe the win to low participation in the June match, but nice nonetheless.

One of our Canadian friends on the forum told me recently about an extraordinary target his brother shot (I won’t mention names) some time ago and I am plagiarizing that theme for this month’s match.

Here is the target:
(https://i.ibb.co/cXwSqJkw/bullseye-target-20.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2YS1JqWS)

Here’s the link for printing.
https://www.targets.ws/shooting-targets/bullseye-target-20.pdf

Fold the target so only the lower half of the rings are visible, five shots on this half target, offhand at 25 yds or off the bench at 50 yds. Half ball rule for scoring. Ring values as shown on the target.
Dennis
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Jakob on July 02, 2025, 05:41:44 AM
That's just plain evil and I love it.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: foresterdj on July 02, 2025, 03:58:44 PM
So we still aim at the red center, but only low shots will hit scorable area. I guess dropping powder charge at tad might help?
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: smylee grouch on July 02, 2025, 04:31:09 PM
Will you score the outside 5 or all 10 holes?  :-\
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Dennis Daigger on July 02, 2025, 08:33:23 PM
5-hole score only for shots within the visible semicircle of rings.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: JBJ on July 04, 2025, 12:54:45 AM
If I understand correctly, since we are shooting at one-half target, the target could be cut in half along the row of numbers thereby yielding two targets. Clearly we have to count on the honesty of the shooter to only fire five shots per target because a shot off the half target simply will not show. I'm old and quite likely misunderstanding the instructions, so please help me out.  ;D
It looks like the knee might be healed enough for me to limp to the range and take a  whack at the July target. Fingers crossed.
Hey Marc.

J.B.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Dennis Daigger on July 04, 2025, 04:23:18 AM
Dang, J.B. This seemed like a good idea.

Ok, when you tack the target to your target stand put a clean full sheet of paper behind the target. That way all five shots will register and when you post your targets keep the clean sheet attached.

New knee, good news, yes?
Dennis
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: alacran on July 06, 2025, 05:35:07 PM
One of our Canadian friends on the forum a few years back stated that we are not competing as far as visual acuity but shooting ability.
I just printed a few targets. No, I'm not looking forward to shooting them.
I think the only thing that will be clearly visible will be the half dot.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: okawbow on July 07, 2025, 12:08:51 AM
I have a rifle that shoots a little low at 25. Might be just right for this match.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Daryl on July 07, 2025, 05:54:38 AM
Got 1/2 an orange or grey dot to shoot at. What's the problem, LOL.
Was no trouble for Taylor, way back when. IIRC, he used his .62 Hawken, match rifle with at least 120gr. 2F.
 ;D
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: JBJ on July 07, 2025, 02:33:25 PM
In my mind (what there is left of it ;D) visual acuity  and shooting ability are inextricably  intwined. I wish that I could see the sights as crisply as I did once upon a time. Peep sights, scopes and what have you are all there to helps us see sights and target with greater clarity.
Added to this are physical limitations and technique. Shooting ability is an amalgamation of factors.
July's target is tough!

J.B.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: longcruise on July 08, 2025, 12:10:46 AM
Just one clarification please.  Is it that we position the target such that we are shooting at the bottom half?  Or, does it matter if we shoot it as though the top or bottom?
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Dennis Daigger on July 08, 2025, 01:13:16 AM
Sorry folks. Can we switch to this target?

https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2012/04/24/16/43/targets-40383_1280.png
(https://i.ibb.co/qYT0d7JS/targets-40383-1280.png) (https://ibb.co/tpVZ4QLG)

Dennis
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: okawbow on July 08, 2025, 02:37:21 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/BVzsGRY3/B365841-E-6209-410-F-BF34-66316-C62468-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qMy1Cw2j)
My printer does this. I’m ok with it if everyone else is.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: alacran on July 08, 2025, 04:08:45 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/8n36ywM1/PXL-20250708-125628213-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZRsWQrdq)
I shot these two targets on Sunday but was too busy yesterday to post them. I shot them at our local range since we are in stage 2 fire restrictions, and that is the only place I can shoot.
Yes, it was windy, and the AR crowd made for an unpleasurable experience. However, the target itself wore me out. The top target was the second target I shot I aimed right at the half dot. I clipped the top of the 10 ring twice and the other shots speak for themselves. The first target I shot was the bottom target. I aimed low on the half dot and then aimed at were the first shot hit.
After that I had enough.
I had to correct the posting after I realized that I posted the same target twice.
Dennis, I am glad you decided to switch targets. I shot these two because I wanted to be a good sport, but I was not planning to shoot them again.
I will shoot the new and improved target.
(https://i.ibb.co/S7KRGKBj/PXL-20250708-125615843-MP-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LhCnHC1F)
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Daryl on July 08, 2025, 05:08:50 PM
This is what my printer does from the address given.
Easy to fold in 1/2. I like the idea of photographing the backer and target together.

