AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Wingshot on August 01, 2025, 01:01:27 AM
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After reading the vent pick thread a topic popped into my head, I’ll preface by saying that I’ve been shooting frontstuffers for 50+ years and have my own “system” for loading and firing a flintlock. That said, I respect the fact that others also have their own sequence of actions to make theirs go bang. In my years I’ve not done a lot of shooting in groups of people but in the past few years I’ve attended and shot at quite a few woodswalk shoots and enjoy it immensely. What I see as observe others loading between targets is that many ram the ball home and then proceed to “thump” or slam the ramrod over the ball several times and then return the rod to its rightful place. My question is simply why? For as long as I’ve been shooting I’ve always marked my rod once I worked a good load and use that as my go-no go gauge. I know that fouling can build a ring in the breech and when I start seeing that mark creeping up I’ll quickly swab out the bore and start back with the ring knocked down. Is this thumping thing a trend like when folks would blow down the barrel after every shot? (Another habit I’ve never understood). I’ve never felt comfortable asking the people I see doing this probably because I’m usually the new guy at the shoot.
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I agree, there is absolutely no reason to thump the ramrod. It was a popular thing to do in the 70's and 80's. I still see a few people doing it, and each to their own but I just don't see any real reason if your ramrod is marked.
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I do it 3 times for a round ball load. For long range or with a double rifle and conical I never do it.
Fleener
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It's to make sure the load is properly seated, least that's how I was told, when the ramrod starts bouncing you know it's all the way down.
And I do blow smoke from the barrel, just for kicks. ;D I would think less residue building up in the barrel if you clear out the smoke ;)
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I don't thump with the ram rod, I do as others have said using a marked ram rod to verify that the load is seated. I do however, blow down the barrel after the shot. It keeps the fouling soft with the moisture from your breath, and it also verifies that the touch hole is clear.
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The first time I was shown how to load a flintlock, (60 years ago), the old timer was adamant that I blow down the barrel to put out any sparks, and after the ball was pushed down, to throw the rod against the ball until it bounces. He also showed me how to mark the rod to be sure the ball was seated, or to determine if it was over loaded or dry balled.
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I confess to being a thumper. Been doing it for more than 50 years and do it to ensure the ball is fully seated. I use spit patch and get no ring of fowling buildup - no matter how many shots are fired. My ramrod is marked, but the mark is only there to confirm the gun is loaded, as opposedto confirming the ball is firmly seated. A range rod is used at the bench and that is not marked due to being used for multiple guns, but I still thump. Consistency is important in this game.
On our range and sister ranges, you would be severely chastized if you were to blow down the barrel. If you feel you must do that, use a blow tube ;)
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It would be interesting to chronograph about 10 shots of the thumping vs. just placing the ball on the powder in about 2 motions to see what the standard deviations and extreme spreads would be. Plus, shoot two targets between two shooters to see if thumping is more accurate. I see the thumpers all the time at the local matches. I always figured they were conforming their ball into a slug to make it fit tighter in the bore. If the Bevel Brothers are watching this thread maybe they'll do the test.
Bob
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Most or many militaries of the world loaded their muskets "by the numbers"
After shoving the paper ctg. Down the bore, they lifted the rod and "threw" it onto the paper ctg. 3 times. This was to ensure the ball was fully seated onto the powder in a fouled bore.
This practise continued to be used without change after the Euro. countries switched to using balls and conical balls with Tige and Delvinge chambers where the ball or conical ball was upset to "take" the rifling.
THAT is where throwing the rod onto the ball originated.
Some people today do this for the same reason or because they saw someone else doing it & thought it was a good idea, or because their ball and patch combos let fouling build and it's hard to seat the ball after a few shots.
After I press the ball onto the powder, I give the starter fitted onto the rod a smack with my palm to slightly compress the powder charge. I feel this is similar to giving ctg. loaded with BP, the 1/10" compression that helps their consistancy in ballistics and this accuracy.
