AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: 4STER01 on August 27, 2025, 11:47:19 PM
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I recently acquired, estate sale, an early 1800's era PA Flintlock, 55 1/2" total length, Barrel length to tang 40 1/4", Octagon 0.45 caliber. The Lock is marked M.M.Maslin Warranted. The 1977 appraisal letter inferred it might be attributed to A.Kiser per letter "Hardware on this Firearm and general lines - Identical to rifle attributed to A. Kiser - location unknown". Question for expert on Kiser
Brass - Patch box, trigger guard, Butt plate, toe plate, grip oval, Half Moon inlay on Cheek piece, thimbles and fore tip.
German Silver - Inlay above toe plate
Stock - Maple
My inspection consistent with letter shows lock mortise was nicely refitted for the M.M.Maslin. The original lock footprint was different. This leaves me questioning if earlier 1800 era for original stock and barrel with lock replaced at later 1800 date. Another note, looking in the barrel does not seem to be rifled. Question - fowler? I have bio info on Maslin and Kiser. Thanks in advance and can provide other pics.
(https://i.ibb.co/zVnDFD7h/IMG-0006.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Xx2MDM3Z)
(https://i.ibb.co/fGQzhRTt/IMG-0009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FqnLSvdJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/Dg1MhSpc/IMG-0012.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k6GDjW1b)
(https://i.ibb.co/9939kZ7P/IMG-0014.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XZkZrYqH)
(https://i.ibb.co/4wzyTS3W/IMG-0007.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ng5hjNbx)
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Patchbox finial has a "faint" resemblance to Kiser's work, but his guns had stronger triangular butts. This is not a Kiser rifle. The rifle has had quite a bit of work done to it, including the replaced lock. Any chance we can see a picture of the inside of the patchbox cavity to verify the current patchbox's age?
Shelby Gallien
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Patchbox reminds me of John Snyder Lehigh county Pa .Pictures of the top of the buttplate and of the lockbolt plate (opposite side of the lock ) would help. Jim
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Let's see the INSIDE of that lock.I made a bunch of them about 50 years ago.
Bob Roller
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Here are several pics requested. Not sure what pic wanted on lock the mortise or backside of the Lock? thanks all
(https://i.ibb.co/GvWTzMLt/IMG-0008.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QFPdyHRC)
(https://i.ibb.co/j9vYZxsX/IMG-0027.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hxRN1nwz)
(https://i.ibb.co/HpfxXb4b/IMG-0028.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sJd6tNRN)
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A picture of the internal works of the lock, is what Bob Roller would like.
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As requested. The backside of the Lock
(https://i.ibb.co/8nd05Z52/IMG-0032.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6c1mPCPb)
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It looks like you have an original Lehigh County rifle, but when a gun has been restored and refinished - which can hide new work - it becomes harder to tell what is old and what is new from photos. Your box cavity is very clean, but it could be OK. But look at the bright mid-section of hinge from underneath, which shows a new surface, and to my eye the "tarnished" brass in that view still shows too much brightness through the grunge, and the green highlights are a bit too blotchy. Your brass butt plate has a nice amount of normal wear with numerous tiny bumps and dings with more mellow color, but the patchbox surface is very smooth and bright. The patchbox may be a total replacement, perhaps matching an old mortise, perhaps new to the gun.
As you can probably see, that is the problem with trying to assess restored and refinished longrifles from photos, since you can't always tell what you are looking at.
Shelby Gallien
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Thanks for that confirmation info. Is it accurate to circa 1780-1810? Is it inferred to John Snyder aka Schneider based on finial shape? The Maslin lock is a different later circa? Any further thoughts on it as was requested to look at back side? I will now do research on this Lehigh rifle origins. Any specific sites that are recommended? I understand 0.38 caliber might have been favorite for makers but it is something less that a 0.45. It having no discernable rifling is still a mystery.
FYI, Prior owner was commercial airline pilot and meticulous so even though it hung on the wall he kept it well tended outside since ownership in mid 1970's. I wiped it down and oiled barrel and run a brush and patch inside.
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The John Snyder I was refferring to was I believe , out of Heidelberg Township Lehigh County Pennsylvania. I am not 100% on that being maker of your gun. It looks similar to the rifles he made. If the patch box is a later addition then there is no merit to my guess as to maker. In my opinion this is not a 1780 /1810 rifle. I would guess your rifle would date 1820 's -1830's. I asked for the extra pictures to help in verifying the Lehigh connection and perhaps maker. There are certain characteristics that can help identify a rifle to the area ir was made and sometimes to a maker.
There were a large number of rifles made in this area ( Eastern Pa. ) that were smooth bore and sometimes reffered to as a buck and ball gun. Sometimes it takes a lot of research to identify a maker and you my never know.You do have a start. Lehigh County & time period .Someone making guns there between 1815-1840's . If the patch box is original to the gun that will be a big help in narrowing down a maker..Any new or parts not original to the rifle can't be used to I.D. It starts getting complicated but can be rewarding.Good lock in your search. Jim
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Thanks very much for your insight. Bob Roller had not addressed the added Lock pic as requested. I have M.M. Maslin as a merchant in Philadelphia, PA 1815-1852 with Maslin & Pepper, Importer & Dealers in Foreign & Domestic Hardware & Cutlery. Best Regards, Steve
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I have been bothered a lot recently by BPH and blood loss.That lock is a very basic mechanism and I made a bunch of them on the Chest Shoults external parts.There was a nearly identical one made by a man with the name of Cochran and I used his external parts as well.
