AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Haulroad on September 01, 2025, 08:10:11 PM
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Hi, I used to have an account on here (IIRC) and my build is not working out due to my skill level with bedding the barrel into the wood. I say this to say it is totally my fault, and not the fantastic kit and support I have received on the phone.
I don’t want to give up but need to make a choice on a different way to proceed so that I am not buying nice stocks and then messing them up again.
Is there an easier kit that requires less fitting?
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Is there an easier kit that requires less fitting?
That depends on whose kit you messed up and your budget.
A Kibler kit is the easiest on the market AND I believe you can even purchase it "in the white" which is completely assembled requiring only that you complete the wood and metal finishing to have a finished rifle.
Sell your messed up kit here to recoup some of your expenses.
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Can you describe the problems you’re having? Most mistakes can be overcome.
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say where your from might be somebody close by that could help
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Hi, I used to have an account on here (IIRC) and my build is not working out due to my skill level with bedding the barrel into the wood. I say this to say it is totally my fault, and not the fantastic kit and support I have received on the phone.
I don’t want to give up but need to make a choice on a different way to proceed so that I am not buying nice stocks and then messing them up again.
Is there an easier kit that requires less fitting?
Add a post with specifics - which kit - what issue (include some pics). There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on here.
When you go to do the next kit get a Kibler and attend one of the Kibler rifle building classes that Southern Ohio Artisan Workshops puts on. ITs worth it. Helped me immensely.
Dr Phil
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Hi, I used to have an account on here (IIRC) and my build is not working out due to my skill level with bedding the barrel into the wood. I say this to say it is totally my fault, and not the fantastic kit and support I have received on the phone.
I don’t want to give up but need to make a choice on a different way to proceed so that I am not buying nice stocks and then messing them up again.
Is there an easier kit that requires less fitting?
Lets back up a just a smiggin.........
1: What do you have ? & from Where ?
2: Photo of the issue at hand.
3: Heck you may have someone Close that can help you, if you tell
us what city & state.
Details man details ;D ;)
DO NOT give up.
Keith
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I can give you seasoned advise on how NOT to epoxy-bed a barrel: be sure to use a reliable release agent, otherwise you’re barrel is glued in forever 🥺
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A lot of originals have a round bottom inlet for the barrel; I was going to go that route on my bear pistol to make things easier but bought a stock already perfectly inletted for the Rayl barrel that came with it.
The best thing I can recommend is to buy a barrel and stock blank then send it to Mark Weider for a perfect inletting job.
https://jmstockcompany.com/
I had a now retired expert named Fred Miller inlet the barrels and drill the ramrod hole in my first two builds, it sure made things easier for me.
Here is my fowler barrel and stock blank just back from Fred.
(https://i.ibb.co/0RC46QCb/inletted-by-Fred.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Nd9DJ79B)
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I can give you seasoned advise on how NOT to epoxy-bed a barrel: be sure to use a reliable release agent, otherwise you’re barrel is glued in forever 🥺
Use a heat gun wood blocks and patient tapping and it will release.
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I have had Mark & Fred inlet barrels & drill the RR holes for me. BOTH do superb work.
As for Bedding a barrel, I have done couple dozen of them. The KEY to it is preparation.
you want to do a fresh barrel with no inlets & no screw or pin holes or dovetails. If you
have inlets you fill the inlets & an void with modeling clay. Good THICK coat of Release agent.
When bedding has been done for 12 hrs, I put the rifle in the freezer for about a hour.
Then take it out, go to the carpeted floor, muzzle in the left hand, right hand at the
buttstock & I hold it about 6" from the floor & drop the butt on the floor. I do this til the
barrel comes loose & out. Usually 4-5 bumps & it is out.
One guy asked me one time "What if the wrist breaks ? " :o I said, Then you used a
POS stock & now you know better, ;D
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Never heard of using the freezer but it makes sense.
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Yes, the steel will contract, the wood does not. That pulls the metal from the
bedding. I came up with that idea years ago.
I change allot of roller bearings working on locomotives & locomotive parts. I
shrink & expand bearings on shafts & housing all the time to make them go on
easier, & not pull metal on the shafts & housings.