My chronograph testing with doing this decreases the shot to shot vel. variations as well as in increasing the velocity in both the .40 and .45 by almost 100fps.
My shot to shot vel. does not vary more than 10fps over a 10 shot group, no wiping at any time. My
69's variation is usually under 7fps.
Consistancy in loading is important.
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I was taught (or saw it on the range or in books perhaps) to gently throw the ramrod down after seating in the 1970s. I only withdrew it 4-5 inches, and let it's weight mostly do the work. If it bounced the first time, I was done. If it took 2-3 times to bounce, I did that.
Flash forward many years and I read in these forums people saying it wasn't needed, should not be done...etc. So I stopped for a while. Know what? I just liked the look and feel of a ramrod bounce...so I returned to what I always did in those formative decades.
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The first time I was shown how to load a flintlock, (60 years ago), the old timer was adamant that I blow down the barrel to put out any sparks, and after the ball was pushed down, to throw the rod against the ball until it bounces. He also showed me how to mark the rod to be sure the ball was seated, or to determine if it was over loaded or dry balled.
Blowing down the barrel can be deadly.....The owner of perhaps the oldest Muzzleloading shop in Maryland told me the story (several times) of an event that happened years ago in Pennsylvania. More or less in a group setting of shooters, one fellow who followed the blowing down the barrel practice most have forget his loading pattern and while chit chatting, placed his mouth over the muzzle....The charge took off the top of his head and his Spirit was in Heaven before the smoke cleared......Be careful out there
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I bounce my wooden ramrod off because I want the powder compressed for when I pick it. Range rod has enough mass to seat it without bouncing. I don't swab between shots and as it fouls it can get tough to seat so that's why I bounce it. Works well for me, I took notice over the years I'm not the guy screwing around trying to figure out why my gun won't go off while we all wait so I keep doing what I'm doing.
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It seems as though there are more than one way to blow down the barrel. The direct inline crowd, the deflector or angle crowd and the scary mouth sealed over the muzzle bunch!
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I’ve heard several versions of that story and no one seems to have any first hand knowledge or proof that it ever happened. I have, however personally seen a rifle go off while being loaded and burned the man loading it.
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It's like a lot of other things, people get in their head they can't shoot unless everything is "perfect"
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I’ve heard several versions of that story and no one seems to have any first hand knowledge or proof that it ever happened. I have, however personally seen a rifle go off while being loaded and burned the man loading it.
Except the man that was standing there
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Some years ago now an NMLRA board member at that time , told me someone was burned in the mouth at one of the Championship shoots in Friendship but another member who had been a rang officer there had never heard of it and it was a story. Anyone else know of this " happening "?
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I will not, nor need not prove what actually happened to that poor Soul from Pennsylvania as my friends word is all that I need......With that said....Every property I have owned has been open to those friends and family who wish to shoot, whether it be trap, skeet, modern guns, smokepoles or bows, and with that said.... the first time I saw someone place the muzzle of a firearm in their mouth on my property would be the last time they would be welcome to shoot regardless of their experience, opinion, practice or relationship to me.
I will never forget watching a man in an indoor archery range adjusting his buddys thumb screw pin sight while the buddy was at full draw on a compound bow. As I began to comment from the next lane, the buddy hit the release trigger by accident and the arrow shaft went through his friends hand leaving it mangled and broken. Placing ones self in harms way will in time manifest itself with real bad results.
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To clarify my previous post. I do not put my mouth over the muzzle to blow down the bore. I use my hand to deflect my breath down the bore. I do this right after the gun goes off, so there is little possibility of a discharge.
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I am not a fan of giving a firearm a blowjob.
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I am not a fan of giving a firearm a blowjob.