The M.M.Maslin lock I made was small and apparently the moulds to produce it were made directly from a fine condition old one.As I recall,I think my versions of the Shoults/Cochran/Maslin had bridles with 2 screws at the top and incorporated the direct contact mainspring,Later ones had the linked mainsprings.These were good locks even if they did lack the sophistication of later locks.The Maslin shown here is the style I made for a good length of time.
Bob Roller
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Thank you, hope you are feeling better. So circa 1970's lock and one you did. I will note that
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I believe Bob is saying he made similar locks. His locks are marked Roller inside the lock plate and far better finished.
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I hope it is clear to everyone that it is a modern reproduction. Of course, I understand that experienced builders will recognize this. My comment is for the benefit of newer arrivals.
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The lock appears marked with a name just under the pan bolster, almost looks like "Hamm" from what I can see.
When we identify a lock as modern for newer collectors, or attribute an unsigned rifle to a known gunsmith, we can educate younger collectors and beginners if we take an extra minute or two to explain WHY it is a modern lock, or WHY it is attributed to a known gunmaker.
In this case for example, for new collectors we might point out areas to look at such as the fresh metal surfaces without years of oxidation and rust, modern machine-cut flat-bottomed screw head slots, minimal wear on working parts, top jaw screw with flat instead of pointed bottom, fine machining lines left on screw heads, sharp edges with no wear or small dings, "soft" edges on engraving on re-cast lock plates, etc. etc., so younger collectors will actually begin to learn what to look for when determining if a lock is old or new.
Same goes for attributing unsigned rifles, or even opinions on unsigned rifle, where just a couple comments on specific details that lead to the attribution can prove very helpful to newcomers. Even myself, as an advanced collector, would like to know at times what details others see that lead them to an attribution, since there is always room for learning a bit more about these great old rifles... or locks... or powder horns.
Shelby Gallien
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Oh! It is.
Russ Hamm.
(I revised my earlier comment where I had said it wasn't marked.)
There is a lot of info about Russ Hamm in this old thread.
https://www.americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=38515.0
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So, my research on Maslin
Michael Miller Maslin Bio:
Born 1789 in Kent Co, MD
Married 15 Sept 1810 to Eliza Sarah Mohler, York, PA
Died 8 Oct 1852 in Kent Co, MD
Buried 11 Oct 1852 in Philadelphia, PA in Laurel Hill Cemetery
US Passport issued to Michael M. Maslin, Age 26, on 6 Nov 1815
Noted M.M. Maslin on Ship manifest traveling back from Liverpool to USA on 28 Feb 1827, listed as Merchant.
Noted in 1845 under Importers & Dealers in Foreign and Domestic Hardware and Cutlery, Maslin & Pepper, 4 North Third St., Philadelphia. PA
Noted in PA Advertisement on 17 Mar 1845 under Hardware & Cutlery as Maslin & Pepper
Noted in PA Business Directory 1850-1851 as Hardware Importer under M. M. Maslin, Philadelphia City and County, PA
Noted in Federal Census (FC) 1830 in Baltimore, MD
Noted 1832 residence in Philadelphia, PA
Noted in 1840 FC in Philadelphia, PA
Noted in 1850 FC in Philadelphia, PA
One wonders if Maslin was a lock maker or just a merchant selling locks that were manufactured with his name for marketing purposes.
It appears now with HAMM stamped on his product it was available and still being used more contemporary. So I have Lehigh Co Long Rifle stock and barrel c.1820-1830 and HAMM lock.circa? I am in awe. Thanks all
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Unmarked locks were imported into America from Birmingham, England, in barrels in the late 18th and 19th centuries. The American businesses that imported locks would then stamp their name on the lock face, or sell them unstamped to hardware stores so those stores could stamp their names on them... all to make an import lock look more "American" to the purchaser.
Your lock is a modern copy of an earlier Maslin import lock that was produced plain and stamped "Maslin" when it got here. Most suppliers of modern black powder parts sell copies of original locks to make modern rifles look more realistic. You can Google/search "Russ Hamm" and probably get all the information you want on his modern reproduction locks like the one in your rifle and learn about when/where made.
Shelby Gallien
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Pure Speculation (warning! lots of weaselwords used! :)...the barrel appears to have been shortened by several inches. The middle ramrod thimbles were (generally!!) located approximately half way between the front one and the stock entrance. Also, the fit at the front of the lock plate to the stock and patent breech suggests that the patent breech was changed...probably when the barrel was shortened. The rounded feature at the muzzle suggests that the barrel was originally designed for an elongated "pickett" bullet rather than the more common round ball. And finally, the bore of the barrel was probably (!!) in the .36-.38 range and rifled with a much faster twist (~1/22") than a round ball rifle (~1/48). https://capandball.com/percussion-picket-rifle-by-r-m-wilder-and-the-early-target-shooting-in-the-united-states/ is a well written article describing a similar target rifle from roughly the same era. https://capandball.com/percussion-picket-rifle-by-r-m-wilder-and-the-early-target-shooting-in-the-united-states/ has some interesting discussions of target rifles, and includes a photo of the bullet starters needed to load thhe pickett bullet accurately and consistently.
Regards,
Richard
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Greybeard... seems like you might be talking about a different rifle than this one, perhaps the Ohio half-stock rifle on the thread below this one?
Shelby Gallien