On day I walked pass the deep freeze with one & it hit me, same thing. Shrink the
metal from the wood & bedding. It worked.
But again, Preperation is MOST important. Taper that breechplug & tang. Fill the
holes if there is any. I fill the rear of the barrel flush with modeling clay. Those few
threads on that barrel even with breechplug in ? ??? Will lock that barrel IN. >:(
Fill it even with modeling clay & scrap it flush with a razor blade.
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Try and fix what you have. What ever the problem, there is usually a fix for it and the experience is worth the time put into it. That's the learning part.
You could ditch it and just back up and buy a Kibler Kit.
Fantastic kits. But they are so simple to assemble (and I applaud that!) that you likely would learn very little of what you are needing to learn to do the job when some real 'fitting' and adjustment is a stumbling block.
Plenty of help on these pages to be sure.
It's a rarity that something can't be saved in some acceptable final form so you don't have to hide it in the rafters of the garage from the friends & neighbors wandering eyes.
We all had to start somewhere!,,,and boy did we make mistakes and hit brick walls.
Not everyone had help so close by.
I sure didn't and my early attempts certainly showed it!!
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Heat the barrel with your wife’s iron till you can’t touch it then bump the butt on the floor a few times it will pop right out.
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I don’t mean to hijack the original question, but if an epoxied in barrel can be removed with heat I will be forever in debt to y’all 👌
(I’m imagining using a heat gun but unsure how to do it without scorching the stock)
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Heat the barrel with your wife’s iron till you can’t touch it then bump the butt on the floor a few times it will pop right out.
I'd imagine you could get an old iron from a thrift store without having to pay too much.
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The freezer is the method used by modern gunsmiths who sometimes but rarely glue one in.
It works.
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👌
(I’m imagining using a heat gun but unsure how to do it without scorching the stock)
Use a steel rod a little under bore size and a tad longer than the barrel and with one end rounded and smoothed. Heat it up with a torch and slide it into the barrel. It wil get the heat where it needs to be without risk of damaging the stock.
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Heat is going to cause the bedding compound to soften or melt. You do run the risk of burning the stock. Cold (freezing) causes two dissimilar substances (wood and metal) to contract at different rates.
With the freezing you don't run the risk of burning the stock, but care must be taken as a frozen stock can split if whacked too hard. (As can a room temp stock...but cold up's the chances)
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The bedding compound gets hot when curing. If it's not mixed properly I've seen it boil the release agent out. Oh wait I don't use bedding compound because my inletting is perfect LOL! At least it's better than it used to be. ;D
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Haulroad,
When I use bedding compounds, I use Johnsons paste wax and put a good coat on the metal parts going into the wood inlet. After the wax has dried, I use the release agent supplied with the bedding compound as directed. I haven't had any issues over the years.
Many years ago, I wanted to compete in center fire bench matches. I checked to see who was building the rifles that were built for the folks placing in the top ten in the sanctioned matches. I picked out one of the smiths and had him build me a 6ppc rifle. The guy building my rifle glued the action into a synthetic stock and floated the barrel. No issues over a period of 14 years. I wanted him to repaint the stock due to the normal use over the years. His process to get the barreled action out was to put the rifle in a freezer for a period of time, and the barreled action would be released from the bedding compound he originally used to glue the stock to the action. I would think the same procedure could be used in your instance. Good luck.
Roger Sells
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Haulroad…what kind of kit do you have?
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Sorry for the late reply. I got sick and have been resting trying to feel better! This is the excellent Kibler Colonial (58 smooth) which I bought a few years ago pre woodsrunner.
I took too much wood off the back. Rather than buying a new stock and exceeding my ability again at significant cost this will be getting sold. I need a simpler solution for muzzle loader season and also some time to improve my personal abilities on less costly projects.
I’m near Sparta NC/Galax VA and would be happy to pass this into someone’s skilled hands. Once I hit my 30 days this kit will be listed for a very quick sale price.
I appreciate all your replies, goes to show the quality of this community!
(https://i.ibb.co/Xfn825Vr/IMG-0152.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qLH5ygx3)
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It looks like the breech isn't set far enough back. I can see gaps between the breech and stock. I think everything just needs to be seated a bit better.