Nor I. Interesting rituals being revealed here. I’ve got one of my own that addresses powder compression. I usually use the ball starter to tap down one of the barrel flats before I start a ball in. My logic is that it helps settle and compact the charge. I will also bump the butt plate on the ground if I’m on soft ground, not concrete or gravel of course. Just to be clear, I’m not judging, just saying.
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The tapping of the ramrod as I said earlier does absolutely nothing to enhance your shooting and is an archaic way of loading, but again each to their own and if you like doing it or eases your mind by all means do it. As to blowing down the barrel it is a normal way of loading in all B.P.C.R. matches only they use a blow tube. Blowing down the barrel does prove the vent hole is open and the moisture does soften the burnt powder residue in the barrel. I do blow down the barrel immediately after shooting unless it is forbidden at the shoot I am at, then I still do it or use a blow tube I carry in my shooting box. If done immediately after firing and before the loading even starts is safe. Again this is how one old man does it and if you don't like it or don't approve then by all means keep doing it the way you like.
Mike
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I bounce the rod, finding on occasion it doesn't bounce much. That indicates the ball was not quite fully seated. Withdrawing the rod a set distance and bouncing it a few times ensures it is seated and the powder consistently packed.
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I am not a fan of giving a firearm a blowjob.
What I do at the privacy of my range is my business. That's my story and I'm sticking to it...
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I am not a fan of giving a firearm a blowjob.
What I do at the privacy of my range is my business. That's my story and I'm sticking to it...
You just got a big huge laugh out of me!!!
Bravo 🙌
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I did witness a blowing down the barrel of a loaded gun at the range. The guy had a misfire and blew down the barrel. It did not detonate fortunately. I and everyone else there hurried to their trucks and vamoosed.
I don't thump. I give the ramrod two little pushes on the ball. I think a lot of thumpers are monkey see, monkey do.
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I put the heel of my palm over the end of the rod while it's in the barrel and ball seated on powder and give it a few really heavy pushes. That gets it done. After the first fouling shot, the speed spread is no more than 10-15, so it works pretty well.
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I would counter the "non thumpers" with if you are using the weapons mounted rod it os often quite short and a bounce is a quick way to get the rod a little more clear of the barrel and it naturally flips easier to replace the rod. At least I find the motion to be quite natural and easy. Also those saying they use the heel of their hand or their palm to compress the charge..... ick. Gives me the heebie Jeebies placing my hand over a loaded muzzle. The bounce can be carried out with the finger tips and a pinch grip. Way rather blow down a discharged weapon than flat hand the muzzlenof a loaded one.
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I think as has been mentioned before not all shooters today were trained to carry a range rod. I certainly wasn’t, and I’m sure not all the people on this forum came up through the ranks packing one either. To me unless I am bench shooting a gun that requires a very tight load, a range rod is just one more piece of junk to keep track of. So, I would suppose that if you don’t like keeping track of a range rod, you also don’t want a ramrod sticking out beyond the muzzle of your gun a country mile either. So the easiest way to tell if your patch and ball are clear down on top of your powder charge is to thump it three times, and if it doesn’t bounce don’t shoot it.
Hungry Horse
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People who blow down a barrel after a misfire are just giving Darwin and even chance.
Travel out west, you will see blowing down the barrel is nearly universal. We don't have lawyers watching over us like those in the east do. I neglected to blow down the barrel last summer, and did have a charge flare off when I poured it in the barrel. No harm, just a short lived Roman candle. That was the first time in over 50 years of shooting muzzle loaders, and one of the few times I hadn't blown down the barrel before loading.
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My take on blowing down a barrel is that bullets rapidly exit the end of the barrel. Doesn't really make good sense to me to put your face where that happens. I believe in Murphy's laws. If it can happen, it will.
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Why would blowing down the barrel extinguish any burning residue? Long way down a barrel for the moisture to get to it, and we blow air to get things burning as well as to put out a candle.
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IF you use weak ball and patch combinations, fouling will build up, especially in the breech. Throwing the rod onto the seated ball will guarantee the ball is on the powder.
