AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Sherrell on September 27, 2025, 08:44:25 PM
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A friend who knows I like old rifles sent me this picture of the cap lock on a gun of his.
Can anyone identify the maker and likely date of this lock?
Rounded rear and front plate contour.
Four pheasants on the left (rear) end of the plate.
Flora engraving motif up the hammer arm.
Some illegible lettering arching horizontally across the plate below the nipple extension.
More engraving around the front pin.
(I’m also curious about the possibility this isn’t the original lock given the generous inletting gap around the front of the plate.)
I know someone out there must know (but I didn’t tell my friend that. SMILE)
Tks,
Sherrell
(https://i.ibb.co/jv4Vyq68/IMG-6760.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XZJy762W)
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That sure looks like a later Golcher design. If others agree and can support it as such, you'll find plenty of information on the Golchers here.
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I'm thinking the same thing. The remaining traces of the lettering seem to match up with the lettering on a lock marked for Joseph Golcher.
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Certainly looks like a Golcher.
If it isn't the original lock, the one it replaced was very much the same. These locks were sold in large quantities and were widely used.
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(I’m also curious about the possibility this isn’t the original lock given the generous inletting gap around the front of the plate.)
Yes, the gap at the front of the lock suggests that it is not the original lock, but it may have been on there during the working life of the gun.
Gaps around the drum can result from a replacement, but also from a barrel having been cut at the breech, which was a common repair for excessive corrosion. They cut off an inch or two at the breech and slid the barrel back. This is usually indicated by having more than one set of barrel pin holes. And sometimes the drum then didn't fit as well has it had before.
On the two in this photo, the top one is probably an original lock. Note that it has even wear around the edges of the mortise. The bottom one is probably a replacement, loose on the back and with shims nailed in along the bottom, in use in the working life of the gun. Note that it has more wear along the edge of the mortise in the rear. The barrels were cut and moved back on both of these guns.
(https://i.ibb.co/vxMRrN7r/IMG-6793.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GvrN1ZK1)
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Looks very much like a Golcher based on roll engraving and overall appearance. This appears to be a replacement lock that reasonably fit the old mortise. Note the gap on the nose of the lock, where the original lock was about 1/8th inch longer. The somewhat "sloppy" cutout in the lock plate for the percussion drum, or side lug, suggest a replacement lock as well, since the original would have been a much snugger, cleaner fit.
When a lock is replaced and the new lock is slightly larger, the mortise is opened up slightly to accommodate it and lock is a good fit in that area, which may have happened on the back end of the lock. But when the replacement lock is slightly smaller in some area, such as the nose area on this lock, that part of the old mortise is left open/visible as in this case.
Shelby Gallien
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The only other thing he told me about the gun is that the barrel is 47 inches long and it’s a full stock. So I’m guessing the barrel hasn’t been cut...
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47 is long, so, yeah, it may have escaped being cut.
If it was cut at the breech you can expect to see two sets of pin holes for the lug pins. Sometimes the empty ones will have had a piece of wood glued in, as this one here (photo) but the original position is usually still visible. According to the pin holes, this one was moved back 1.3 inches. (Muzzle is to the left in this photo.) It had a sheet metal muzzle cap, which was just moved back. With poured caps (lead or pewter), the gunsmith doing the repair often just sawed through the lead as necessary and sometimes didn't do anything more.
Guns that have full length barrels are often valued a bit higher than those that have been cut, but being cut doesn't ruin one, either. Mountain rifles were used heavily, and the percussion caps were corrosive, so it's very common for percussion mountain rifles to have cut at least once. Barrels were also sometimes cut at the muzzle.
(https://i.ibb.co/yn2mTdSY/IMG-6798.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Jhxcj4R)
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Tks Whetrock.
Very interesting and educational.
I’ll convey this information to him.
One thing I was wondering - based on what you see in that picture, is there any chance that gun was long ago converted from flintlock?
What are the telltale signs of a flint-to-cap conversion?
I’m a newbie.
Please tutor me.
Cheers and tks again.
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When you are looking at a second lock in a gun, the conversion question is on shaky ground. If the gun originally had a flintlock, you need to look for other telltale signs rather than the current lock. Does the lock mortise show a possible tailed lock plate in the gun before the current round-tailed lock? Is there a vent pick hole in the toe of the gun, or any hint of a vent pick holder below the cheekpiece? Does the stock appear to have a small "clearance" cutout in the stock above the top edge of the lock for flint cock clearance... not there, but some late original flints used a double-throat "military style" cock that didn't use a clearance cut there.
The current lock was never a flint, always a percussion lock. Had it been flint, there would be a couple of plugged small holes for the frizzen spring and the frizzen pivot, but they are not there. Some conversions also retain a trace of the flash pan where the drum cutout is, but nothing on this lock. Also telling is the complete double-line border running around the current lock that is not interrupted where a frizzen spring would have been attached. Most flints interrupt that molding for a short distance in that area.
Shelby Gallien
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Although every owner of an original gun wants to know the origin and maker of the lock, in the case of later percussion guns that information seldom leads us to answers of the questions, “who made it (or sold it) and where?” There are exceptions, where the stamp on the lock can be traced to a purveyor of gunmaker. Adolphus Meier, for example, tied to specific years in St. Louis, Missouri. But a Golcher lock could be used on guns from the east coast to California and many places in between.