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While there are obvious errors, it doesn't appear that it's not fixable. And done right the fix would never be noticed.
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as tumbledown stated make sure your breech is flush with the back of the barrel channel . if it is you can heat red and peen [ from the underside] the tang to lengthen it.i just had to do that on a french tradegun i messed up a little. then refile to shape
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It looks like the breech isn't set far enough back. I can see gaps between the breech and stock. I think everything just needs to be seated a bit better.
Appears the case, in this "build" entirely.
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I think We need to back up & find out where the end of the breech plug s First.
Thus why on a Precarve, you inlet the lock 90% of the way. Then get the barrel
back where it needs to be.
But he is going to need to show us More photos & talk to us, as we are guessing.
Keith
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Reply 22, the OP says he's going to sell it.
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I know. I just hate to see someone give up.
Keith
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I know. I just hate to see someone give up.
Keith
I feel the same as Keith.
When I was in my thirties trying to learn this (and I still have a lot to learn) I messed up a lot. I corrected mistakes here and there as I could and most projects made it to completion, but along the way three maple blanks went into the firewood bin because at that point in life I was so perfectionistic that I couldn't tolerate my mistakes. One of those was because I messed up the inlet for the buttplate top return. One was because was trying to cut a 3" blank with a bandsaw too small for the job, had drawn my cut line with no margin at all, and the blade underneath followed the grain rather than the line I was following on the top, and when I finished the cut and flipped the stock over, I had a wavy line well inside the line. The third was because I forgot to put a chamfer on a breachplug and tang, and then couldn't get them inlet without leaving gaps (similar to what the OP has here). I couldn't stand the frustration, so I discarded them each time and started over. Oh, there was also a walnut pistol stock. I was trying to angle the groove and rod hole away from the lock, but got mixed up and drilled it into the lock area. When I inlet the lock the mistake became very apparent. Started over.
To some extent, these mistakes were because I was learning on my own, had no mentor at that time to warn me of the potholes and pitfalls, but that's not my point right now. My point is that now I'm in my 60s, and I've learned a little more. I still have high expectations, but I've learned to be more forgiving of myself and more gracious with my humanity.
At this point, I would say stay stick with those first few guns all the way through, even if it meant gluing on big chunks of wood, even if it meant a whole patchwork of glued on wood. Learning to fix stuff and repair mistakes is part of the game, and you might was well learn it all together. If, having completed a patchwork rifle, you sometime later want to go back and restock it, then have at it. But let that first one or two or three be what they are and don't stress about it. There is only one way to get experience, and this is supposed to be fun.
Anyway, that may be more philosophical rambling than the OP or any of the rest of you guys wanted, but maybe it will be of use to someone.
Whetrock
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Haulroad,
I seriously doubt you failed. It would appear you only gave up. If those gaps are the only problem you are facing, the gaps can be easily fixed. And, it will only take a, relatively, little time. IMHO, there are very few mistakes that can't be fixed, and the folks on this forum are very knowledgeable in those regards. You commented that you removed too much wood, at the breech. The shipping container has a couple of supports made of maple that can be used to fill those inletting gaps. If you removed too much wood, simply glue in a couple of "spacers," to fill the gaps, and re-inlet the breech and tang. If done properly, the patch pieces won't be easily seen, once the stock is finished. a search of the forum, will reveal threads on filling inletting gaps.
I assume you are assembling this kit on your own, with no help from knowledgeable friends. If that is the case, American Pioneer Videos has an instructional DVD on Assembling Kentucky Rifles from Kits, that might provide information you can use.
https://www.muzzleloadermagazine.com/index.php
main_page=product_info&cPath=61&products_id=354 (https://www.muzzleloadermagazine.com/index.php
main_page=product_info&cPath=61&products_id=354)
Bill Raby has a series of detailed rifle building videos on Rumble that might help, too.
https://rumble.com/search/all?q=Lancaster%20Rifle%20build (https://rumble.com/search/all?q=Lancaster%20Rifle%20build)
I encourage you to endeavor to persevere with this kit. Even if it comes out bad, you will, at the very least, learn more than a few lessons in assembling longrifles, and quite possibly, have a nice shooting rifle, in the end. By giving up, you won't learn anything.
J.D.