This "MILITARY" method of loading was taught and practised due to the loose paper ctgs. issued to the troops. After only a few shots, the buildup of fouling was quite severe from the 165gr. and later, the 135gr. Ctgs.
They were taught the "throw" the rod onto the seated ctg. 3 times.
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Both throwing the ramrod down a bit and blowing through an EMPTY barrel had reasons to do so.
On the blowing the reasons are to have your humid breath make the powder fouling softer, to see a puff of smoke coming out of the touchhole to be sure it was clear, and to burn out any spark left behind. A blast of air will do that. A low oxygen, just fired barrel doesn't have much air. Hence, lingering sparks. Cannon barrels were swabbed after firing to extinguish any lingering sparks or embers from the gunpowder, which could ignite the next powder charge and endanger the loading crew.
I can't imagine why anyone would try to blow down a LOADED barrel, that's an entirely different story. And extremely dumb to ever put any part of your body over the bore of a loaded gun of any type. Ever.
"How do you know it's not loaded?" Well, you just FIRED the gun, and saw the bullet strike. Pretty certainly it's not loaded after a big boom, and a bullet flying out. "Could someone mess up and mistakenly blow if it's their habit?" Yes, if people make mistakes an ANY way loading and shooting black powder, accidents happen. I prioritize the risky things. For example, I don't use the palm of my hand on the end of the ramrod to seat the bullet. IF a lingering ember sets off the charge at that point, you've got a ramrod and a ball shooting through your hand. I'd say there are 3 ways to prevent sparks - blow down the bore, wipe with a wet patch, or wait a few minutes between loading. I'm not advocating anyone blow down the barrel mind you....and not saying if I do.
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With the ball and patch combinations Taylor and I (among others here) have been recommending for many years, there is nothing left in the barrel to hold a spark, thus there is no reason to be putting your mouth over the muzzle.
If you must do this to soften the fouling, your ball and patch combinations are too loose. With a good combination, there is zero fouling buildup, nor any chance od am "ember" left in the bore after firing.
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I'm sure I knew about a good, tight fitting patch and ball since the 70s! As did all the generations before me going back to the 1800s, from what I've read in Roberts, etc.
But I agree, it's pretty much a silly habit that's not needed.
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People who blow down a barrel after a misfire are just giving Darwin and even chance.
Travel out west, you will see blowing down the barrel is nearly universal. We don't have lawyers watching over us like those in the east do. I neglected to blow down the barrel last summer, and did have a charge flare off when I poured it in the barrel. No harm, just a short lived Roman candle. That was the first time in over 50 years of shooting muzzle loaders, and one of the few times I hadn't blown down the barrel before loading.
One doesn't need a lawyer to figure out that if you have a fire in your bore after shooting, that you have a common sense thing going on (lack of) that geography cannot fix ::) ::)
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I like to thump it because it's what I was taught, and seem to get great groups in my rifle, despite the the thumping.
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Blowing IN to a gun that just misfired is a grand rank brain @$#%.I have blown ACROSS the muzzle of one that I had just fired and that will create a vacuum to get rid of smoke or maybe a lingering spark.I wish I had kept the 58 caliber flint lock I put together but it's about 20 miles to the club range and dedicated time was almost zero.Competitive shooting was never a priority for me but I did really enjoy the BPCR shoots at Ralph Marcum's range in McKee,Ky.more than muzzle loaders and the steak dinners at Opal's restaurant were something to look forward to.Those shoots stopped when Ralph passed away.I am a member of a local shooting club that has a fine range and allows members to shoot anything we can legally own form a match lock to whatever.Every member has a key to the gate and expulsion occurs if the key is loaned to a non member.Getting back to muzzle loaders and black powder,is Curtis&Harvey still available? I noticed less fouling and higher performance in muzzle loaders and BPCR when I had some.
Bob Roller
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I do give the rod a thump after the ball seats. In single shot pistols I use my loading mallet to give two taps.