(https://i.ibb.co/m5YbrT3d/IMG-3558.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1Gp7YQkB)
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Daryl on July 08, 2025, 05:13:54 PM
Re-peinted, with "fit to page" clicked. Becomes much smaller.

(https://i.ibb.co/FL4vdNMS/IMG-3559.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YFB9VYMz)
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: foresterdj on July 08, 2025, 06:06:20 PM
I have not tried printing the new target yet, but even if part runs off the page, just use the half that is on the page. Iwould not shrink to fit. And this target, while using more ink, does give more to aim at. Will try it later this month.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Daryl on July 08, 2025, 08:28:42 PM
I think perhaps my margin settings made the target so small.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: JBJ on July 09, 2025, 02:32:01 PM
When I printed the target, the black area measured 4 7/16 inches. Now to figure out what my settings are.

J.B.

Side margins are set as default 0.13 inches. Top and bottom set as default 0.33 inches.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Daryl on July 09, 2025, 05:04:40 PM
I get 4 15/16" and 7 1/4" for my two targets.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: JBJ on July 09, 2025, 09:47:53 PM
Oops! Don't we need something that is giving a consistent target  size? I like your 4 15/16 compared to my smaller 4 7/16.  ;D
J.B.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: foresterdj on July 09, 2025, 10:10:07 PM
I would bet that it is this way every month,due to different printers and settings.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: JBJ on July 09, 2025, 11:45:02 PM
foresterdj,
I would be afraid to bet against what you suggested, but I have a feeling that this particular target/source is a problem. It is a png file which I "think" gives a better image quality than jpg. So many of the previous choices have come from sources like www.targetz.com which are jpg files and some other sources that are pdf files. I don't know what effect this might have but I'm sure one of our members can provide a better understanding of what is happening and how we might be able to better insure that all of us are on the same "page". The 1/2 inch  difference between my image and Daryl's is not trivial to my antique eyeballs.

J.B. 
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: alacran on July 10, 2025, 02:21:10 AM
I printed a couple of targets this morning. My target's black is 5.125 inches.
I think Dennis needs to weigh in on this subject. Also are we going to shoot half of this target? I don't think he made that clear since he changed targets.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: okawbow on July 10, 2025, 02:54:28 PM
I will shoot the first target as Dennis originally posted. I don’t see anything wrong with it.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: foresterdj on July 10, 2025, 07:23:39 PM
Do do do doot do do do doot do do,

The dueling banjos of July targets.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: okawbow on July 11, 2025, 08:50:35 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/60yxzfL6/81-AE98-D3-F2-FB-4811-8-E6-D-742-A9-E4-C45-BA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r2QSY1Nn)

My third target. Missed the first two on #1 and #2. Finally figured out where to aim. Tough getting any kind of good score. I believe mine scored 38.

Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Daryl on July 12, 2025, 02:43:19 AM
Looks really good to me. Wish I could do that with a flinter.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: alacran on July 12, 2025, 04:00:37 PM
Good shooting Okabow. I had to modify my first posting. I had posted the same picture twice. Thats what I get for using my phone to post photos.
I will have to see if anyone posts any more targets, before I decide what everyone is shooting.
If I shoot this one again it will have to be on a calm day.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: foresterdj on July 26, 2025, 10:16:53 PM
OK, I got out to shoot today. What I did is I took the first target style and stapled it behind the second big bull version with the bulls centered over each other. Then covered the top half with a different target. This way I could take to shots going through both target styles to compare how they score with the identical holes. All shots with Evelyn the .54 jaeger with Moody barrel, 80 gr. 2F and Minies. I will say that the Minies I have, show visibly different skirt thickness (so different weights) and are variable in diameter (based on some almost dropping in and some needing a good push). I mention this to establish an alibi for my poor grouping.

I will try in a next reply to add pictures, which has been going slow, I think due to a problem on my end, (internet provider coming next week to install new hardware).
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: foresterdj on July 26, 2025, 11:14:07 PM
Two sets of overlapped targets ready to shoot.

(https://i.ibb.co/GftKHZCs/July-half-targets-cropped.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HLxWhcGN)

Target 1, now separated and laid side by side for scoring.


(https://i.ibb.co/tp1g072K/target-1-SXS.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0yzT0g92)

and target 2 separated SXS for scoring.



(https://i.ibb.co/MkYVkhSX/target-2-SXS.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d4d24cMh)

FYI, I shrink these pictures to a tiny fraction of their original size, so quality must be less, and they still took about a half hour to upload. As I said, it might be my computer and internet provider issue.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: whetrock on July 27, 2025, 12:09:52 AM
I'm not meaning to imply that anyone participating in this match would cheat. Seriously, I'm not.
But I was just thinking that with this 1/2 target, it would be good to print a whole target and then fold it. The bullet holes would then show mirror image when it was unfolded. That would verify that the target was indeed 1/2 sheet when the guy shot at it, and it would also verify that it was shot as a 1/2 target (rather than just being shot as a full target and then cut in half).

Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: foresterdj on July 27, 2025, 12:51:15 AM
I guess. But even if shot at as a full target, if the only scoring shots are from below the horizon how would that matter?
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: whetrock on July 27, 2025, 12:59:12 AM
I guess. But even if shot at as a full target, if the only scoring shots are from below the horizon how would that matter?

I guess it's supposed to be just 5 shots. And only supposed to be 1/2 the bull showing when you shoot. As Dennis originally posted it, anyway.
If a guy wanted to cheat with the "cut the target" setup, seems he could shoot as many shots as he wanted at a full sheet with a full bull (since it's easier to see), then when he had 5 in the lower half, he would stop and cut the target.
If, on the other hand, he had to fold the target paper, then the paper itself would verify that he only shot 5 times (or it would verify that he only hit the paper 5 times, anyway).

Anyway, just a suggestion.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: okawbow on July 27, 2025, 01:33:36 AM
We have to assume that everyone goes by the rules. I mean; you could shoot from a bench or from 15 yards, but what fun would that be?
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: whetrock on July 27, 2025, 02:23:28 AM
We have to assume that everyone goes by the rules. I mean; you could shoot from a bench or from 15 yards, but what fun would that be?

Certainly. I agree.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: foresterdj on July 27, 2025, 04:38:16 AM
Oops, I see my number 2 targets I accidentally counted the shot above the horizon, so score minus 7 and minus 6 from what I wrote on them.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: foresterdj on July 27, 2025, 04:40:02 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/fd12Wfn4/target-2-and-2-A-overlapped.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1GvLN1d8)
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: alacran on July 27, 2025, 03:56:40 PM
Most ML Clubs shoot by NMLRA rules. Most matches have a 30-minute time limit. A five-shot match calls for five shots on the paper. You can post a sighting target next to your scoring target. The exception is on the Haffner animal targets. You can shoot all the shots you want, as long as you only get five in the scoring target, and you do it within the time limit.
Obviously, our matches are on the honor system and there is no way to enforce any rule.
If someone cheats, they are only cheating themselves.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: alacran on July 28, 2025, 02:24:54 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/cc8S1BXK/PXL-20250727-231253447-PORTRAIT-ORIGINAL-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4ZSn7qgw)

I shot only one of these targets today at 25 yards offhand.. I used my .61 Jaeger with a 25-inch Rayl barrel. I used .595 balls and .022 canvass patching over 85 grains of 2f Goex.
This is not the only target I shot today. I really wanted to practice shooting at 50 yards offhand. But I wanted to shoot this target first.

I score this target a 29. I shot the other target on July 7. I scored a 22 on the better of the targets I shot.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Dennis Daigger on July 28, 2025, 10:28:41 PM
Sorry for my dereliction in monitoring this thread. Yes, half target on which ever you shoot.

I thought maybe the really low participation was due to difficulty of the targets so shot them this morning. My difficulty was mentally forcing myself to use the sight picture that would be used if the whole target was visible. As you can see I definitely used a sight picture that put the shots low.

We had a bright sunny day so the red dot (half dot actually) on the first target was quite visible and using the adage aim small miss small gave me a fairly nice group compared to the black target. Poor scores to say the least. Shot offhand at 25 yds.

(https://i.ibb.co/PvgksV4Q/IMG-9494.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zpx9RbKm)

(https://i.ibb.co/JFs2Hm8f/IMG-9495.jpg) (https://ibb.co/84729NGW)
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Dennis Daigger on July 29, 2025, 12:10:50 AM
Here’s a quick summary of where I think we are score wise in the order of posting:

Red dot target;
alacran 26, 22
okawbow 40
foresterdj 14, 16


Black bull target;
foresterdj 23, 20 20
alacran 29

Please post corrections, protests, etc???
Dennis
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: alacran on July 29, 2025, 03:43:54 PM
Not that it matters but my score on the black target scores 29.
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: foresterdj on July 30, 2025, 02:01:58 AM
I got my red dot both at 16. But these should not actually be counted since they were shot while stapled behind the black bull target, just to see how the two targets scored from the same through and through holes. I was not aiming at the red dot itself.

I have my black targets at 15 and 20.  Mine shot from rest of sandbags at 50 yards, not offhand 25 yard. (The two allowed options.)
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: Dennis Daigger on August 01, 2025, 07:53:12 PM
Hat in hand my apology for conduct of this month’s shoot with the changing target. Okawbow and alacran each had high scores for the target that each shot but okawbow’s target appears to have a smaller spread and so he is the winner. Alacran can specify any necessary act of atonement for me to cure any wrong inflicted by this decision.  8)
Dennis
Title: Re: July ALR monthly match
Post by: alacran on August 01, 2025, 10:22:44 PM
Nothing to atone for Dennis. Okabow had the better target.