Why? Consistency. It is part of my ritual. If there is some fouling building up in the chamber it may prevent the powder from being compressed that same as a clean bore. I do use steel range rods with tips that fit the ball closely. I turn the tip in a lathe and cut the correct radius. I then refine it with sandpaper pushed by the actual ball size in question. Any deformation is minimal. Some obturation may be helpful to accuracy, IMHO.
Does it matter? No idea. I do know a set routine in important to shooting well. That also includes consistency in loading.
Blowing down the barrel? That is a hard no. It is a blatant safety violation and serves no purpose. I use moose milk shooting patches in a quality barrel. I polish barrels inside. With not significant tool marks there is no place for the fouling to stick. Between the wet lube, a quality barrel, and the thumps, no significant fouling builds up.
Last weekend I watched a fellow shooter swabbing between shots at a pistol shoot. His cleaning patches looked like they were coated with tar after one shot. He was using pre-lubed patches. My cleaning patches were only slightly grey after a dozen shots. We were both shooting the same caliber, charge, and Goex 3F. I have observed the wet swabbers have lots of trouble with misfires from the bore cleaner. That is a safety issue that affects all the shooter on the line. IMHO that is more dangerous than the remote possibility of the powder lighting while loading .
The problem being addressed with blowing down the bore is best addressed with other procedures. It is also likely exposing the shooter to extra lead for no good reason.
NMLRA Rules
1090–BLOWING DOWN THE BARREL
There will be NO blowing down the barrel during NMLRA
matches in any manner that requires the head to be in front of
the muzzle. A flexible blow tube may be used at the shooter’s
option, provided that the shooter’s head is not placed in front
of the muzzle.
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Once the ball is pushed down to where it stops, I place the hold in the starter's knob on the rod, then give that knob a smack with my palm. This puts the same pressure
on the ball against the power, shot to shot. There is ZERO fouling buildup, but I have found this "smack" compresses the powder the same amount, each time, just as down in BPCTG loading.
With the smack, I get shot to shot variations of under 10fps AND a velocity increase, depending on the calibre of up to 100fps. The added "consistency" in shot to shot vel. is why I do this. With
just pressing the ball onto the powder, my shot to shot variations run 40 to 60fps. "Consistency, though art a jewel".
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I actually started the ramrod thumping/throwing just out of curiosity to check if my balls was completely seated .... Well lots of times it is not!
My accuracy went up after I started doing it ;D
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Short starters all have a starting peg and a hole for the end of the rod to do the smack. Thumping the rod onto the ball is not necessary. One smack does it.
All my rods are cupped to fit the ball's shape.
Ha! the .69's starter is turned sideways. The knob is an ash baseball bat end.
(https://i.ibb.co/RkwcRLjp/Starters-and-2-F-Horn.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7dmKs7kJ)
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"Thumping" as used in this reference, is a psychological habit that reinforces a loading ritual that some may find mentally comfortable. In other words it helps some feel good. Nothing wrong with that and it causes no harm one way or t'other.
How "blowing down the barrel" was brought into this topic I don't know and why some may find it akin to a "BJ" I also don't know.
In my research as flintlock aficionado and student of history, I found that most historical references refer to the rifle gunne as a woman, or girl and name their personal weapon as such. Even such gender neutral labels as "Tick Licker", etc have a certain connotation as being of the female persuasion, at least in my view. Even the U.S Government in their official training regimen usually refers to your weapon, or piece as a woman informally. In fact, some branches of the Department of War, encourage the recruit to sleep with their weapon, or piece and I'm pretty sure even the Department of Defense never ordered their war fighters to sleep with a guy.
'Nuff said
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In the unlikely event of the charge going off while seating the ball; thumping the rod prevents the “rod through the hand” syndrome, as well as insurance that the load is seated. I thump whenever I use the wooden ramrod. My accuracy does not suffer at all.